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Thread: Is believing/faith a work ?

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    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
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    Is believing/faith a work ?

    The answer is absolutely yes. If we agree with the overall definition of work according to the greek word for work ergon:

    See strongs # 2041:


    1. business, employment, that which any one is occupied

      1. that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

    2. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind


    3. an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

      A work is anything done, accomplished by #1 hand, #2 art, #3 industry, #4 or MIND

      The mind is :

      (in a human or other conscious being) the element, part, substance, or process that reasons, thinks, feels, wills, perceives, judges, etc.

      Psychology. the totality of conscious and unconscious mental processes and activities.

      So believing something via the mental activity and process of reasoning is work. The process of decision making is a activity, work of the mind.

      Now for instance, the sin of hatred Gal 5:19-20


      Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,


      20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

      How is that sin committed ? It starts in the mind or heart ! Yet in Vs 19 its stated as an work of the flesh

      So activity in and with the mind/heart is a work, this cannot be denied..

      Now believing is either a work of the flesh [unregenerate] or of the Spirit [ regenerated]

      But now Salvation is not by works, Neither by works of the flesh or works of the Spirit.


    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    LIFETIME MEMBER Bright Raven's Avatar
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    No! Absolutely not!

    Ephesians 2:8-9 New International Version (NIV)

    8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

    You are out of context! The author says we are saved by grace through faith, not of works. If it is not of works, how can faith be a work?
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    No! Absolutely not!

    Ephesians 2:8-9 New International Version (NIV)

    8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

    You are out of context! The author says we are saved by grace through faith, not of works. If it is not of works, how can faith be a work?
    why are you arguing with b57?

    He believes the way you do.

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    LIFETIME MEMBER Bright Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meshak View Post
    why are you arguing with b57?

    He believes the way you do.
    No he doesn't. He is a Hyper-Calvinist who believes in election with no room for free-will. I believe in free-will, not election.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    No he doesn't. He is a Hyper-Calvinist who believes in election with no room for free-will. I believe in free-will, not election.
    but He believes in faith only like you do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by meshak View Post
    but He believes in faith only like you do.
    He believes that we have no choice in the matter of our salvation. That is not the way I believe.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    BR, this thread is not about free will.

    He does not believe in producing fruit is core of salvation.

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    LIFETIME MEMBER Bright Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meshak View Post
    BR, this thread is not about free will.

    He does not believe in producing fruit is core of salvation.
    Sure is when you talk about salvation.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    His purpose of this thread is the same as your claim.

    I showed him Jesus' salvation account of Samaritan.

    that's what prompted him to start this thread.

    So you should be in good company with him.

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    b57's faith is very much like yours. So is Robert Pate.

    He does not believe in Jesus' word, like most of you.

    That's what happens when you follow man's doctrine.

    You guys' core belief is the same but bickering to no end.

    my goodness.

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    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
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    So if one says God saved me because of my believing/ faith

    Then congratulations you are boasting about God saved you by your works !


    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    The answer is absolutely yes. If we agree with the overall definition of work according to the greek word for work ergon:

    See strongs # 2041:


    1. business, employment, that which any one is occupied
      1. that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

    2. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

    3. an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

      A work is anything done, accomplished by #1 hand, #2 art, #3 industry, #4 or MIND

      The mind is :

      (in a human or other conscious being) the element, part, substance, or process that reasons, thinks, feels, wills, perceives, judges, etc.

      Psychology. the totality of conscious and unconscious mental processes and activities.

      So believing something via the mental activity and process of reasoning is work. The process of decision making is a activity, work of the mind.

      Now for instance, the sin of hatred Gal 5:19-20


      Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,


      20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

      How is that sin committed ? It starts in the mind or heart ! Yet in Vs 19 its stated as an work of the flesh

      So activity in and with the mind/heart is a work, this cannot be denied..

      Now believing is either a work of the flesh [unregenerate] or of the Spirit [ regenerated]

      But now Salvation is not by works, Neither by works of the flesh or works of the Spirit.


    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    So if one says God saved me because of my believing/ faith

    Then congratulations you are boasting about God saved you by your works !
    Context, context, context. Forgot the rest of the verse didn't you! "So that no one can boast".
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    So if one says God saved me because of my believing/ faith

    Then congratulations you are boasting about God saved you by your works !
    Which banana would you choose of these two and why?

    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Romans 4:5 KJV But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith

    Faith is contrasted....

    "but"


    ....with work=opposites.


    But that won't stop a Calvinist/Clavinist from perverting it, denying it, as they do with most of the book.


    Leave thread starter bedeviled666 be-all he does is "Deny....Deny...Deny...."
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    So if one says God saved me because of my believing/ faith

    Then congratulations you are boasting about God saved you by your works !

    Absolutely !

    It's only once a person has been Given a New Heart is he made able to perform the actions described here:

    Rom. 10:9-10
    That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


    Ezk. 36:26-27
    A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 37 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

    Belief / Faith in Christ is the fruit of being Given a New Heart / New Birth Gal. 5:22.

    John 3:27
    John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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