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Thread: Did God Design All Of Creation To Suffer As A Result Of The 'Fall'?

  1. #31
    TOL Legend Arthur Brain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    Yes, for me. Some people think it's a story to help us understand evil and good.
    How "Evil" were Adam and Eve exactly? Why on earth should an indiscretion on their part condemn all humanity and all other living things as well?
    Well this is fun isn't it?


  2. #32
    TOL Subscriber patrick jane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    Tell that to someone grieving or dying from lack of food. Put things in perspective PJ, or at least try to.
    I know all we can have is the hope of glory, Christ in us. I struggled with these things for years and asked God why Lord. It's all part of a bigger plan. My computer monitor just went belly up. I heard a noise like static, then a crackle, then it went black . I won't be able to look up anymore scriptures but I have my Bible if I want to. I remembered this one.

    Colossians 1:27-28 KJV- To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Whom we preach, warning every man, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.
    .

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    1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -


    Colossians 1:13-14 KJV - Colossians 1:15-16 KJV - Colossians 1:17-18 KJV -

    Colossians 1:19-20 KJV - Colossians 1:21-22 KJV - Colossians 1:23 KJV -

    Colossians 1:25-26 KJV 27, 28, 29 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Ephesians 1:12-13, 14 -



  3. #33
    TOL Legend Arthur Brain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    I know all we can have is the hope of glory, Christ in us. I struggled with these things for years and asked God why Lord. It's all part of a bigger plan. My computer monitor just went belly up. I heard a noise like static, then a crackle, then it went black . I won't be able to look up anymore scriptures but I have my Bible if I want to. I remembered this one.

    Colossians 1:27-28 KJV- To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Whom we preach, warning every man, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.
    .

    Sent from my SM-J327T using Tapatalk
    Hey, sorry to hear about the monitor, hope you manage to get it fixed soon bud.
    Well this is fun isn't it?


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    Over 6000 post club intojoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    So, Adam and Eve transgress by eating an apple from a forbidden tree and as a result, not only do all human descendants get 'infected' by sin but the whole of nature gets struck with suffering, disease and death as well?
    Was that hard to understand?


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    Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    What about kindness, a friendly word, support, empathy etc, support during someone's pain and suffering etc? Sure, human's have the capacity for such and aren't reduced to mere instinct for the most part but then that isn't what this thread is about although instinct still plays a significant part in life. What about human casualties because of this "fall"? Children born with cancers, severely disabled and with painful conditions? Those unfortunate to be born in areas with severe malnutrition etc? Why? Once again, why extend this to the whole of nature also? Why is there suffering throughout? That was the plan?
    It's all to give you something to complain about. If you weren't moaning all the time, perhaps you'd have no choice but to realize your need for the Savior.

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    Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    How "Evil" were Adam and Eve exactly? Why on earth should an indiscretion on their part condemn all humanity and all other living things as well?
    It didn't.

    Men will be held to account for their own words and actions; they are not condemned because of the deeds of others.

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  11. #37
    TOL Legend Arthur Brain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intojoy View Post
    Was that hard to understand?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Dude, do us both a favor and don't bother responding to the thread anymore. I've zero respect for your "opinions" and likely vice versa. Chances are you'll crass out before long anyway.
    Well this is fun isn't it?


  12. #38
    TOL Legend Arthur Brain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    It didn't.

    Men will be held to account for their own words and actions; they are not condemned because of the deeds of others.
    That includes you dude, everything you've said, every little thing...

    Why does the rest of creation need to suffer because of man's folly?
    Well this is fun isn't it?


  13. #39
    TOL Legend Arthur Brain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    It's all to give you something to complain about. If you weren't moaning all the time, perhaps you'd have no choice but to realize your need for the Savior.
    Nope.

    Thanks for the irony though.

    "Creationists" say the "Darwinist" things...

    Well this is fun isn't it?


  14. #40
    TOL Subscriber patrick jane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    Then tell me what you think Patrick? Is there a loving God out there who designed this world with full knowledge that humanity would screw up and had a back up plan where all of creation suffered for the inevitable backlash for such failure?
    He loves us so much He sent His only Son to dies for us, so that we can return yo God. We don't know when but Jesus Christ will return to be with us again and rule. That whole story is in Revelation. We ask h long Lord. Please come Lord. I found another monitor in the back room. I'k back up.

    John 3:16 KJV - For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Romans 5 - KJV - Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:2By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
    3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
    4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
    5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
    6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
    7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
    8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
    9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
    10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
    11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
    12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
    13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
    14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
    15But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
    16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
    17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
    18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
    19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
    20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
    21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

    Revelation 22:20 KJV - He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
    1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -


    Colossians 1:13-14 KJV - Colossians 1:15-16 KJV - Colossians 1:17-18 KJV -

    Colossians 1:19-20 KJV - Colossians 1:21-22 KJV - Colossians 1:23 KJV -

    Colossians 1:25-26 KJV 27, 28, 29 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Ephesians 1:12-13, 14 -



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  16. #41
    TOL Subscriber patrick jane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    How "Evil" were Adam and Eve exactly? Why on earth should an indiscretion on their part condemn all humanity and all other living things as well?
    Any sin at all cannot enter the presence of God. Since we are all sinners, we need a Savior, that's Jesus Christ. The sins of the world were paid for so that we CAN enter into His presence in the end. Belief is the key. We are justified by faith.

    Revelation 21:4-6 KJV - And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
    6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
    1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -


    Colossians 1:13-14 KJV - Colossians 1:15-16 KJV - Colossians 1:17-18 KJV -

    Colossians 1:19-20 KJV - Colossians 1:21-22 KJV - Colossians 1:23 KJV -

    Colossians 1:25-26 KJV 27, 28, 29 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Ephesians 1:12-13, 14 -



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    Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    That includes you dude, everything you've said, every little thing.
    Uh huh.

    Why does the rest of creation need to suffer because of man's folly?
    Pass. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe God could magically suspend consequences when it comes to animals.

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    Over 6000 post club intojoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    Dude, do us both a favor and don't bother responding to the thread anymore. I've zero respect for your "opinions" and likely vice versa. Chances are you'll crass out before long anyway.
    No, this is good. It proves my theology bro. Because if an unbeliever can read scripture literally and understand it literally, the MADists doctrine goes up in smoke. So what was your problem my son? Was it what scripture clearly said or was it what it said?


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    Quote Originally Posted by intojoy View Post
    No, this is good. It proves my theology bro. Because if an unbeliever can read scripture literally and understand it literally, the MADists doctrine goes up in smoke. So what was your problem my son? Was it what scripture clearly said or was it what it said? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Psst. Brain hates the Bible.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    When the world is a monster
    Bad to swallow you whole
    Kick the clay that holds the teeth in
    Throw your trolls out the door

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.


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  22. #45
    Over 2000 post club WatchmanOnTheWall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    So, Adam and Eve transgress by eating an apple from a forbidden tree and as a result, not only do all human descendants get 'infected' by sin but the whole of nature gets struck with suffering, disease and death as well?
    So? You think that's unfair? That's because you do not know what really happened and is happening but then most people don't.

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