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Thread: Limited atonement !

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    Limited atonement !

    The truth of limited atonement is vital to the Christian Gospel, there's no Gospel without it. See 1 Cor 15:3. It refers specifically to the Death of Christ on the Cross, which death fully satisfied the law and justice of God for not all human beings but only for a certain group, the elect of God, Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.

    Now let's get one thing understood, when i speak of limited atonement, i don't mean by any means that Christ atoning death is limited in its power, but that its limited in that it doesn't cover or apply to everyone, but only applies to and covers the elect or chosen of God or the Church of God in Christ, or Gods Sheep.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    The truth of limited atonement is vital to the Christian Gospel, there's no Gospel without it. See 1 Cor 15:3. It refers specifically to the Death of Christ on the Cross, which death fully satisfied the law and justice of God for not all human beings but only for a certain group, the elect of God, Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.

    Now let's get one thing understood, when i speak of limited atonement, i don't mean by any means that Christ atoning death is limited in its power, but that its limited in that it doesn't cover or apply to everyone, but only applies to and covers the elect or chosen of God or the Church of God in Christ, or Gods Sheep.

    Amen Brother!

    Christ's Atonement was limited to only those who He had a Union with from Everlasting Eph. 1:4-5 as their Covenant Head and Surety Heb. 7:22; their sins were imputed to Christ and His Righteousness imputed to them Rom. 4:7-8: There had to be a Union with Christ for Him to take their sins upon Himself legally Heb. 9:16-17.

    2 Cor. 5:21
    For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

    So, the "our sins" of 1 Cor. 15:3 are exclusive to God's Elect for whom Christ was made sin in behalf of.

    Rom. 5:19b
    so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    Is. 53:10-11
    10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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    Nanja

    There had to be a Union with Christ for Him to take their sins upon Himself legally Heb. 9:16-17.
    Absolutely, a legal union it was and had to be. Which Union constitutes one being in Christ. So technically speaking we must be in Christ before He could have legally died for us !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Nanja



    Absolutely, a legal union it was and had to be. Which Union constitutes one being in Christ. So technically speaking we must be in Christ before He could have legally died for us !

    So true, and that's proof that Christ's atonement was Limited to God's elect or His Sheep, for the goats were always cursed:

    Mat. 25:41, 46
    Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand [goats] Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous [Sheep] into life eternal.
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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    Limited atonement is taught plainly in scripture !

    Even though the natural man will attempt to explain away the truth of God as to who Christ specifically came to saved through His blood, yet the testimony of God is true and all men liars.

    That Christs death is limited to only a certain segment of men is seen here , a clear statement limiting the recipients of His Death, the Angelic heavenly testimony here Matt 1:20-21

    20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.


    21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

    His People here is another way of saying His Elect/Sheep !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    The truth of limited atonement is vital to the Christian Gospel
    To understand how atonement is limited, it is important to look at the Old Testament that speaks about the atonement.

    Leviticus 23:27-29
    27 Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord.
    28 And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the Lord your God.
    29 For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people.


    The priest does a lot of work on the day of atonement, but only those who take part in the ceremony and afflict themselves on the day appointed will get atonement, no matter how much work the priest does.
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    To understand how atonement is limited, it is important to look at the Old Testament that speaks about the atonement.

    Leviticus 23:27-29
    27 Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord.
    28 And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the Lord your God.
    29 For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people.


    The priest does a lot of work on the day of atonement, but only those who take part in the ceremony and afflict themselves on the day appointed will get atonement, no matter how much work the priest does.
    Rabbit trail !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Rabbit trail !
    God gave us the entire Bible to help us understand what He wants from us.
    He wants us to love Him with the libertarian free-will He gave us.
    If we do not choose to love Him from our own free-will, He will not grant us atonement.
    He provides atonement for all.
    Atonement is only limited by whether people will choose to partake of that atonement or not.
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Another passage of scripture that evidences the range of the death of Christ Jn 10:11,15

    11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

    15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.


    Now Christ Sheep and His People are One and the same. Lets look at a Psalm for proof Ps 100:3

    3 Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

    And since scripture evidences that some of His Sheep are non jews/gentiles by Jn 10:16

    16 And other sheep[gentiles] I have, which are not of this[jewish] fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

    Then its spiritually logical that His People in Matt 1:21 are not all of the jewish fold but also from among the gentile fold. Thats what James meant here Acts 15:14

    14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    God gave us the entire Bible to help us understand what He wants from us.
    He wants us to love Him with the libertarian free-will He gave us.
    If we do not choose to love Him from our own free-will, He will not grant us atonement.
    He provides atonement for all.
    Atonement is only limited by whether people will choose to partake of that atonement or not.
    More rabbit trail !

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    Atonement
    A Payment owed to reconcile us back to God.
    Rom 5:8-12
    8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
    9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
    10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
    11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
    12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
    (KJV)
    Atonement
    2643 katallage (kat-al-lag-ay');

    from 2644; exchange (figuratively, adjustment), i.e. restoration to (the divine) favor:

    KJV-- atonement, reconciliation (-ing).

    Reconciliation
    2643 katallage (kat-al-lag-ay');

    from 2644; exchange (figuratively, adjustment), i.e. restoration to (the divine) favor:

    KJV-- atonement, reconciliation (-ing).

    I have always seen the problem with people is the fact they don't know what the words mean. Now at the end of the old testament there were afew hundred years between the old testament and the new testament. And I see the atonement or reconciliation as opening communications again with God. And Jesus made the Way. The new testament. And because God sent Jesus to do that it reveals Gods grace to us.
    Now within that grace the law of Christ is how we communicate again.

    Rom 3:25-26
    25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
    26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
    (NKJ)

    I Jn 4:10-15
    10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
    11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
    12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us.
    13 By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.
    14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world.
    15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
    (NKJ)

    I Jn 2:2-4
    2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
    3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
    4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
    (NKJ)


    2434 hilasmos (hil-as-mos');

    atonement, i.e. (concretely) an expiator:

    KJV-- propitiation.

    [Jhn 6:65
    65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."
    [Jhn 6:44
    44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Limited atonement is taught plainly in scripture !

    Even though the natural man will attempt to explain away the truth of God as to who Christ specifically came to saved through His blood, yet the testimony of God is true and all men liars.

    That Christs death is limited to only a certain segment of men is seen here , a clear statement limiting the recipients of His Death, the Angelic heavenly testimony here Matt 1:20-21

    20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.


    21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

    His People here is another way of saying His Elect/Sheep !

    Amen ! And the People that Christ came to save from their sins Mat. 1:21 is also referred to in scripture as the Seed of Abraham.

    Heb. 2:16-17
    For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

    They are a specific seed, the Children given to Christ in Election Eph. 1:4-5; Heb. 2:13; John 10:29, exclusive to the Elect World, the Seed of mankind He was made an offering for sin:

    Is. 53:10-11
    Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

    Rom. 4:16
    Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all [all the seed of Abraham, the Seed of Christ Gal. 3:16, 29].
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanja View Post
    Amen ! And the People that Christ came to save from their sins Mat. 1:21 is also referred to in scripture as the Seed of Abraham.

    Heb. 2:16-17
    For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

    They are a specific seed, the Children given to Christ in Election Eph. 1:4-5; Heb. 2:13; John 10:29, exclusive to the Elect World, the Seed of mankind He was made an offering for sin:

    Is. 53:10-11
    Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

    Rom. 4:16
    Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all [all the seed of Abraham, the Seed of Christ Gal. 3:16, 29].
    Amen Sister !

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    Jesus prayer indicates limited atonement !


    Jn 17:9

    9I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.


    10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

    Now why did Christ refuse to pray for everyone ? Because all were not His that had been given to Him by His Father like His Sheep had been Jn 10:27-30


    27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
    28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
    29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

    The same as in Jn 17 :2

    As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

    Since Christ didnt pray for them, then He didnt die for them as He did His Sheep !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    The same as in Jn 17 :2

    As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

    Since Christ didnt pray for them, then He didnt die for them as He did His Sheep !
    Since Christ was given power over all flesh, He is able to give eternal life to all flesh, but Jesus has chosen to only give it to those who give honor and praise to God.
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
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