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Thread: Why Evolution is real science - let's settle this "debate"!

  1. #46
    Over 5000 post club 6days's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Fly
    So wait.....are you actually agreeing that natural processes such as mutations can generate very complex biochemical pathways, biological structures, and life strategies?
    Mutations degrade the pre-existing genetic information.

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    genuineoriginal (February 13th, 2018),JudgeRightly (February 13th, 2018)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post


    I wouldn't word it like Brain did, but it's not overtly incorrect. However, like a typical Darwinist, he forgot the therefore.

    He went on a rant and it looks like he's relying on an unspoken narrative to create the illusion of a point.

    He didn't make a point, so there's nothing to debate. It's just a disconnected opinion.
    I would disagree, but I thank you for the conversation instead of emoticons

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    Arthur Brain (February 13th, 2018)

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    Over 4000 post club Jose Fly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6days View Post
    Mutations degrade the pre-existing genetic information.
    Then where did the "genetic information" that allows the plasmodium parasite to cause malaria come from?
    "The way to deal with superstition is not to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous." --H.L. Mencken

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Jennings View Post
    I would disagree, but I thank you for the conversation instead of emoticons

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Fly View Post
    Here's a tip.....localized decreases in entropy are not only common, but pretty much necessary. You should understand thermodynamics before trying to cite it in an argument.
    Buy a clue or buy a dictionary
    entropy
    1. thermodynamic quantity representing the unavailability of a system's thermal energy for conversion into mechanical work, often interpreted as the degree of disorder or randomness in the system.
    2. lack of order or predictability; gradual decline into disorder.
    Learn to read what is written.

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    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Over 4000 post club Jose Fly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Buy a clue or buy a dictionary
    entropy
    1. thermodynamic quantity representing the unavailability of a system's thermal energy for conversion into mechanical work, often interpreted as the degree of disorder or randomness in the system.
    2. lack of order or predictability; gradual decline into disorder.
    So if everything always heads towards disorder, how does chemistry work? How can more ordered and complex molecules form from less ordered and less complex elements?
    "The way to deal with superstition is not to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous." --H.L. Mencken

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Fly View Post
    So if everything always heads towards disorder, how does chemistry work? How can more ordered and complex molecules form from less ordered and less complex elements?
    Such as?
    Learn to read what is written.

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    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Buy a clue or buy a dictionary
    entropy
    1. thermodynamic quantity representing the unavailability of a system's thermal energy for conversion into mechanical work, often interpreted as the degree of disorder or randomness in the system.
    2. lack of order or predictability; gradual decline into disorder.
    gradual decline into disorder

    (Biblical)

    (Not saying everything declines into disorder)

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Such as?
    Are you not familiar with chemistry? I'll give a simple example....a water molecule, made via the bonding of two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom, is in a lower state of disorder than two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom that are free and unbonded.

    How can that be if everything always tends towards greater disorder?
    "The way to deal with superstition is not to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous." --H.L. Mencken

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Fly View Post
    Are you not familiar with chemistry? I'll give a simple example....a water molecule, made via the bonding of two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom, is in a lower state of disorder than two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom that are free and unbonded.

    How can that be if everything always tends towards greater disorder?
    How To Make Water from Hydrogen and Oxygen
    In theory, it's extremely easy to make water from hydrogen gas and oxygen gas. Simply mix the two gases together, add a spark or sufficient heat to provide the activation energy to start the reaction, and presto!


    Instant water. Merely mixing the two gases together at room temperature won't do anything. Energy must be supplied to break the covalent bonds that hold H2 and O2 molecules together. When the chemical bonds reform to make water, additional energy is released, which propagates the reaction. The net reaction is highly exothermic.

    Try making water without additional energy to start the reaction.
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThisIsMyUserName View Post
    IMPORTANT:
    The purpose here is solely to talk about science - not about faith, philosophy, theology or ethics or anything else unrelated.
    I think you're in the wrong place.

    This is under the Religion heading.

  14. #57
    Over 4000 post club Jose Fly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Try making water without additional energy to start the reaction.
    Exactly! As long as there's an input of energy, localized decreases in entropy can occur. So the answer to your question: "Is life defying entropy by creating more and more complexity in every generation due to random mutations?"...

    ...is "no" (it's also a straw man, as no one is saying life becomes more complex with every generation).
    "The way to deal with superstition is not to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous." --H.L. Mencken

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    Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Fly View Post
    Exactly! As long as there's an input of energy, localized decreases in entropy can occur.
    We've been over this numerous times.

    If you think evolution involves a decrease in entropy, explain the process by which this happens.

    Where does the energy come from?
    How is it converted into genetic information?

    Remember not to use evolution as the explanation.

    So the answer to your question: "Is life defying entropy by creating more and more complexity in every generation due to random mutations?"....is "no" (it's also a straw man, as no one is saying life becomes more complex with every generation).
    Darwinism requires the progression from simple to complex. It's no straw man at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    If you think evolution involves a decrease in entropy, explain the process by which this happens.
    By standard evolutionary mechanisms, as illustrated by the paper I linked to earlier that described the observed transition from single-celled organisms to multicellular organisms.

    Where does the energy come from?
    Lol! You don't know where the earth's energy comes from? Here's a hint...it's that big yellow ball in the sky.

    How is it converted into genetic information?
    Mutation.

    Remember not to use evolution as the explanation.
    Lol....don't cite evolutionary mechanisms to explain how evolution occurs. Riiiiiiiiiight.

    Darwinism requires the progression from simple to complex. It's no straw man at all.
    Not with every generation. Duh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Fly View Post
    Don't cite evolutionary mechanisms to explain how evolution occurs.
    Exactly.

    It's called circular reasoning.

    You uphold the progression from slime to people by means of random mutations and natural selection. The challenge to this from entropy requires you to explain the mechanism that converts energy from the sun into genetic information. Reasserting your assumption is circular reasoning.

    The problem is that Darwinsm relies on randomness, which can never produce anything but noise.

    Not with every generation.
    And yet, evolution requires upward progression of complexity.

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    way 2 go (February 14th, 2018)

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