User Tag List

Page 2 of 31 FirstFirst 1234512 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 465

Thread: Why Evolution is real science - let's settle this "debate"!

  1. #16
    Over 4000 post club Jose Fly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    4,252
    Thanks
    42
    Thanked 611 Times in 440 Posts

    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    196950
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    The need to prey on organisms other than plants would have come after the Fall, not before it. Yes, even the mosquito.
    So how did all the biochemical pathways and biological structures that these organisms require to cause all that death and suffering come to be? If it wasn't evolution, what was it?
    "The way to deal with superstition is not to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous." --H.L. Mencken

  2. #17
    Over 500 post club SUTG's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Cole Valley, CA
    Posts
    723
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 70 Times in 39 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    31547
    This debate was over 150 years ago.

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to SUTG For Your Post:

    Greg Jennings (February 13th, 2018)

  4. #18
    Over 4000 post club Jose Fly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    4,252
    Thanks
    42
    Thanked 611 Times in 440 Posts

    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    196950
    Let's take an obvious example....the parasite that causes malaria, a disease that has killed millions upon millions upon millions of humans. Here is the life cycle of the parasite:



    Pretty complex, right? Now, if we assume the creationists' argument that evolutionary mechanisms cannot generate complexity, and complexity only comes from "intelligence" (which to most creationists means God), what obvious conclusion must we reach under those parameters?
    "The way to deal with superstition is not to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous." --H.L. Mencken

  5. #19
    Gold level Subscriber JudgeRightly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    On the road
    Posts
    7,432
    Thanks
    24,147
    Thanked 6,830 Times in 4,291 Posts

    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147603
    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Fly View Post
    So how did all the biochemical pathways and biological structures that these organisms require to cause all that death and suffering come to be? If it wasn't evolution, what was it?
    Breakdown and loss of information. God designed, say, the mosquito, to only feed on plants, but built in a back up code for feeding on blood and meaty creatures in case something were to happen to his creation.

    Since the Fall, mosquitos have lost the ability to feed on plants, and has defaulted to only feeding on other creatures.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Fly View Post
    Let's take an obvious example....the parasite that causes malaria, a disease that has killed millions upon millions upon millions of humans. Here is the life cycle of the parasite:



    Pretty complex, right? Now, if we assume the creationists' argument that evolutionary mechanisms cannot generate complexity, and complexity only comes from "intelligence" (which to most creationists means God), what obvious conclusion must we reach under those parameters?
    That God built redundancy into His creation, and that the original genes would have coded for something beneficial, but that information has since been lost. Something that was perfect (and therefore would not harm any other part of creation) has broken down, and killed many millions of people. Perfectly in line with what creationists would expect if everything was created.

  6. #20
    Over 4000 post club Jose Fly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    4,252
    Thanks
    42
    Thanked 611 Times in 440 Posts

    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    196950
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    God designed, say, the mosquito, to only feed on plants, but built in a back up code for feeding on blood and meaty creatures in case something were to happen to his creation.
    So you believe God specifically and deliberately designed mosquitoes to feed on blood and spread disease...but only as a back-up plan. Thanks for your honesty.

    What about the plasmodium parasite that actually causes malaria? Do you believe God specifically and deliberately designed it to infect as well?
    "The way to deal with superstition is not to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous." --H.L. Mencken

  7. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jose Fly For Your Post:

    Arthur Brain (February 12th, 2018),Greg Jennings (February 13th, 2018)

  8. #21
    TOL Legend Lon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    9,542
    Thanks
    2,580
    Thanked 4,582 Times in 2,728 Posts

    Mentioned
    87 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147725
    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Fly View Post
    I'm curious....do you believe that God specifically and deliberately created all the pathogens, parasites, and pests that have haunted humanity and caused untold death and suffering? If not, how did they come to be, in your opinion?
    Romans 8:20 What is your take? (and thanks for asking, good questions).
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Lon For Your Post:

    Greg Jennings (February 13th, 2018)

  10. #22
    Over 4000 post club Jose Fly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    4,252
    Thanks
    42
    Thanked 611 Times in 440 Posts

    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    196950
    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    Romans 8:20 What is your take?
    That it doesn't really answer my question. I'm asking what you believe regarding the origin of pathogens, parasites, and pests.

    As we see above, @JudgeRightly believes they were specifically and deliberately created by God. Do you agree?
    "The way to deal with superstition is not to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous." --H.L. Mencken

  11. #23
    Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Taipei, Taiwan
    Posts
    17,376
    Thanks
    323
    Thanked 10,636 Times in 7,752 Posts

    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147826
    Quote Originally Posted by ThisIsMyUserName View Post
    Evolution: Gradual change over time
    There is no disagreement over the idea that things change (although organisms can adapt swiftly, which disproves "evolution" as you define it).

    This is typical of Darwinists: They do not want their ideas put to the test, so they define the debate out of existence.

    Evolution is the idea that all life is descended from a common ancestor by means of random mutations and natural selection. This is what the debate is over.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    When the world is a monster
    Bad to swallow you whole
    Kick the clay that holds the teeth in
    Throw your trolls out the door

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Stripe For Your Post:

    Yorzhik (March 1st, 2018)

  13. #24
    TOL Legend Arthur Brain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Precariously balanced on top of a mineshaft
    Posts
    14,809
    Thanks
    8,990
    Thanked 7,073 Times in 4,708 Posts

    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    2147749
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Breakdown and loss of information. God designed, say, the mosquito, to only feed on plants, but built in a back up code for feeding on blood and meaty creatures in case something were to happen to his creation.

    Since the Fall, mosquitos have lost the ability to feed on plants, and has defaulted to only feeding on other creatures.



    That God built redundancy into His creation, and that the original genes would have coded for something beneficial, but that information has since been lost. Something that was perfect (and therefore would not harm any other part of creation) has broken down, and killed many millions of people. Perfectly in line with what creationists would expect if everything was created.
    So, God, presumably well aware that something might go awry with His creation, aka human fallibility and weakness, purposely built a "back up plan" that would cause suffering not only to humans but also most of creation at large as well?
    Well this is fun isn't it?


  14. #25
    Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Taipei, Taiwan
    Posts
    17,376
    Thanks
    323
    Thanked 10,636 Times in 7,752 Posts

    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147826
    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    So, God, presumably well aware that something might go awry with His creation, aka human fallibility and weakness, purposely built a "back up plan" that would cause suffering not only to humans but also most of creation at large as well?
    Sounds like you have a point to make, but can't finish a coherent argument.

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Stripe For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (February 12th, 2018)

  16. #26
    Over 5000 post club 6days's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    5,938
    Thanks
    1,067
    Thanked 3,994 Times in 2,378 Posts

    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    1805157
    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Fly View Post
    I'm curious....do you believe that God specifically and deliberately created all the pathogens, parasites, and pests that have haunted humanity and caused untold death and suffering? If not, how did they come to be, in your opinion?
    A perfect creation has been subjected to entropy. EX... Most bacteria are beneficial and necessary for life. Mutations sometimes corrupt information.
    Without Genesis, absolutely nothing makes sense in all of Scripture.

  17. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to 6days For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (February 12th, 2018),Lon (February 13th, 2018),way 2 go (February 13th, 2018)

  18. #27
    TOL Legend Lon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    9,542
    Thanks
    2,580
    Thanked 4,582 Times in 2,728 Posts

    Mentioned
    87 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147725
    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Fly View Post
    That it doesn't really answer my question. I'm asking what you believe regarding the origin of pathogens, parasites, and pests.

    As we see above, @JudgeRightly believes they were specifically and deliberately created by God. Do you agree?
    Sure, but to do what they are doing now? I wouldn't think so. I wouldn't think their purpose would have been to do what they do. Scriptural examples: The wolf lying down with the lamb Isaiah 11:6 I can't think of a benefit of a mosquito biting, but males are nectar drinkers. I'd think there might have been a beneficial purpose. The suggestion is that we aren't evolving, but devolved yet sustained by harsher means as necessary suggested from Romans 8:20 imho. Again, thanks for asking.

    See ▲ 6 days ▲ just above me as well.
    Last edited by Lon; February 13th, 2018 at 12:42 AM.
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

  19. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Lon For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (February 13th, 2018),way 2 go (February 13th, 2018)

  20. #28
    Over 2500 post club
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,713
    Thanks
    412
    Thanked 414 Times in 321 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    250299
    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Sounds like you have a point to make, but can't finish a coherent argument.
    Sounds like you disagree, but are unable to make any sort of cogent counter-argument

    Par for the course from you, Stipe

  21. The Following User Says Thank You to Greg Jennings For Your Post:

    Arthur Brain (February 13th, 2018)

  22. #29
    Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Taipei, Taiwan
    Posts
    17,376
    Thanks
    323
    Thanked 10,636 Times in 7,752 Posts

    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147826
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Jennings View Post
    Sounds like you disagree, but are unable to make any sort of cogent counter-argument.


    I wouldn't word it like Brain did, but it's not overtly incorrect. However, like a typical Darwinist, he forgot the therefore.

    He went on a rant and it looks like he's relying on an unspoken narrative to create the illusion of a point.

    He didn't make a point, so there's nothing to debate. It's just a disconnected opinion.

  23. #30
    Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Taipei, Taiwan
    Posts
    17,376
    Thanks
    323
    Thanked 10,636 Times in 7,752 Posts

    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147826
    One day, Darwinists will learn to engage rationally.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us