Thread: Biblical Flat Enclosed Earth and Firmament

1. Originally Posted by The Barbarian
No, they'd merely have to fly in a horizontal path. Think about it.
So their "path" would take them lower to compensate?

If the flat earth were a globe, the aircraft would have to fly pointed downward at a rate of 9.45 miles per minute to avoid flying into orbit

2. Barbarian observes:
No, they'd merely have to fly in a horizontal path. Think about it.

Originally Posted by patrick jane
So their "path" would take them lower to compensate?
No. Their path would keep them level and at the same altitude from the ground. If you're puzzled as to how, I'll explain in detail. But first think about it carefully.

Hints:
1. what's the difference between Euclidean geometry and geometry?
2. What does a circular path tell you about the force(s) on the moving object?

If the flat earth were a globe, the aircraft would have to fly pointed downward at a rate of 9.45 miles per minute to avoid flying into orbit[/QUOTE]

3. Originally Posted by The Barbarian
Barbarian observes:
No, they'd merely have to fly in a horizontal path. Think about it.

No. Their path would keep them level and at the same altitude from the ground. If you're puzzled as to how, I'll explain in detail. But first think about it carefully.

Hints:
1. what's the difference between Euclidean geometry and geometry?
2. What does a circular path tell you about the force(s) on the moving object?

If the flat earth were a globe, the aircraft would have to fly pointed downward at a rate of 9.45 miles per minute to avoid flying into orbit
[/QUOTE]Yes, I shouldn't have posted that in this thread perhaps. I'm trying to keep most of the science data in DFT Dave's Flat Earth and the moon landing thread. If you would, you can debunk this and show how the geometry solves for that. I don't know Euclidian Geometry but there's a street in St. Louis named Euclid in the Central West End. It's a flat street. Let's move this over Dave's or my Conspiracy thread. I can't move posts from here to there but before you go, can you debunk this real quick?

Prolly just gravity or a reflection or a mirage.

4. Yes, I shouldn't have posted that in this thread perhaps. I'm trying to keep most of the science data in DFT Dave's Flat Earth and the moon landing thread. If you would, you can debunk this and show how the geometry solves for that. I don't know Euclidian Geometry but there's a street in St. Louis named Euclid in the Central West End. It's a flat street. Let's move this over Dave's or my Conspiracy thread. I can't move posts from here to there but before you go, can you debunk this real quick?

Prolly just gravity or a reflection or a mirage.[/QUOTE]

what's up with your sudden interest of science?

5. Originally Posted by patrick jane

Genesis 1:16 KJV - Genesis 1:16-19 KJV - And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

6. Originally Posted by patrick jane
If the flat earth were a globe, the aircraft would have to fly pointed downward at a rate of 9.45 miles per minute to avoid flying into orbit
If the globe earth were flat, the aircraft would have to fly tilted eastward at a rate of 9.45 miles per minute to avoid flying into the firmament

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patrick jane (February 6th, 2018)

8. Originally Posted by patrick jane
Genesis 1:16 KJV - Genesis 1:16-19 KJV - And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Flat Earth Creation: "In the Beginning..." (Genesis 1)

https://youtu.be/-m65Bp-Vl5Y - Click on the link for full screen view - Sometimes if you click the video it cuts off half the screen

8 minutes

9. This a comment left on a video from a user named Ephesians 6: 12 - this comment was not to me but the channel owner. I don't know yet if the HAM radio thing is true yet, but here it is: I can't get a wifi signal while sitting in mcdonalds or an airport, but using my trusty HAM radio, I can call the moon Frequency can't bend around a ball, but it can travel a 1/4 of million miles through the ionosphere....now I just spit my own coffee out Absolutely brilliant Will! The odd thing is that all of this information is out there for the public to see. WHY then are so many still veiled? (2nd Thess.2:11 )_"And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: Love you my fellow brother in Christ! †﻿

10. Originally Posted by patrick jane
Genesis 1:16 KJV - Genesis 1:16-19 KJV - And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
It is not speaking of the physical creation but the new creation man in Messiah, (fulfilled at Golgotha). Even the ancients did not believe Gen1 spoke of the physical creation: and this is shown in the Book of Enoch, in the section called the Book of the Luminaries, wherein it is stated more than once that Uriel presides over the sun, the moon, and all the stars, that is, not a "greater light" and a "lesser light" but one over them all who rules both the night and the day when it comes to the heavenly bodies or luminaries, and that one was Uriel. Whether one believes the Book of Enoch is legit or not really is not the point: the point is that whoever wrote it, if it was written after Gen1, did not understand Gen1 as speaking of the literal physical bodies of the planets, stars, sun, and moon. Is it not true that Messiah opens his mouth in parables teaching things kept secret from the foundation of the world? (Mat13:35, Psa78:2 LXX). The luminary of the body is the eye: if therefore your eye be untwisted, your whole body shall be full of light. But if your eye be ponerous, that is, evil, perverted, or twisted, your whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the LIGHT that is in you be DARKNESS: how great is that darkness! (Mat6:22-23, Luk11:34-36). There is a WHITE LIGHT, (the Truth from the Spirit of the Truth), and there is a BLACK LIGHT, (the blackness of the darkness forever, Jud1:13, which is from darkness and the spirit of the world).

How many eyes for luminaries do you have planted firmly in your heavens?
And are they spherical or are they flat?

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patrick jane (February 6th, 2018)

12. Originally Posted by daqq
It is not speaking of the physical creation but the new creation man in Messiah, (fulfilled at Golgotha). Even the ancients did not believe Gen1 spoke of the physical creation: and this is shown in the Book of Enoch, in the section called the Book of the Luminaries, wherein it is stated more than once that Uriel presides over the sun, the moon, and all the stars, that is, not a "greater light" and a "lesser light" but one over them all who rules both the night and the day when it comes to the heavenly bodies or luminaries, and that one was Uriel. Whether one believes the Book of Enoch is legit or not really is not the point: the point is that whoever wrote it, if it was written after Gen1, did not understand Gen1 as speaking of the literal physical bodies of the planets, stars, sun, and moon. Is it not true that Messiah opens his mouth in parables teaching things kept secret from the foundation of the world? (Mat13:35, Psa78:2 LXX). The luminary of the body is the eye: if therefore your eye be untwisted, your whole body shall be full of light. But if your eye be ponerous, that is, evil, perverted, or twisted, your whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the LIGHT that is in you be DARKNESS: how great is that darkness! (Mat6:22-23, Luk11:34-36). There is a WHITE LIGHT, (the Truth from the Spirit of the Truth), and there is a BLACK LIGHT, (the blackness of the darkness forever, Jud1:13, which is from darkness and the spirit of the world).

How many eyes for luminaries do you have planted firmly in your heavens?
And are they spherical or are they flat?
I trust the book of Genesis 1 more but here is another excerpt from Enoch chapter 80 if you want something to chew on: 1. And in those days the angel Uriel answered and said to me: ‘ Behold, I have shown thee everything, Enoch, and I have revealed everything to thee that thou shouldst see this sun and this moon, and the leaders of the stars of the heaven and all those who turn them, their tasks and times and departures.2. And in the days of the sinners the years shall be shortened, And their seed shall be tardy on their lands and fields, And all things on the earth shall alter, And shall not appear in their time: And the rain shall be kept back And the heaven shall withhold (it).
3. And in those times the fruits of the earth shall be backward, And shall not grow in their time, And the fruits of the trees shall be withheld in their time.
4. And the moon shall alter her order, And not appear at her time.
5. [And in those days the sun shall be seen and he shall journey in the evening on the extremity of the great chariot in the west] And shall shine more brightly than accords with the order of light.
6. And many chiefs of the stars shall transgress the order (prescribed). And these shall alter their orbits and tasks, And not appear at the seasons prescribed to them.
7. And the whole order of the stars shall be concealed from the sinners, And the thoughts of those on the earth shall err concerning them, [And they shall be altered from all their ways], Yea, they shall err and take them to be gods.
(Deuteronomy 17:3), (Wisdom 13:1-3), (Jeremiah 8:2), (Romans 1:25)
8. And evil shall be multiplied upon them, And punishment shall come upon them So as to destroy all.’
(Jonah 2:8), (Micah 5:9)

Flat Earth: "Through the Looking Glass" - The Bible/Enoch on the Planets...

The Book of Enoch. Chapter 80. | The book of Enoch

https://youtu.be/gYbT4MFYwJ0 - 12 minutes - click on link for full screen view - the screen gets cut off sometimes if you click on the video.

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daqq (February 7th, 2018)

14. Yes, I shouldn't have posted that in this thread perhaps. I'm trying to keep most of the science data in DFT Dave's Flat Earth and the moon landing thread. If you would, you can debunk this and show how the geometry solves for that. I don't know Euclidian Geometry but there's a street in St. Louis named Euclid in the Central West End. It's a flat street. Let's move this over Dave's or my Conspiracy thread. I can't move posts from here to there but before you go, can you debunk this real quick?

Prolly just gravity or a reflection or a mirage.[/QUOTE]

Wait a minute...

There are three people in that picture.

Obviously, NASA photoshopped one of them out, and forgot to get the other one, um? WFTH-I

15. Originally Posted by patrick jane
I trust the book of Genesis 1 more but here is another excerpt from Enoch chapter 80 if you want something to chew on: 1. And in those days the angel Uriel answered and said to me: ‘ Behold, I have shown thee everything, Enoch, and I have revealed everything to thee that thou shouldst see this sun and this moon, and the leaders of the stars of the heaven and all those who turn them, their tasks and times and departures.2. And in the days of the sinners the years shall be shortened, And their seed shall be tardy on their lands and fields, And all things on the earth shall alter, And shall not appear in their time: And the rain shall be kept back And the heaven shall withhold (it).
3. And in those times the fruits of the earth shall be backward, And shall not grow in their time, And the fruits of the trees shall be withheld in their time.
4. And the moon shall alter her order, And not appear at her time.
5. [And in those days the sun shall be seen and he shall journey in the evening on the extremity of the great chariot in the west] And shall shine more brightly than accords with the order of light.
6. And many chiefs of the stars shall transgress the order (prescribed). And these shall alter their orbits and tasks, And not appear at the seasons prescribed to them.
7. And the whole order of the stars shall be concealed from the sinners, And the thoughts of those on the earth shall err concerning them, [And they shall be altered from all their ways], Yea, they shall err and take them to be gods.
(Deuteronomy 17:3), (Wisdom 13:1-3), (Jeremiah 8:2), (Romans 1:25)

Yes, that is indeed speaking of the literal creation as if being an angelic host: which again confirms what I said, that whoever wrote it does not see Gen1 as speaking of the same because Gen1 has two primary "rulers" which Elohim made in the fourth day: the one who rules the light, (yom), or day, (yom), which is called the greater light; and the other who rules the darkness, (laylah) or night, (laylah), which is called the lesser light. But the Book of the Luminaries in Enoch speaks of one ruler of them all, that is again, Uriel, ("Light of God" or "Flame/Fire of God"), so it is not speaking of the same things because the author does not see Gen1 as speaking of what he himself is speaking about in the Book of Enoch. Moreover, as said in other places: Paul straight up tells you that the FIRST man Adam was formed in Gen2:7, and became a living soul, and that is surely not Gen1:26-28. Moreover king David in Psa8:3-8 tells you that the Son of Man is the one from the heavens in Gen1:26-28 and the author of Hebrews confirms it as well as Paul. To ignore these facts causes everyone who ignores them to misunderstand the order of creation because the first two chapters of Genesis are not in chronological order. The opening chapter of Genesis is prophecy, (Mat11:13), and is not fulfilled until Golgotha in the six yamim-hours of the new creation at the crucifixion of Messiah.

Originally Posted by patrick jane
Flat Earth: "Through the Looking Glass" - The Bible/Enoch on the Planets...

8. And evil shall be multiplied upon them, And punishment shall come upon them So as to destroy all.’
(Jonah 2:8), (Micah 5:9)
The Book of Enoch. Chapter 80. | The book of Enoch

https://youtu.be/gYbT4MFYwJ0 - 12 minutes - click on link for full screen view - the screen gets cut off sometimes if you click on the video.

I watched and then listened to about ten minutes while I was looking up what follows. He already is mistaken about Jude also right from the start, we have also gone over that and I think you might have even thanked one of those posts. Jude speaks not of literal people but of those which Enoch prophesied against, that is, those having been written beforehand into destruction and judgment, the fallen Watchers. Those are the jagged rocks and spots in your love-feasts in the Word: anthropon-manfaced countenances of men who can creep in unawares while you are feasting in the Word, if you are not careful: in other words plain ole false doctrines! It is not speaking of literal physical men but "demons and their doctrines".

I just went and checked while I was listeneing, and yes, you did thank this post but perhaps it was not something you truly "heard", (no worries, we are all guilty of the same from time to time, no doubt). So please allow me to nudge your memory, however, I cannot post the proper link here because the thread is now closed, so the link is at the bottom of the post:

Carnal minded is a serious thing. This is what I meant from Jude:

Jude 1:3-4 ASV
3 Beloved, while I was giving all diligence to write unto you of our common salvation, I was constrained to write unto you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are certain men crept in privily, even they who were of old written of beforehand unto this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

It truly says "written beforehand", though not all translations render it this way, for the word rendered "written beforehand" is προγεγραμμενοι, and therefore these anthropon-manfaced or "countenances", ("certain ones"), are not the kind of men that one can see with the eyes of the flesh: for they are likened to unclean spirits, (of man and of the world), who savor the things that be of men, (Mat16:23 KJV). This moreover is expounded first in many parables, proverbs, allegories, and sayings in the doctrine of the Master in the Gospel accounts, (for instance, he says in Matthew 10:17, "Beware of the anthropon-(manfaced), for they will deliver you up to the sanhedrins, and in their synagogues they will scourge you: yea, and you shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and against the heathen).

Jude then goes on to say who these anthropon-manfaced certain ones concern, and we find the word τουτοις, which is not to say "of these" but rather "to these", meaning that Enoch prophesied not "of these", but more like "against these", in the following passage:

Jude 1:14-16 ASV
14 And to these
[against these] also Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, Behold, the Lord came with ten thousands of his holy ones,
15 to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their works of ungodliness which they have ungodly wrought, and of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their lusts (and their mouth speaketh great swelling words), showing respect of persons for the sake of advantage.

Indeed, these are men of old time, "men of renown", which can also be understood as "men named" or "men having been named, (Gen6:4), and they are named in Enoch according to Jude: they have names that are known, (such as Shemyaza and Azazel), and indeed they can creep in unawares while you are feasting in the Word, (Jude 1:12 ASV).
Those of whom Jude speaks are fallen Watchers: not literal physical people.
You cannot see that kind with your eyes of the flesh.

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patrick jane (February 6th, 2018)

17. Barbarian chuckles:
No. Their path would keep them level and at the same altitude from the ground. If you're puzzled as to how, I'll explain in detail. But first think about it carefully.

Hints:
1. what's the difference between Euclidean geometry and geometry?
2. What does a circular path tell you about the force(s) on the moving object?

First, the Earth's surface is a non-Euclidean surface. This explains why, if you pick three spots on three different continents on a globe, and draw lines making a triangle, the sum of the three angles will not be 180. So Euclidean geometry won't work for that.

Second, an airplane flying above the Earth flies in a circular path for the same reason that the moon makes a circular path around the Earth. Here's the key; anytime you have curved motion, there are at least 2 forces at work. One is the propulsion of the aircraft. The other is gravity. But as the aircraft tends to move in a straight line, the gravity of the Earth pulls it. And as the curvature of the Earth changes what "down" is, the force pulls in a different direction, and the aircraft moves in a curve.

This is why nothing actually leaves the Earth unless it's going at escape velocity; gravity tends to pull it down into a curve.

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daqq (February 7th, 2018)

19. Originally Posted by The Barbarian
Barbarian chuckles:
No. Their path would keep them level and at the same altitude from the ground. If you're puzzled as to how, I'll explain in detail. But first think about it carefully.

Hints:
1. what's the difference between Euclidean geometry and geometry?
2. What does a circular path tell you about the force(s) on the moving object?

First, the Earth's surface is a non-Euclidean surface. This explains why, if you pick three spots on three different continents on a globe, and draw lines making a triangle, the sum of the three angles will not be 180. So Euclidean geometry won't work for that.

Second, an airplane flying above the Earth flies in a circular path for the same reason that the moon makes a circular path around the Earth. Here's the key; anytime you have curved motion, there are at least 2 forces at work. One is the propulsion of the aircraft. The other is gravity. But as the aircraft tends to move in a straight line, the gravity of the Earth pulls it. And as the curvature of the Earth changes what "down" is, the force pulls in a different direction, and the aircraft moves in a curve.

This is why nothing actually leaves the Earth unless it's going at escape velocity; gravity tends to pull it down into a curve.
That darn gravity is some magic stuff.

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daqq (February 7th, 2018)

21. Originally Posted by The Barbarian
Barbarian chuckles:
No. Their path would keep them level and at the same altitude from the ground. If you're puzzled as to how, I'll explain in detail. But first think about it carefully.

Hints:
1. what's the difference between Euclidean geometry and geometry?
2. What does a circular path tell you about the force(s) on the moving object?

First, the Earth's surface is a non-Euclidean surface. This explains why, if you pick three spots on three different continents on a globe, and draw lines making a triangle, the sum of the three angles will not be 180. So Euclidean geometry won't work for that.

Second, an airplane flying above the Earth flies in a circular path for the same reason that the moon makes a circular path around the Earth. Here's the key; anytime you have curved motion, there are at least 2 forces at work. One is the propulsion of the aircraft. The other is gravity. But as the aircraft tends to move in a straight line, the gravity of the Earth pulls it. And as the curvature of the Earth changes what "down" is, the force pulls in a different direction, and the aircraft moves in a curve.

This is why nothing actually leaves the Earth unless it's going at escape velocity; gravity tends to pull it down into a curve.
And I would imagine that gravity also accounts for the gyroscope artificial horizon phenomenon that flat-earthers also like to bring up. You would most likely know much more about it than myself, but it seems that the pull of gravity would keep the gyroscope perpendicular to the surface of the earth while an airplane is in flight, (I only bring it up because I saw it brought up in several other threads already and I do think that the answer to that particular objection of the flat-earthers pertains to the effects of gravity on the gyroscope or artificial horizon).

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