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Thread: The Justification of the Ungodly, Romans 4:5

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    The Justification of the Ungodly, Romans 4:5

    "But to him that does no works, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

    Who are the ungodly? If you are a human being born after Adam you are the ungodly, Romans 5:12.

    How does Jesus justify the ungodly? Justification is not something that happens within the believer. Justification takes place totally and completely outside of the believer. All that is required of us is that we have faith in the doing and the dying of Jesus.

    When were we justified? We were justified by Jesus Christ over 2000 years ago. After we were justified we were also reconciled to God, 2 Corinthians 5:18. Justification and reconciliation go hand in hand. No one can be reconciled to God without first being justified.

    Justification is a legal word that is frequently used in a court of law. The word justify means to be made right or vindicated. To be declared guiltless. To be absolved from sin. I have heard it described as "just as though I had never sinned" But we know that all have sinned, Romans 3:23.

    This act of being justified is ours by simple child like faith. There is no works or obedience required. Paul wrote,

    "What shall we say then that Abraham our father as pertaining to the flesh, has found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he has whereof to glory: but not before God. For what does the scripture say? ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS COUNTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS" Romans 4:1-3.

    In the New Testament faith, not works or obedience counts for righteousness. This is very difficult for people that are religious to understand.

    Jesus does the work of justifying the ungodly. In our name and on our behalf, Jesus offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law, Matthew 5:18. It is this life that was lived for our justification, Romans 3:26. That was not enough. In our name and on our behalf Jesus, who knew no sin, became sin for us that we might be made the righteousness of God in him, 2 Corinthians 5:21.

    God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ. Jesus's acceptance into heaven is our acceptance, we are accepted in him. In Jesus Christ we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30. We now stand before God's holy court as perfect and complete in Jesus Christ, Colossians 2:10. Fully and completely justified. No religion was needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    "But to him that does no works, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

    Who are the ungodly? If you are a human being born after Adam you are the ungodly, Romans 5:12.

    How does Jesus justify the ungodly? Justification is not something that happens within the believer. Justification takes place totally and completely outside of the believer. All that is required of us is that we have faith in the doing and the dying of Jesus.

    When were we justified? We were justified by Jesus Christ over 2000 years ago. After we were justified we were also reconciled to God, 2 Corinthians 5:18. Justification and reconciliation go hand in hand. No one can be reconciled to God without first being justified.

    Justification is a legal word that is frequently used in a court of law. The word justify means to be made right or vindicated. To be declared guiltless. To be absolved from sin. I have heard it described as "just as though I had never sinned" But we know that all have sinned, Romans 3:23.

    This act of being justified is ours by simple child like faith. There is no works or obedience required. Paul wrote,

    "What shall we say then that Abraham our father as pertaining to the flesh, has found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he has whereof to glory: but not before God. For what does the scripture say? ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS COUNTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS" Romans 4:1-3.

    In the New Testament faith, not works or obedience counts for righteousness. This is very difficult for people that are religious to understand.

    Jesus does the work of justifying the ungodly. In our name and on our behalf, Jesus offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law, Matthew 5:18. It is this life that was lived for our justification, Romans 3:26. That was not enough. In our name and on our behalf Jesus, who knew no sin, became sin for us that we might be made the righteousness of God in him, 2 Corinthians 5:21.

    God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ. Jesus's acceptance into heaven is our acceptance, we are accepted in him. In Jesus Christ we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30. We now stand before God's holy court as perfect and complete in Jesus Christ, Colossians 2:10. Fully and completely justified. No religion was needed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    When were we justified? We were justified by Jesus Christ over 2000 years ago. After we were justified we were also reconciled to God, 2 Corinthians 5:18. Justification and reconciliation go hand in hand. No one can be reconciled to God without first being justified.
    I should have expected this, more sloppiness, and out right wrong "doctrine" by sloppy Pate, as he refuses to study the details, of the book.

    We are first reconciled, by His death:


    Romans 5:10 KJV For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.(My note:His resurrected life, not His walk, on earth).


    Romans 4:25 KJV Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.


    We are then saved, justified, by His resurrected life, not his "life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law," as that is "vicarious law keeping" Pate, as we have discussed, a perversion of the gospel of Christ, but satan keeps telling you to spam this "doctrine," that is straight from the pits of hell.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Jesus does the work of justifying the ungodly. In our name and on our behalf, Jesus offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law, Matthew 5:18. It is this life that was lived for our justification, Romans 3:26.
    And, no, He did not "offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law," for our justification-he offered:



    Hebrews 9:14 KJV How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

    =propitiation, Pate-the reason for his 100% walk according to the law



    Do the LORD God, and thus members of the boc a service. Stop your posting of perverted "doctrine."
    Saint John W

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    I have John w on ignore. I got tired of being called, Satan, a pervert, an idiot, and other things. He has a very abusive attitude towards anyone that does not agree with him. He does not appear to me to be a Christian, Bad Spirit.

    I do know this, it is the work of Satan to make our salvation an inpersonable thing. It appears to me that is what he is trying to do. Our salvation is very personable. When Jesus lived, we lived in him. When Jesus died, we died with him. When Jesus entered into heaven, we entered in with him. When Jesus returns we will appear with him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    I have John w on ignore. I got tired of being called, Satan, a pervert, an idiot, and other things. He has a very abusive attitude towards anyone that does not agree with him. He does not appear to me to be a Christian, Bad Spirit.

    I do know this, it is the work of Satan to make our salvation an inpersonable thing. It appears to me that is what he is trying to do. Our salvation is very personable. When Jesus lived, we lived in him. When Jesus died, we died with him. When Jesus entered into heaven, we entered in with him. When Jesus returns we will appear with him.
    And? You've said NADA, that pertains to your "vicarious law keeping, which is a perversion of the gospel of Christ, and is w/o excuse, and I am not the only one who has called you on this, Pate, and your sloppiness. But you're pride, and "unteacheable spirit" results in the above tired dribble, and cry baby routine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    He does not appear to me to be a Christian, Bad Spirit.]
    And you appear to be a combinination Calvinist/Catholic, by the above statement-you talk like them-they talk like you=you judge whether one is a Christian, by their lifestyle, "Bad Spirit."

    And, for someone that you've put on ignore, 3 times, you have an inability to ignore me. Why is that, Pate? Rhetorical q.


    _
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Jesus does the work of justifying the ungodly. In our name and on our behalf, Jesus offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law, Matthew 5:18. It is this life that was lived for our justification...
    =made up perversion of the gospel of Christ-on record-again.
    Saint John W

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    All that Jesus is and all that Jesus did was for us. Jesus was not only God with us, Jesus was also God for us. Jesus was God's new Adam and our new humanity, "If any man be "In Christ" he is a new creation: old things have passed away; behold ALL Things have become new" 2 Corinthians 5:17.

    We are new creations in Jesus Christ. This is a very intimate and personal thing. "God was in Christ reconciling us and the world unto God" 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

    Jesus did that by doing for us that which we cannot do for ourselves. We cannot fulfill the law, Jesus fulfilled it for us. We cannot atone for our sins, Jesus atoned for our sins for us.

    Beware of those John W's that want to separate you from Christ and his Gospel.

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    ONLY CHRISTIANS IF? ONLY LOVED IF? IF IS A CONDITION

    Heb 3:5-6
    5 And Moses indeed was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward,
    6 but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.
    Eph 4:21
    21 IF indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus:
    John 6:29
    29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."
    Matt 11:27
    27 "All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
    1 Pet 4:17-18
    17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and IF it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?
    18 Now "IF the righteous one is scarcely saved, where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?"
    Heb 3:14
    14 For we have become partakers of Christ IF we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,
    I Jn 1:8-10
    8 IF we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    9 IF we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    10 IF we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
    2 Cor 10:3-5
    3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh.
    4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds,
    5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,
    I Jn 2:4-5
    4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
    5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
    John 15:10
    10 "IF you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
    John 15:14
    14 "You are My friends IF you do whatever I command you.
    I Jn 2:3
    3 Now by this we know that we know Him, IF we keep His commandments.
    Matt 6:14-15
    14 "For IF you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
    15 "But IF you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
    I Jn 5:3-4
    3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
    4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world-- our faith.
    Rev 22:18-19
    18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: IF anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
    19 and IF anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
    Matt 28:20
    20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.
    (NKJ)Col 1:23
    23 IF indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
    (NKJ)
    xxx The IF's in the Word of God are conditions of love. There is no such thing as unconditional love. God says He will(not is) but will be a Father to us. If has always been one of the biggest conditions for love in God. God will love you IF.



    2 Cor 6:14-18
    14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?
    15 And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever?
    16 And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will dwell in them and walk among them. I will be their God, and they shall be My people."
    17 Therefore "Come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, and I will receive you."
    18 "I will be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty."
    (NKJ)


    2 Pet 1:5-10
    5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge,
    6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness,
    7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.
    8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
    10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;
    (NKJ)


    Gal 3:29
    29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
    (NKJ)

    Gal 5:24-25
    24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
    25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
    (NKJ)

    John 15:7
    7 "If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you.
    (NKJ)


    John 14:15
    15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments.
    (NKJ)

    John 15:10
    10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
    (NKJ)


    Heb 8:6-7
    6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
    7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
    (NKJ)


    John 6:65
    65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."
    (NKJ)

    Luke 13:3
    3 "I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.
    (NKJ)

    Luke 13:5
    5 "I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish."
    (NKJ)

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    God's love for humanity is unconditional. The Gospel is for everyone, even though many will not receive it. It is still provided for all and not just some.

    "God so loved the world" John 3:16. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, not for the sins of just some, 1 John 2:2.

    Everyone has been reconciled unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. But not everyone wants to be reconciled unto God, they are the lost.

    The Holy Spirit is in the world calling all to come to Christ, Some hear and believe, some don't, Hebrews 4:2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    All that Jesus is and all that Jesus did was for us. Jesus was not only God with us, Jesus was also God for us. Jesus was God's new Adam and our new humanity, "If any man be "In Christ" he is a new creation: old things have passed away; behold ALL Things have become new" 2 Corinthians 5:17.

    We are new creations in Jesus Christ. This is a very intimate and personal thing. "God was in Christ reconciling us and the world unto God" 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

    Jesus did that by doing for us that which we cannot do for ourselves. We cannot fulfill the law, Jesus fulfilled it for us. We cannot atone for our sins, Jesus atoned for our sins for us.

    Beware of those John W's that want to separate you from Christ and his Gospel.
    No, beware of Pate, who perverts the gospel of Christ, with this satanic "vicarious law keeping," and, because he is drunk with a demon, says, on one hand, that the law was "abolished" for believers, and, on the other hand, yet, still remains, is "un-abolished" for the lost(and he changed his argument on that, after I corrected him with scripture, despite his devious denials), which is non sensical slop, and all of TOL knows it. And he further spams that the law was abolished/nailed to the cross, although no scripture says that, despite him spamming over, and over, 2 verses, that allegedly say that, and him having NO ANSWER as to how/why the law was followed, "post cross,"the prime example being the feasts observed by the 12, Paul, thousands................................ACCORDING TO THE LAW.


    Fold Pate, and quit deceiving others.
    Saint John W

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    If Jesus did not fulfill the law for us, Matthew 5:18, Then who did he fulfill it for?

    If Jesus did not abolish the law for believers, then who did he abolish it for?

    "Blotting out the handwriting of the ordinances that was against us, that was contrary to us and took it out of the way nailing it to his cross" Colossians 2:14

    An ordinance is law. The law has been done away for the Christian. Where there is law there is judgment and condemnation.

    "There is no condemnation to them which are in Christ" Romans 8:1.

    This is why Paul said to the legalistic Galatians...

    "Tell me that you desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? Galatians 4:21.

    To be under the law is to be lost and under the judgment of God. This is why Jesus abolished it for believers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    If Jesus did not fulfill the law for us, Matthew 5:18, Then who did he fulfill it for?
    Sophistry, deceit, and you know it, as you spam a "Are you still beating your wife" type of question, Pate.


    He did fulfill it for us, to be qualified as the satisfactory sacrifice, as you've been shown/answered, devious one, but not so as to have his keeping the law imputed to us. So stuff your trap, disingenous question, which most of TOL sees right through.


    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    If Jesus did not abolish the law for believers, then who did he abolish it for?
    You devious questions presumes that he abolished it; so, it's another devil "inspired" question on your part.


    Way to "ignore" me, again, Pate; why don't you get honest, for a change?
    Saint John W

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    I peaked at your post because you need to be refuted.

    Jesus came into the world as the sinless Son of God. He was already a perfect sacrifice for the sins of humanity. He didn't have to fulfill the law to become perfect, he was already perfect.

    But as our substitute and representative he did it for us, in our name and on our behalf.

    If you were a Christian you would know these things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post

    "Blotting out the handwriting of the ordinances that was against us, that was contrary to us and took it out of the way nailing it to his cross" Colossians 2:14

    An ordinance is law. The law has been done away for the Christian. Where there is law there is judgment and condemnation.]

    You keep spamming this made up slop, Pate, that Col. 2:13-14 KJV has God's holy laws in view, being nailed to the cross. I, and others, have corrected you on it, over, and over, and yet you keep asserting this satanic "doctrine." One more time, to protect the sheep/babes, from your lies:

    What was nailed to the cross is described as “the handwriting of requirements"-that was against us, which was contrary to us.” Because “ordinances” sounds like “law,” some, like sloppy Pate, twist the meaning of “nailed it to the cross” into Paul saying the force of the law of God ended at the death of the Lord Jesus Christ.

    The writ of charges...
    In using the words “handwriting of requirements … contrary to us … nailed it to the cross,” Paul was describing the record of our sins, the indictment that required the penalty of death.

    No, the indictments against believers, the charges against believers, the legal indebtedness against believers – was what was dropped, and nailed to the cross at the Lord Jesus Christ's death, rather than the law itself, which is consistently characterized in Scripture as eternal, and good...To wit:


    Romans 7 KJV

    12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

    13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

    14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

    15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

    16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

    “handwriting,”=a memorandum of debt, "a writing by hand" used in public and private contracts.


    The wages of our sins—our debt—is death (Romans 6:23). The Lord Jesus Christ was willing to pay that debt by dying in our place, thus blotting out the record of our debt and pardoning our sins.

    Survey the "death warrant" against us, because of our sin/sins is the sign that Pilate had nailed to the cross upon which the Lord Jesus Christ was crucified. John 19:19-22 KJV-It was customary to publish a writ of charges against the condemned, and the board above the Lord Jesus Christ's head was inscribed with the charges for which the Jewish authorities demanded His death. Thus, it was a Roman custom, to write the name of the condemned person and his crime on a plaque to be placed above his head at the execution. Survey Mark 15:26 KJV-"superscription of his accusation."

    26 And the superscription of his accusation was written over, The King Of The Jews.




    The charges removed-the meaning, then, of Colossians 2:13-14 KJV, based upon the immediate and the broader context is: You gentile believers had a death sentence against you due to your sin/sins-here are the charges............... But through the dbr, everything that one time could have been held against you has been removed.

    The law against believers? No, it wasn’t God’s law that was against believers; it was the sins that they committed, as defined by that same holy, good law!. "the handwriting of ordinances that was against us,"= anything written by hand, but can more specifically apply to a legal document, bond or note of debt, was against us!!!!

    Paul is relaying that the LORD God has "wiped out," removed, "nailed to the cross," through the body of Christ , representing mankind's guilt, the instrument for the remembrance of sin. The legal basis of this instrument was the "binding statutes," Col. 2:14 KJV, but what the LORD God destroyed on the cross was not the legal ground, the law, for our entanglement into sin, but the written record of our sins. By destroying the record of sins, the LORD God removed the possibility of a charge ever being made again against those who have been forgiven-a dead man is not under jurisdiction to the law.

    " Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us,"


    The above-a handwritten acknowledgement or note of debt, something like an I.O.U. When the debt was paid in full, the handwriting was invalidated by piercing it with something sharp like a nail.

    This "handwriting" was also used in the case of the crucifixion or punishment of a criminal. All the charges of which the person had been found guilty, were written on a piece of parchment, and nailed to the cross on which the person convicted of those crimes would be crucified. Everyone could then see why he was hanging there and what he had done to deserve such a cruel punishment.This written indictment/charge/accusation are seen in John 19:19-20: accusations that were hung on the cross, on which the Lord Jesus Christ hung:

    19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was Jesus Of Nazareth The King Of The Jews.

    20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.

    The "accusing witness," so to speak, against the sinner, the record book of his sins, the certificate of debt, or book of debt, was removed/nailed. The Lord Jesus Christ has "erased" it, removed it out of the court, out of the witness chair of the accuser. Not only is this record of our sins removed, but it is also "nailed to the cross" in the sense that the Lord Jesus Christ took our sins upon himself, and paid the penalty for them...Survey 2 Cor. 5:21 KJV.


    Moreover, pardoning someone for committing a capital crime, doesn’t do away with the law that was broken. If anything, it shows that the law carries force, for without the pardon, the criminal would die!

    In the same way, the law of God carries force since breaking it (committing sin) requires the death penalty. The law is that powerful, that important. It is holy. People aren’t saved from that which was against them (the death penalty) by doing away with the law. What saves people from death is the death of the Lord Jesus Christ in the place of those who trust 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV.

    In fact, the wording Paul employed Colossians 2:13-14 showed that the law of God continues to carry great force. By saying the penalty demanded under the law of God was nailed to the instrument that killed the Lord Jesus Christ, Paul was showing that the law of God was still in force, still requiring death for sin.

    By contrast, if the law had been brought to an abrupt end by the death of the Lord Jesus Christ, from that point on, nothing would be “against the law”-duh! Nothing could be called “sin.” Of course, we know that is not true. Sin exists, which means the law that calls it “sin” also exists!




    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    To be under the law is to be lost and under the judgment of God. This is why Jesus abolished it for believers.
    -I never said believers are under the law, you satanic piece of dung, as you keep saying, habitual liar,so knock it off.

    -No such thing as "abolished" for believers, you moron. We are not under the law, but the law has not been abolished, idiot, as you pervert the meaning of "abolish," from the bible. No scripture says that the law was abolished-for anyone.


    Tell us how believers can be charged with the sin of rape, Pate, if the law was abolished for them. Go ahead.

    And notice I said "charged," Pate, not convicted, to anticipate your convoluted answer.

    If there is no law against rape, how can a believer, be charged with the sin/crime?
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    I peaked at your post because you need to be refuted.

    Jesus came into the world as the sinless Son of God. He was already a perfect sacrifice for the sins of humanity. He didn't have to fulfill the law to become perfect, he was already perfect.

    But as our substitute and representative he did it for us, in our name and on our behalf.

    If you were a Christian you would know these things.
    Irrelevant-side step. Your satanic "vicarious law keeping," and your mangling of the meaning of the term "abolish" is the issue, you sloppy perverter of the scriptures, lazy one, indifferent to the details of the book, cavalier handling of the book, and just making "doctrine" up, because you read it on another site
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    I have John w on ignore.
    And yet you keep "un ignoring" me. You can't keep your story straight.
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    Irrelevant-side step. Your satanic "vicarious law keeping," and your mangling of the meaning of the term "abolish" is the issue, you sloppy perverter of the scriptures, lazy one, indifferent to the details of the book, cavalier handling of the book, and just making "doctrine" up, because you read it on another site

    You don't have the Spirit of a Christian and it appears that you are trying to separate that wonderful sinless life that was lived in our name and on our behalf from us.

    Jesus justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5. He justifies the ungodly by doing for the ungodly what the ungodly cannot do for themselves because they are sinners.

    God requires two things for the salvation of a sinner.

    1. A life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law.

    2. A perfect sacrifice for his sins and the sins of the whole world.

    Jesus has victoriously met both of these requirements in our name and on our behalf. Its called justification. You must be justified by the life and the death of Christ or you will perish.

    To reject his life for your salvation is to reject him. This leads me to believe that you are NOT a Christian.

    We are as much saved by his life as we are saved by his death. We need to be delivered from the law. Jesus fulfilled the law and abolished it, Ephesians 2:15 and he did that for us, for our justification.

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