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Thread: The Hebrew Epistles and Where Do They Fit?

  1. #31
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    Where are all the passages to us commanding us to confess our sins? I can't find any.
    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

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    Where's Jerry's testimony that he has trusted the Lord believing the gospel of our salvation as the only means of salvation and not his turning from sin or confessing sins (his made up hijacked version of)? Where is Jerry's focus?
    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

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    Hebrew epistles are written to Hebrews and not to Gentiles like us in the dispensation of the grace of God.
    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    So when did the pronoun "we" change from being being in regard to saved people to being in regard to unsaved people?

    "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us) That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us" (1 Jn.1-10).
    It's the same royal "we" every preacher uses. If we say we're saved....BUT WALK IN DARKNESS. Believers do not walk in darkness. John 8:12 Darkness is not compatible with the LIGHT OF LIFE, which John talks about quite often in his Gospel.

    If we say......compared to If we walk in the LIGHT.
    If we say.....
    If we say.....

    Exactly like this...

    Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.



    Please notice it does not say "has" cleansed us. Instead, the word "cleanseth" is in the "present" tense. It is ongoing and when a Christian sins he defiles himself and he is in need cleansing or else he stays in a state of being unholy. And all a Christian has to do to in order to be holy once again is to confess or acknowledge his sin.
    Please note it says cleanseth from ALL SIN...not just the sins you confess.

    Unholy? I don't think you believe that, Jerry. You know the word of God. We are sanctified by the Holy Spirit...washed, sanctified, and justified.

    Col. 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

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    Quote Originally Posted by heir View Post
    Where are all the passages to us commanding us to confess our sins? I can't find any.
    You can't find them because you prove over and over that you don't believe what is written in the Bible.

    Quote Originally Posted by heir View Post
    We have a different gospel, duty/purpose and eternal destination. The timing of the atonement isn't even the same. Stop blending the word of God.
    The timing of the atonement isn't the same? So even though Peter says the following to those he addressed their atonement remains in the future:

    "Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.1:18-19).

    Quote Originally Posted by heir View Post
    Judas Iscariot was the only one who ate and drank unworthily. Next...
    Then why does Paul make it plain that more than one who ate and drank unworthily?:

    "For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep" (1 Cor.11:29-30).

    Quote Originally Posted by heir View Post
    Those of 1 John 1:9 KJV will have forgiveness of sins at the second coming when a fountain is opened unto them...(Zechriah 13:1 KJV).
    Then why does John tell them this?:

    "I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake" (1 Jn.2:12).

    Quote Originally Posted by heir View Post
    What a truckload of dung not to mention calling the Lord's Body unholy. If ever there was a reason to call someone an idiot it's now.
    So even though the Lord Jesus says that a person's sins defile him you know better because you think that Christians cannot become unholy. But why would Paul tell the Christian this if he couldn't be defiled?:

    "Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God" (2 Cor.7:1).

    How can a Christian possibly clean himself from the filthiness of the flesh and spirit unless he can in fact become filthy and defiled?

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    It's the same royal "we" every preacher uses. If we say we're saved....BUT WALK IN DARKNESS. Believers do not walk in darkness. John 8:12 Darkness is not compatible with the LIGHT OF LIFE, which John talks about quite often in his Gospel.
    According to your ideas someone can be filthy in the flesh and spirit in their walk but at the same time they are walking in the light!

    "Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God" (2 Cor.7:1).

    According to your ideas John used the pronoun "we" to refer to saved individuals in the beginning of the chapter but later in the same chapter he used the same pronoun to refer to the unsaved.

    That idea is ridiculous, almost as ridiculous as your idea that a Christian is walking in the light at the same time he is living a life which Paul describes as being filthy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by heir View Post
    Hebrew epistles are written to Hebrews and not to Gentiles like us in the dispensation of the grace of God.
    Those who received the Hebrew epistles were waiting to be caught up to meet the Lord Jesus in the air with all of the other members of the Body of Christ. Here is what Paul says about the timing of the rapture:

    "For our citizenship is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body...The Lord is at hand (eggus)"
    (Phil.3:20-21;4:5).

    The Greek word eggus means "of times imminent and soon to come to pass" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

    In the Hebrew epistles we see a passage which describes the timing of the Lord Jesus' appearance at the rapture:

    "You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord's coming is near"
    (James 5:8).

    The Greek word translated "is near" at James 5:8 is eggizo and in this verse that word means "to be imminent" (A Greek English Lexicon, Liddell & Scott [Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1940], 467).

    In an article found on the "Pre-Trib Research Center" web site Dr. Renald E. Showers writes:

    "In light of James' statements C. Leslie Mitton wrote, 'James clearly believed, as others of his time did, that the coming of Christ was imminent.' On the basis of James' statements we can conclude that Christ's coming was imminent in New Testament times and continues to be so today, and that this fact should make a difference in the way Christians live"
    [emphasis added] (Showers, The Imminent Coming of Christ).

    Since only those in the Body will be caught up and since there can only be one imminent appearance of the Lord Jesus then we know that those who received the Hebrew epistle were also in the Body of Christ. In the following verse John speaks of the appearance of the Lord Jesus:

    "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" (1 Jn.3:2).

    Of course you will not believe what James said because you put more faith in what some people say about the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    According to your ideas someone can be filthy in the flesh and spirit in their walk but at the same time they are walking in the light!

    "Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God" (2 Cor.7:1).
    No, that's your reading of what Paul writes...not mine. Paul is talking about coming out from among them...being separate. We know it's the Spirit that cleans us internally. We know that it is the Lord that performs His work in us. That "filthiness" you see there is not IN us at all. It's referring to our habits of life that we had before we were received as "sons and daughters". You can tell that if you read the lead up here.

    2 Cor. 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

    According to your ideas John used the pronoun "we" to refer to saved individuals in the beginning of the chapter but later in the same chapter he used the same pronoun to refer to the unsaved.

    That idea is ridiculous, almost as ridiculous as your idea that a Christian is walking in the light at the same time he is living a life which Paul describes as being filthy.
    No, that's your reading of the text. John is using the word "we" to refer to all those present. Can John see into the hearts of those present? You seem to think he can, but he, himself, mentions later that we only know whether they are of us if they do not depart.

    Man does not move in and out of the darkness, any more than a man can be saved, lose his salvation, and then gain it again. The LIGHT OF LIFE is Jesus Christ. We do no move in and out of the LIGHT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    No, that's your reading of what Paul writes...not mine. Paul is talking about coming out from among them...being separate. We know it's the Spirit that cleans us internally. We know that it is the Lord that performs His work in us.
    We are to clean ourselves:

    "Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God" (2 Cor.7:1).

    These words are addressed to believers (having the promises) and since Paul tells Christians to clean themselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit then that can only mean that when a Christian sins he defiles himself and becomes filthy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    We are to clean ourselves:

    "Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God" (2 Cor.7:1).

    These words are addressed to believers (having the promises) and since Paul tells Christians to clean themselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit then that can only mean that when a Christian sins he defiles himself and becomes filthy.
    So you have concluded that those in Christ sin? Having been delivered from the law, means nothing? Having been crucified with Christ means nothing? Sin is still accounted to us?

    We "clean outselves" by coming out from among them. (Having been set apart through sanctification of the Spirit. Do you honestly think we can clean ourselves of anything?

    2 Cor. 6:17-18 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

    2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

    Ephesians 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

    Colossians 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;


    Who is it that conforms us into the image of the Son? Us?

    Who is it that performs His work in us? Us?

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Do you honestly think we can clean ourselves of anything?
    "Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God" (2 Cor.7:1).

    In this verse the Greek word translated "let us cleanse" is in the "active" voice:

    "The active voice represents the subject as the doer or performer of the action. e.g., in the sentence, "The boy hit the ball," the boy performs the action"
    (Blue Letter Bible).

    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    So you have concluded that those in Christ sin?
    I know that I have sinned since I was saved. Does that mean that I am not in Christ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    "Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God" (2 Cor.7:1).

    In this verse the Greek word translated "let us cleanse" is in the "active" voice:

    "The active voice represents the subject as the doer or performer of the action. e.g., in the sentence, "The boy hit the ball," the boy performs the action"
    (Blue Letter Bible).
    Which fits with "come out from among them and be ye separate".

    I know that I have sinned since I was saved. Does that mean that I am not in Christ?
    No, it just means you haven't yet reckoned yourself to be dead to sin, even though you are alive unto God through Jesus Christ. Simply put, you count sin where the Lord doesn't.

    Remember, he that committeth sin is of the devil.....and such were we at one time.

    1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

    And remember this, most of all.

    1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Which fits with "come out from among them and be ye separate".
    Why would Paul tell them that since they had already come out from among them?

    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    No, it just means you haven't yet reckoned yourself to be dead to sin, even though you are alive unto God through Jesus Christ.
    So a person can be in Christ and at the same time sin.

    Is that walking in the light or walking in darkness?

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    According to you the following words of John are directed toward unbelievers:

    "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 Jn.1:9).

    I don't know about you but I tell unbelievers that a person's sins are forgiven when they believe in the Lord Jesus:

    "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins"
    (Acts 10:43).

    I tell them that upon believing the gospel they have their sins forgiven and nothing more is required in regard to the salvation of the soul.

    Do you just tell them that if they will confess their sins then those sins will be forgiven?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Why would Paul tell them that since they had already come out from among them?
    No, he's telling them when they do come out, that is the result. The old man is put off like a dirty coat....leave it behind. How do we do that? Through the Spirit, not through our own efforts. You know that God must perform that work in us.

    Romans 8:12-13 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

    So a person can be in Christ and at the same time sin.
    No, there is no sin in Him.

    Is that walking in the light or walking in darkness?
    Those in Christ are in the light of LIFE, so our walk is always in the light.

    Man is either in Light or in Darkness.

    In the flesh or in the Spirit.

    Dead in sin or alive in Him.

    Sinner or Saint.

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