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Thread: The Hebrew Epistles and Where Do They Fit?

  1. #106
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Silly, the following words are addressed to those who are already saved and whose faith is spoken of throughout the whole world:

    "The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light. Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof."
    (Ro.13:12-13).

    These people had previously believed and had been baptized into the Body. So Paul is not telling them to do that, as you imagine. You are up to your old tricks again and they are getting old and boring. You said that 1 John 1:9 is written to unbelievers even though John tells us exactly who received his first epistle:

    "I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake"
    (1 Jn.2:12).

    And I will ask again. Can you name even one recognized theologian who agrees with you that the words at 1 John 1:9 are addressed to unbelievers?
    Ask me as many times as you like, Jerry. I will never agree with you that believers walk in darkness, and I will never agree that believers put on the Lord Jesus Christ by setting their affections on things above.

    So, my response to you is that you are more boring than I am.

    Besides which....you are not setting your affections on things above when all you seem capable of doing is charging believers with committing works of darkness...wantonness, drunkenness and rioting. Doesn't sound much like new creatures to me.

  2. #107
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Besides which....you are not setting your affections on things above when all you seem capable of doing is charging believers with committing works of darkness...wantonness, drunkenness and rioting. Doesn't sound much like new creatures to me.
    Your ideas are ridiculous because according to you even though Paul accused Peter of not walking according to the truth of the gospel you say that he was walking in the light!

    You have lost touch with reality!

  3. #108
    Proud customer of Old Glory Robot Insurance. musterion's Avatar
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    How can someone be saved and safe in Christ, including being justified from all things and granted full and free access to God (per Paul), and yet risk not seeing the Lord for not pursuing peaceableness or holiness enough (per Hebrews)?

    How can one risk not seeing the Lord for not pursuing peaceableness and holiness, when Paul says the believers holiness is actually Christ's, and peace is a fruit of His Spirit?


    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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  5. #109
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    How can someone be saved and safe in Christ, including being justified from all things and granted full and free access to God (per Paul), and yet risk not seeing the Lord for not pursuing peaceableness or holiness enough (per Hebrews)?
    So you don't think that those who received the Hebrew epistles had accesss to God despite what they are told here?:

    "Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh"
    (Heb.10:19-20).

    Of course the word "holiest" is not in regard to the most holy place in the Temple because only the Levitical high priest had access there, and only once a year. The word "holiest" at Hebrews 10:19-20 refers to the dwelling place of the LORD. And the "throne" in the following verse is speaking of the heavenly throne:

    "Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need"
    (Heb.4:16).

    I get an idea that you have never even read the book of Hebrews since you remain ignorant about these facts.

  6. #110
    Proud customer of Old Glory Robot Insurance. musterion's Avatar
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    Still dodging straight questions? You've become a troll. Don't know how are why but that is how you seem now.
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

  7. #111
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Still dodging straight questions? You've become a troll. Don't know how are why but that is how you seem now.
    I just thought that I would show you that they had access to the heavenly throne but you don't care.

    Who else but those in the Body have access to the Most Holy in heaven?

    You think that you rightly divide but all you prove is that you can't tell the difference between heavenly things and earthly things.

    Pitiful!

  8. #112
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Your ideas are ridiculous because according to you even though Paul accused Peter of not walking according to the truth of the gospel you say that he was walking in the light!

    You have lost touch with reality!
    You sure do a lot of accusing. How about you tell me exactly what Peter did to be accused by Paul of not walking according to the truth of the Gospel? Tell me EXACTLY what it was....specifically.

    I'll wait.

  9. #113
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    I get an idea that you have never even read the book of Hebrews since you remain ignorant about these facts.
    I get an idea you are having some personal problems in your life, Jerry, that you have become so divisive of late.

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  11. #114
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    I just thought that I would show you that they had access to the heavenly throne but you don't care.

    Who else but those in the Body have access to the Most Holy in heaven?

    You think that you rightly divide but all you prove is that you can't tell the difference between heavenly things and earthly things.

    Pitiful!
    All men now have access through Christ's death on the cross, but not all men are baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ.

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  13. #115
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    You sure do a lot of accusing. How about you tell me exactly what Peter did to be accused by Paul of not walking according to the truth of the Gospel? Tell me EXACTLY what it was....specifically.
    No matter exactly what Peter did Paul said that he was to be blamed. But according to you Peter was walking in the light even though Paul said that he was to be blamed. You make no sense at all. According to you he deserved no blame because he didn't sin.

    According to you even though Paul said that Peter was NOT walking according to the truth of the gospel you stand reason on its head by saying that Peter was walking in the light.

    Your argument is not with me but instead with Paul. And you lose that argument with your nonsense.

    And to make it worse, even though John's first epistle was written to those who had already had their sins forgiven (1 Jn.2:12) you want us to throw our reason to the wind and accept your fairy tale that 1 John 1:9 was written to unbelievers.

    And when asked to just name one recognized theologian who agrees with your silly idea you have continued to come up empty. I am tryng to pinpoint what cult you follow but so far you won't even give me a clue as to which one it is.

  14. #116
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    All men now have access through Christ's death on the cross, but not all men are baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ.
    We know that the first century Jewish believers were baptized into the Body of Christ (1 Cor.12:13) and there is nothing which even hints that only some of them were baptized into the Body. According to you the authors of the Hebrew epistles were not baptized into the Body even though other Jewish believers were.

    So give me the Scriptures which you think prove that only some of them were members of the Body and others were not. I have already shown from the Scriptures that those who received the Hebrew epistles were eagerly waiting for an imminent appearance of the Lord Jesus and only those in the Body were waiting for that appearance. And so far you have not been able to answer those facts.

    Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    I get an idea you are having some personal problems in your life, Jerry, that you have become so divisive of late.
    I get this sort of nonsense all the time. When someone cannot answer the message in their desperation they attack the messenger.

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