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Thread: Did Ron Wyatt really find the Ark of the Covenant?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chair View Post
    did he have official permission?
    There is film of him stating he had official permission but what would convince you that he actually dug there?

    A: A piece of paper saying he had permission.

    B: Film of him stating he had permission.

    C: Film of him actually digging there.

    Think carefully, which one would prove he actually dug there?

    If you think the permission is more important than the fact he can be seen digging there then you are missing the point. The point is he was there digging. This alone should tell you that he had permission. Do you really think he could get away with excavation in the Garden tomb area and no one would stop him or even question him? I can't believe anyone could be so naive to think such a thing. I have been there myself. you couldn't do anything destructive there without someone stopping you, not unless no one saw you but then there are people there all the time. Did you actually watch the films??

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    Quote Originally Posted by beameup View Post
    Absolutely nothing concerning the arrest, trial and crucifixion took place west of the Wailing Wall (Western Wall). The "Temple Mount" housed the Roman 10th Legion, consisting of 10,000 soldiers & support.
    The City of David is south of the "Temple Mount". The Temple was located south of the "Temple Mount". The crucifixions took place directly east of the Temple and across the Kidron Valley and at the southern end of the Mount of Olives (in what now is known as Silwan).
    The only thing Ron Wyatt correctly identified is the true Mount Sinai location in Saudi Arabia.
    I have already proven your theory wrong on your own thread three weeks ago:

    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5163744



    As said this inscription found in Hezekiah's tunnel says it was 100 cubits underground = 42.7 meters at the time of its construction. Today the tunnel is 39.6 meters below the ground surface above on the Ophel thus proving it was not a mountain as you claim.

    Besides the Garden tomb is north of the city not west of it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by WatchmanOnTheWall View Post
    I have already proven your theory wrong on your own thread three weeks ago:

    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5163744



    As said this inscription found in Hezekiah's tunnel says it was 100 cubits underground = 42.7 meters at the time of its construction. Today the tunnel is 39.6 meters below the ground surface above on the Ophel thus proving it was not a mountain as you claim.

    Besides the Garden tomb is north of the city not west of it!
    The TRUE Shiloah pool was discovered by Israeli archeologists in 2004. I posted the link and you ignored it.
    The "Garden tomb" has recently been examined by Israeli archeologists and found it is from the FIRST TEMPLE period.
    The "Garden tomb" is WEST and NORTH of the Haram al Sherif (ie: the WESTERN WALL).
    You have ZERO credibility because your sources are charlatans like Derek Walker.

    Have you ever heard of a "map"?
    Last edited by beameup; January 25th, 2018 at 03:02 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beameup View Post
    OK. City of David-"Zion"-Temple are all interrelated within the same area that was formerly the Jebusite walled city, which is about 12-14 acres.

    Roman fortresses throughout the Roman Empire occupied a rectangle of approximately 35 acres. They had 4 gates, normally north, south, east and west and housed a Roman Legion. Legions were 6,000 soldiers with approximately 4,000 support personnel (including prostitutes). They were self-contained "cities". There are 2 Roman aqueducts that supply the Haram al Sherif with water from Bethlehem. These come in from the north-west to Fort Antonia to supply water for the Romans. Additionally many cisterns were built to hold the water.
    The Roman Fortress/Colony lasted approximately 600 years - from the overthrow of the Greek Selucids until the conquering Arabs. Over the centuries "The Mount" has been built up and filled in extensively. During David's conquest it was not inhabited and was nothing more than a large rocky outcropping. The top of the rocky outcropping can be found under the "Dome of the Rock". This area was of no importance to David and Solomon, as the City of David was south of the outcropping and at a lower elevation and the location of the threshing floor of Ornan. Near there was a natural "erupting" siphon spring named Gihon. This was the only naturally occurring "living water" in the area of Moriah. This was necessary due to the tremendous amounts of animal blood which needed to be washed away on a daily basis and for the ritual cleansing of the people.
    Wrong it is historically well documented that Mount Scopus had been strategically important as a base from which to attack the city since antiquity. The 12th Roman Legion camped there in AD 66 and in AD 70 at the conclusion of the same war that led to the destruction of the Jewish Temple, Mount Scopus was used as a base to carry out the final siege of the city by the same 12th Legion, plus the 15th and 5th Legions, while the 10th Legion was positioned on the continuation of the same ridge, known as the Mount of Olives.

    So seeing as this was really where the Roman armies were based at the time of this (and other sieges) then why weren't they on the temple mount all along as you claim? Simply because you are believing fantasies rather than facts.

    The "Western Wall" remains as constructed by Roman Valerius Gratis, coins of 17 CE have been found on the bedrock of the wall. The reason why the "Temple Mount" remains to this day is that it was the city of the Romans who destroyed all of Jerusalem in 70 CE, and again in 135 CE. The Temple Stones are scattered through West Jerusalem, being repurposed, so that none are found in the City of David.
    The exact location of this find is disputed/not clear. You will need to prove exactly where it was found.

    Finally, the Arabs conquered the city. They found an 8 sided building which was of Christian architecture and it had a cross on top. The Arabs put a crescent moon on top and called it the "Dome of the Rock". Neither group knew where the Temple was located because the City of David had been LEVELED to the GROUND.
    Wrong. Again it is well documented in history that the Dome of the Rock was initially completed in 691 CE at the order of Umayyad Caliph Abd al-Malik during the Second Fitna and was built on the site of the Roman temple of Jupiter Capitolinus, which had in turn been built on the site of the Second Jewish Temple, destroyed during the Roman Siege of Jerusalem in 70 CE. The original dome collapsed in 1015 and was rebuilt in 1022–23.


    The Roman Emperor's mother came to Jerusalem about 326 CE and made guesses where certain historical sites were. This included the Church of the Holy Sepulcre where she claimed the crucifixion took place. This location is WEST of the City of David. She guessed that the "Dome of the Rock" was where the Temple had been located. These sites became the official Catholic sites after her trip. And so it remains, a pilgrimage in approximately 326 CE by the Roman Emperor's mother is the basis of "tradition".
    The Dome of the Rock was not even there when Empress Helen went to Jerusalem. But yes she only guessed where everything was and got everything wrong!

    And please respect the OP, this debate belongs on your thread here: http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5163744

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    Quote Originally Posted by beameup View Post
    The TRUE Shiloah pool was discovered by Israeli archeologists in 2004. I posted the link and you ignored it.
    The "Garden tomb" has recently been examined by Israeli archeologists and found it is from the FIRST TEMPLE period.
    The "Garden tomb" is WEST and NORTH of the Haram al Sherif (ie: the WESTERN WALL).
    You have ZERO credibility because your sources are charlatans.

    Have you ever heard of a "map"?
    The Shiloh pool (Pool of Siloam) is not a tunnel! Here is a map of the tunnel where you claim a mountain was but history proves it wasn't:



    You have completely ignored the fact that the people who built this tunnel under where you say there was a mountain left an inscription in side the tunnel:



    Which states it was 42 meters below the surface. Today it is only 39 meters under the surface. That is only a 3 meter difference in case you didn't know. The minimum height for a mountain is 300 meters. Can you see where you are going wrong?

    Also to be more accurate the Garden tomb site is north, north, west and not north west of the Dome of the Rock.

    And for the final time please respect the OP, this debate belongs on your thread here: http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5163744

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    Quote Originally Posted by WatchmanOnTheWall View Post
    The Shiloh pool (Pool of Siloam) is not a tunnel! Here is a map of the tunnel where you claim a mountain was but history proves it wasn't:

    Sorry, but your posts are totally incomprehensible; you are mixing "tunnels" with "Zion", and other confusing mismatches and totally misquoting my posts.
    Your guru Derek Walker has really put you through the mixer. How much money have you sent him?
    BTW, You keep mentioning "Cornuke", "Cornuke", "Cornuke"
    Dr. Ernest L. Martin did the essential work on the "Temples that Jerusalem Forgot" concerning the correct location of the Temples. I suggest you read it instead of sending money to Derek Walker (aka: Charlatan).

    PS: Your "map" (as is your other info) is way outdated. The Pool of Siloam wasn't correctly identified until 2004.
    Last edited by beameup; January 25th, 2018 at 02:48 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WatchmanOnTheWall View Post
    There is film of him stating he had official permission but what would convince you that he actually dug there?

    A: A piece of paper saying he had permission.

    B: Film of him stating he had permission.

    C: Film of him actually digging there.

    Think carefully, which one would prove he actually dug there?

    If you think the permission is more important than the fact he can be seen digging there then you are missing the point. The point is he was there digging. This alone should tell you that he had permission. Do you really think he could get away with excavation in the Garden tomb area and no one would stop him or even question him? I can't believe anyone could be so naive to think such a thing. I have been there myself. you couldn't do anything destructive there without someone stopping you, not unless no one saw you but then there are people there all the time. Did you actually watch the films??
    The man was, shall we say, unreliable. If he dug, it was without permission. Here are some relevant quotations:
    The Garden Tomb Association of Jerusalem state in a letter they issue to visitors on
    request:

    The Council of the Garden Tomb Association (London) totally refute the claim of Mr
    Wyatt to have discovered the original Ark of the Covenant or any other biblical artefacts
    within the boundaries of the area known as the Garden Tomb Jerusalem. Though Mr
    Wyatt was allowed to dig within this privately owned garden on a number of occasions
    (the last occasion being the summer of 1991) staff members of the Association
    observed his progress and entered his excavated shaft. As far as we are aware nothing
    was ever discovered to support his claims nor have we seen any evidence of biblical
    artefacts or temple treasures.
    Archaeologist Joe Zias, Curator of Anthropology/Archaeology at the Israel Antiquities
    Authority has stated that,

    Ron Wyatt is neither an archaeologist nor has he ever carried out a legally licensed
    excavation in Israel or Jerusalem. In order to excavate one must have at least a BA in
    archaeology which he does not possess despite his claims to the contrary. ... [His
    claims] fall into the category of trash which one finds in tabloids such as the National
    Enquirer, Sun etc. It's amazing that anyone would believe them. Furthermore, he has
    been thoroughly discredited by various Christian organisations such as Creation
    Research in Calif. For the latest on his "discoveries" I suggest going into the WWW
    (use Vista) someone called Tentmaker decided to do an expose of his various claims.
    Here you will find the truth, which is more amazing that his (RW) fictions.20

    Amateurs are not allowed to excavate in Israel. If they do so- they do so illegally. Ans yes- that happens.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to chair For Your Post:

    beameup (January 25th, 2018)

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    Quote Originally Posted by chair View Post
    The man was, shall we say, unreliable. If he dug, it was without permission. Here are some relevant quotations:
    The Garden Tomb Association of Jerusalem state in a letter they issue to visitors on
    request:

    The Council of the Garden Tomb Association (London) totally refute the claim of Mr
    Wyatt to have discovered the original Ark of the Covenant or any other biblical artefacts
    within the boundaries of the area known as the Garden Tomb Jerusalem. Though Mr
    Wyatt was allowed to dig within this privately owned garden on a number of occasions
    (the last occasion being the summer of 1991) staff members of the Association
    observed his progress and entered his excavated shaft. As far as we are aware nothing
    was ever discovered to support his claims nor have we seen any evidence of biblical
    artefacts or temple treasures.
    Archaeologist Joe Zias, Curator of Anthropology/Archaeology at the Israel Antiquities
    Authority has stated that,

    Ron Wyatt is neither an archaeologist nor has he ever carried out a legally licensed
    excavation in Israel or Jerusalem. In order to excavate one must have at least a BA in
    archaeology which he does not possess despite his claims to the contrary. ... [His
    claims] fall into the category of trash which one finds in tabloids such as the National
    Enquirer, Sun etc. It's amazing that anyone would believe them. Furthermore, he has
    been thoroughly discredited by various Christian organisations such as Creation
    Research in Calif. For the latest on his "discoveries" I suggest going into the WWW
    (use Vista) someone called Tentmaker decided to do an expose of his various claims.
    Here you will find the truth, which is more amazing that his (RW) fictions.20

    Amateurs are not allowed to excavate in Israel. If they do so- they do so illegally. Ans yes- that happens.
    I notice you evaded the pertinent questions so I will ask you again:

    In the video is Ron Wyatt seen working at an excavation in the Garden Tomb area: Yes or No?

    If yes do you think he had permission to dig there: Yes or No?

    If no why wasn't he stopped?

    If yes why are they now lying about it?

    Perhaps if you watch this you will understand why:


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    Quote Originally Posted by beameup View Post
    Sorry, but your posts are totally incomprehensible; you are mixing "tunnels" with "Zion", and other confusing mismatches and totally misquoting my posts.
    Your guru Derek Walker has really put you through the mixer. How much money have you sent him?
    BTW, You keep mentioning "Cornuke", "Cornuke", "Cornuke"
    Dr. Ernest L. Martin did the essential work on the "Temples that Jerusalem Forgot" concerning the correct location of the Temples. I suggest you read it instead of sending money to Derek Walker (aka: Charlatan).

    PS: Your "map" (as is your other info) is way outdated. The Pool of Siloam wasn't correctly identified until 2004.
    Zion was the hill where Jebus was located and which David conquered and where he built His Palace. Zachariah Tunnel was dug beneath this hill from the Gihon spring to the pool of Siloam as show on the map. At the time it was built the builders left that inscription stating the tunnel was 42 meter below the surface of Mount Zion. Today it has hardly changed, being now 39 meters.

    Your claim that there was a much taller mountain at this location which was destroyed in 70 AD by the Romans has no basis in history or fact. It is all in your imagination. The fact you can't support you argument neither here nor on your own thread (where it be longs - for which I have reported you for now) but instead you try to make more wild and false accusations against me just shows even more your loose grip on reality. Please stop showing yourself up for your own sake.

    Dr. Ernest L. Martin made an honest mistake, Cornuke is dishonestly or ignorantly making money out of it. Dr Derek Walker is trying to set that mistake right. You are arguing for the side of the mistaken and ignorant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WatchmanOnTheWall View Post
    Dr. Ernest L. Martin made an honest mistake, Cornuke is dishonestly or ignorantly making money out of it. Dr Derek Walker is trying to set that mistake right. You are arguing for the side of the mistaken and ignorant.
    The Imminent Invasion of Israel by Derek Walker
    A Panorama of Prophecy by Derek Walker
    These explain Walkers motive for discrediting recent archeological discoveries.
    Walker is simply trying to protect his income from his books and keep receiving "donations".
    Unfortunately, Walker depended upon old orthodoxy and outdated archeology for his books,
    rather than doing the hard work personal research and incorporating recent archeological findings.

    PS: The Mountains of Moriah consist of a cluster of hills. The Jebusite town was actually built between two mounts, one on the north and one on the south. However, the Jebusite wall enclosed only the southern mount, and that is where David built his Citadel. This southern mount was completely removed by the Greeks (Selucids) 2 centuries BC. The dirt was moved westward to fill-in the Valley of the Cheesemongers to expand Jerusalem westward. This is HISTORICAL information from the Maccabees.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WatchmanOnTheWall View Post
    I notice you evaded the pertinent questions so I will ask you again:

    In the video is Ron Wyatt seen working at an excavation in the Garden Tomb area: Yes or No?
    He is certainly digging somewhere. I cannot judge from the video where.
    Quote Originally Posted by WatchmanOnTheWall View Post

    If yes do you think he had permission to dig there: Yes or No?
    No.
    Quote Originally Posted by WatchmanOnTheWall View Post

    If no why wasn't he stopped?
    Because the IAA doesn't have the resources to stop every illegal excavation.
    Quote Originally Posted by WatchmanOnTheWall View Post

    If yes why are they now lying about it?
    Since they didn't give permission,
    they aren't lying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beameup View Post
    The Imminent Invasion of Israel by Derek Walker
    A Panorama of Prophecy by Derek Walker
    These explain Walkers motive for discrediting recent archeological discoveries.
    Walker is simply trying to protect his income from his books and keep receiving "donations".
    Unfortunately, Walker depended upon old orthodoxy and outdated archeology for his books,
    rather than doing the hard work personal research and incorporating recent archeological findings.
    I defeated this nonsense on your thread here which you failed to respond to: http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5163704

    And I notice you failed to respond again to my other points.

    PS: The Mountains of Moriah consist of a cluster of hills. The Jebusite town was actually built between two mounts, one on the north and one on the south. However, the Jebusite wall enclosed only the southern mount, and that is where David built his Citadel. This southern mount was completely removed by the Greeks (Selucids) 2 centuries BC. The dirt was moved westward to fill-in the Valley of the Cheesemongers to expand Jerusalem westward. This is HISTORICAL information from the Maccabees.
    I know what 2 Samuel 5 says thank you.

    However, please provide these verse in Maccabees?

    The Hezekiah tunnel inscription was made 300 years before your 'zion mountain' claim and therefore it would have meant dismantling Zerubbabel's temple, creating a 'mountain' and then re-assembling Zerubbabel's temple on this supposed 'mountain'. Only for it all to be removed by the Greeks and then Zerubbabel's temple re-assembled a second time??

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    Quote Originally Posted by chair View Post
    He is certainly digging somewhere. I cannot judge from the video where.
    Ahhr this is where you are going wrong then but to be fair it is not the best footage of the dig, although to anyone who knows the Garden Tomb site well it is clear that it is indeed the Garden Tomb site. However, there is better footage which his wife Nell also took, where she did a small tour of the site which i will also try to find. I have watched dozens of films taken in the Garden Tomb area and have even been there myself, so I know it very well.

    In this film it also explains why they are lying and what the site looked like in 2015:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KK7TbvAvUE

    And this is what it looked like in 2004: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vty8AJYbvoY

    And what it looked like in 2008: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glZ1...E33DA027C20CD1

    And as I showed you here from one of Ron's digs in 1989, at 3:15 mins you can clearly see the top of the arched niches that can be seen in all these videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkXwNHOhuVg


    They know it's there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj3ajUZ7-Hc
    Last edited by WatchmanOnTheWall; January 30th, 2018 at 01:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WatchmanOnTheWall View Post
    The Hezekiah tunnel inscription was made 300 years before your 'zion mountain' claim and therefore it would have meant dismantling Zerubbabel's temple, creating a 'mountain' and then re-assembling Zerubbabel's temple on this supposed 'mountain'. Only for it all to be removed by the Greeks and then Zerubbabel's temple re-assembled a second time??
    Gibberish.
    Obviously you only know what your guru Derek Walker has told you.
    You obviously haven't seen a map or drawing of the Jebusite "City of David".

    PS: The Garden Tomb has recently been dated to the 1st Temple period by Israeli Antiquities.

    PPS: The Pool of Siloam wasn't discovered until 2004 (Israeli archeology)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    The blurred photos are terrible and could be anything.

    He said he has clear photos, but has not shown them.
    Something fishy here.
    Yeah, he's a straight up and down liar.

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