User Tag List

Page 7 of 67 FirstFirst ... 456789101757 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 998

Thread: The Vicarious Life and Death of Christ for the Believer

  1. #91
    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Heavenly Places
    Posts
    17,747
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 12,353 Times in 8,605 Posts

    Mentioned
    101 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147854
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    The law has been fulfilled and abolished, Ephesians 2:15.
    Your assertion that the law has been abolished is a satanic lie, Pate, from the pits of hell, and Ephesians 2:15 KJV, which you reference, says no such thing, deceiver.
    Saint John W

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to john w For Your Post:

    Tambora (January 29th, 2018)

  3. #92
    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Heavenly Places
    Posts
    17,747
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 12,353 Times in 8,605 Posts

    Mentioned
    101 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147854
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    "To declare, I say, at this time HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS: that he might be just, and THE JUSTIFIER of him that believes in Jesus" Romans 3:26.

    This scripture plainly teaches that we are justified by the righteousness of Christ. A righteous person is one that is 100% obedient to God's holy law. Jesus in our name and on our behalf, fulfilled all of the demands of God's law and in doing so justified us.


    If Jesus had failed to keep the law, where would we be?
    The deceiver still does not get it.


    Keeping the law, with "100% compliance," "100% obedient to God's holy law," Pate, is not the righteousness of God-it's just doing what it is required.

    Hebrews 7:19 KJV For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.


    Moron, explaining your made up, satanic "doctrine."
    Last edited by john w; January 26th, 2018 at 04:40 PM.
    Saint John W

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to john w For Your Post:

    Tambora (January 29th, 2018)

  5. #93
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Eau Claire, WI
    Posts
    13,937
    Thanks
    182
    Thanked 1,759 Times in 1,458 Posts

    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    354741
    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    Your assertion that the law has been abolished is a satanic lie, Pate, from the pits of hell, and Ephesians 2:15 KJV, which you reference, says no such thing, deceiver.
    The law has been abolished for Christians. The Bible teaches that.

    Ephesians 2:15.
    Colossians 2:14.
    Hebrews 8:13.
    2 Corinthians 3:13.
    Romans 6:14.
    Romans 7:6.

    "Tell me that you desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?" Galatians 4:21.

  6. #94
    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Heavenly Places
    Posts
    17,747
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 12,353 Times in 8,605 Posts

    Mentioned
    101 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147854
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    The law has been abolished for Christians. The Bible teaches that.

    Ephesians 2:15.
    Colossians 2:14.
    Hebrews 8:13.
    2 Corinthians 3:13.
    Romans 6:14.
    Romans 7:6.

    You lied again, Pate-Cannot ignore me, eh, Pate?

    1.None of the above verses, deceiver, and no scripture asserts that the law was abolished, habitual liar, and Ephesians 2:15 KJV/Colossians 2:14 KJV are not referring to God's holy law, as you've been shown, despite daddy devil telling you they do,butcher of the book Pate, sloppy one-you satanically made it up.

    -"Abolished for Christians" is a nonsensical type of statement, making the term "abolish" superfluous.

    -"Abolished for Christians"

    Christians were never under the law, so your "for" is meaningless.Survey 1 Timothy 1:9 KJV

    The law applies only to the lost.

    2.Christians are not under the law, as "a rule of life,"but that is not equivalent to the law being abolished, as you ignorantly assert, Gomer Pate. You're such a biblical illiterate, you invent the meaning, pervert the meaning of biblical words. Slower, moron-the law was not abolished-it still exists.


    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    "Tell me that you desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?" Galatians 4:21.

    As I've told you, false accuser-I've never asserted that Christians are under the law, so knock it off, with your straw man, you deceiver. And even though believers are not under the law, that does not mean the law was done away with, does not exist, as you keep satanically asserting.



    Pate:"Who was delivered for our offenses, and who obeyed the law for our justification."


    =satanic
    Last edited by john w; January 26th, 2018 at 04:38 PM.
    Saint John W

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to john w For Your Post:

    Tambora (January 29th, 2018)

  8. #95
    ☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) ☜☜☜☜☞☞☞☞ A Calvinist! ☜☜☜☜☜ Ask Mr. Religion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Chandler, Arizona USA
    Posts
    6,821
    Thanks
    4,512
    Thanked 3,976 Times in 2,278 Posts

    Blog Entries
    148
    Mentioned
    88 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)



    Rep Power
    2147693

    Lightbulb Active and Passive Obedience of Our Lord Propitiates the Wrath of God

    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    And? Pay attention to the argument.
    Would that you take your own frequently offered advice.

    All men are under the Covenant of Works unless they are saved by the Mediator of the Covenant of Grace. If a non-believer refuses to call upon the name of the Lord and be saved, he will be judged by what his words, deeds, and thoughts, hence, Covenant of Works. We know that no one can perfectly keep the moral law. Adam could not even keep one, the First one, preferring to be a god unto himself, thinking he knew more than the God to whom He owed his duty.

    [Speaking strictly, Adam was not offered "salvation," but consummation. There is a difference. He could and would have earned, merited, consummation by his obedience just as the second Adam Jesus earned, merited our justification and glorification.]

    The Fall did not abrogate the duty of men to keep the Law—two "tables" [the tablets] of the Decalogue: moral laws (not the ceremonial foreshadowings) concerning duty to God, duty to fellow man—later summarized by Our Lord (Matthew 22:37-39). Perfect obedience is still required before God. God’s character does not change, and He still speaks to mankind as if men are not fallen (James 1:17; Romans 8:4). The Law is the perfect reflection of the character and will of God which binds all rational creatures in perfect conformity in character and conduct.

    Perfect obedience is still necessary to obtain eternal life (Galatians 5:3). Disobedience is still punished by death. The obligation to obey the Law is founded principally upon God, not “a covenant.” Men are unable to keep the Law as sinners, but inability does not negate their responsibility to obey.

    Does the coming of Christ and the Gospel abrogate the duty to keep the law? No.

    The existence of the Covenant of Grace confirms the Covenant of Works.


    Perfect obedience is required to obtain eternal life because Christ's life and death were necessary to redeem His people. The Covenant of Grace demonstrates the need to uphold the righteous character of God. The fruit of Christ's work does not change the law, but changes the sinner. Jesus comes to fulfill the law (Matthew 5:17; Colossians 1:13). In His role as our substitute, of course, Christ is made under the law. Just as, with reference to human nature, what is not assumed is not redeemed, we can also say with regard to how we are circumstanced, that what was not shared was not defeated: and so Christ was subjected to the attacks of the devil, temptation, cruelty, the curse of the law, death itself - that He might triumph over them all as our head.

    The Law cannot change because God does not change. This is critical to understanding the Covenant of Works. Instead, there remains a renewed statement of man’s miserable condition all through Scripture (Deuteronomy 30:9-10; John 7:19).

    James 2:10, “For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all."

    Jesus is "made of woman, made under the law, to redeem them who were under the law." He voluntarily subjects Himself under the law—not because He must fulfill it in order to qualify Himself (as some have argued) for His role; His obedience is not for himself—but in order to grant us credit for obedience, our empty balance sheets. Such is the "active obedience" of Christ.

    We identify His passive obedience as that suffering He underwent, the penalty for all of our transgressions. This is the debt-ledger, the red ink of what we owed as tribute. Whence cometh the work of positive requirement? Nothing we offer comes up worthy, everything is substandard, mixed with sin so that we should repent of our obedience (so-called).

    Jesus' being under the law, therefore, is not to fulfill the Covenant of Works for His own Person, or because He owes this obedience as a mere creation. His obedience was perfect from all eternity, His humanity was perfectly qualified for a sacrifice at His moment of conception. Nor was there any probation in His living a life of humiliation for some 33 and 1/2 years. Jesus is in all important ways exactly "like us," He became one of us in both body and soul. His humanity is not unique.

    But in certain ways, Jesus is not exactly like us; He is better that our first representative, Adam. 1 Cor. 15:47, "The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven." Not simply that He is now glorified in his human nature, for in due time "we shall be like him" as He is now. But that Jesus possesses particular qualities that suit one of His supreme dignity and office. Humans mimic this kind of exaltation when they put certain men on pedestals; but our ranks and orders-of-being are unworthy of notice, compared to Christ.

    It is because of who Jesus is, not simply what He accomplished, that He is so suitable a Mediator, and was constituted the Head of a new human-race, under the auspices of the Covenant of Grace.

    Our Lord's active and passive obedience is the propitiation of the wrath of God for sin. His righteousness is what is therefore imputed to us. An infelicitous use of phrases like "His law-keeping is imputed" needs great qualification before anyone could even begin to understand what was being intended. Unfortunately, Robert tends to blog and then move along. The cross-examination he is receiving for these sweeping ill-formed statements is not uncommon. Rather, it is just being done by others than his usual interlocutor...me.

    AMR
    Embedded links in my posts or in my sig below are included for a reason. Tolle Lege.



    Do you confess?
    Founder, Reformed Theology Institute
    AMR's Randomata Blog
    Learn Reformed Doctrine
    I fear explanations explanatory of things explained.
    Christian, catholic, Calvinist, confessional, Presbyterian (PCA).
    Lex orandi, lex credenda: everyone is a Calvinist on their knees.
    The best TOL Social Group: here.
    If your username appears in blue and you have over 500 posts:
    Why?



  9. #96
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Eau Claire, WI
    Posts
    13,937
    Thanks
    182
    Thanked 1,759 Times in 1,458 Posts

    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    354741
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    Would that you take your own frequently offered advice.

    All men are under the Covenant of Works unless they are saved by the Mediator of the Covenant of Grace. If a non-believer refuses to call upon the name of the Lord and be saved, he will be judged by what his words, deeds, and thoughts, hence, Covenant of Works. We know that no one can perfectly keep the moral law. Adam could not even keep one, the First one, preferring to be a god unto himself, thinking he knew more than the God to whom He owed his duty.

    [Speaking strictly, Adam was not offered "salvation," but consummation. There is a difference. He could and would have earned, merited, consummation by his obedience just as the second Adam Jesus earned, merited our justification and glorification.]

    The Fall did not abrogate the duty of men to keep the Law—two "tables" [the tablets] of the Decalogue: moral laws (not the ceremonial foreshadowings) concerning duty to God, duty to fellow man—later summarized by Our Lord (Matthew 22:37-39). Perfect obedience is still required before God. God’s character does not change, and He still speaks to mankind as if men are not fallen (James 1:17; Romans 8:4). The Law is the perfect reflection of the character and will of God which binds all rational creatures in perfect conformity in character and conduct.

    Perfect obedience is still necessary to obtain eternal life (Galatians 5:3). Disobedience is still punished by death. The obligation to obey the Law is founded principally upon God, not “a covenant.” Men are unable to keep the Law as sinners, but inability does not negate their responsibility to obey.

    Does the coming of Christ and the Gospel abrogate the duty to keep the law? No.

    The existence of the Covenant of Grace confirms the Covenant of Works.


    Perfect obedience is required to obtain eternal life because Christ's life and death were necessary to redeem His people. The Covenant of Grace demonstrates the need to uphold the righteous character of God. The fruit of Christ's work does not change the law, but changes the sinner. Jesus comes to fulfill the law (Matthew 5:17; Colossians 1:13). In His role as our substitute, of course, Christ is made under the law. Just as, with reference to human nature, what is not assumed is not redeemed, we can also say with regard to how we are circumstanced, that what was not shared was not defeated: and so Christ was subjected to the attacks of the devil, temptation, cruelty, the curse of the law, death itself - that He might triumph over them all as our head.

    The Law cannot change because God does not change. This is critical to understanding the Covenant of Works. Instead, there remains a renewed statement of man’s miserable condition all through Scripture (Deuteronomy 30:9-10; John 7:19).

    James 2:10, “For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all."

    Jesus is "made of woman, made under the law, to redeem them who were under the law." He voluntarily subjects Himself under the law—not because He must fulfill it in order to qualify Himself (as some have argued) for His role; His obedience is not for himself—but in order to grant us credit for obedience, our empty balance sheets. Such is the "active obedience" of Christ.

    We identify His passive obedience as that suffering He underwent, the penalty for all of our transgressions. This is the debt-ledger, the red ink of what we owed as tribute. Whence cometh the work of positive requirement? Nothing we offer comes up worthy, everything is substandard, mixed with sin so that we should repent of our obedience (so-called).

    Jesus' being under the law, therefore, is not to fulfill the Covenant of Works for His own Person, or because He owes this obedience as a mere creation. His obedience was perfect from all eternity, His humanity was perfectly qualified for a sacrifice at His moment of conception. Nor was there any probation in His living a life of humiliation for some 33 and 1/2 years. Jesus is in all important ways exactly "like us," He became one of us in both body and soul. His humanity is not unique.

    But in certain ways, Jesus is not exactly like us; He is better that our first representative, Adam. 1 Cor. 15:47, "The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven." Not simply that He is now glorified in his human nature, for in due time "we shall be like him" as He is now. But that Jesus possesses particular qualities that suit one of His supreme dignity and office. Humans mimic this kind of exaltation when they put certain men on pedestals; but our ranks and orders-of-being are unworthy of notice, compared to Christ.

    It is because of who Jesus is, not simply what He accomplished, that He is so suitable a Mediator, and was constituted the Head of a new human-race, under the auspices of the Covenant of Grace.

    Our Lord's active and passive obedience is the propitiation of the wrath of God for sin. His righteousness is what is therefore imputed to us. An infelicitous use of phrases like "His law-keeping is imputed" needs great qualification before anyone could even begin to understand what was being intended. Unfortunately, Robert tends to blog and then move along. The cross-examination he is receiving for these sweeping ill-formed statements is not uncommon. Rather, it is just being done by others than his usual interlocutor...me.

    AMR

    All of that and you did not address the real issue. Has the law been abolished? Are Christians still under the law and subject to it?

  10. #97
    ☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) ☜☜☜☜☞☞☞☞ A Calvinist! ☜☜☜☜☜ Ask Mr. Religion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Chandler, Arizona USA
    Posts
    6,821
    Thanks
    4,512
    Thanked 3,976 Times in 2,278 Posts

    Blog Entries
    148
    Mentioned
    88 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)



    Rep Power
    2147693
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    All of that and you did not address the real issue. Has the law been abolished? Are Christians still under the law and subject to it?
    Robert,

    That you ask this informs me you did not actually read my post carefully. I realize your attention span is limited to only short snippets of weighty matters, in spite of your usual lengthy opening blog posts in new threads. Odd that you expect others to read your wordy opening posts, yet when someone responds in kind, you immediately take offense and seek shelter from having to respond substantively behind their "longwindedness". Rather, try to read carefully when someone responds to your opinions in your "articles".

    The answer....

    The moral law contained in the two tables of the Law, summarized by Our Lord as the first and second great commandments, is not abrogated (repealed). I clearly stated so in my post. We are subject to the moral law in the sense that we have a duty to obey the moral law. Christians are not "subject to the law" for salvific matters. True believers will have no problem with this, for they will want to keep the moral laws out of love and duty to Our Lord, repenting when they fail to measure up to them, too.

    As to being "under the law", Christians are not, if by the phrase, you assume the law bears some salvific content for the believer. Such an erroneous assumption would lead one to say:
    By "under the law" or "subject to the law" it is meant that by the Christians' keeping of the moral laws, they will keep themselves saved.

    This is nonsensical. I assume you are not making such a claim, despite how infelicitous some of the wording in your posts may be.

    Asked and answered...again.

    AMR
    Embedded links in my posts or in my sig below are included for a reason. Tolle Lege.



    Do you confess?
    Founder, Reformed Theology Institute
    AMR's Randomata Blog
    Learn Reformed Doctrine
    I fear explanations explanatory of things explained.
    Christian, catholic, Calvinist, confessional, Presbyterian (PCA).
    Lex orandi, lex credenda: everyone is a Calvinist on their knees.
    The best TOL Social Group: here.
    If your username appears in blue and you have over 500 posts:
    Why?



  11. #98
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Eau Claire, WI
    Posts
    13,937
    Thanks
    182
    Thanked 1,759 Times in 1,458 Posts

    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    354741
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    Robert,

    That you ask this informs me you did not actually read my post carefully. I realize your attention span is limited to only short snippets of weighty matters, in spite of your usual lengthy opening blog posts in new threads. Odd that you expect others to read your wordy opening posts, yet when someone responds in kind, you immediately take offense and seek shelter from having to respond substantively behind their "longwindedness". Rather, try to read carefully when someone responds to your opinions in your "articles".

    The answer....

    The moral law contained in the two tables of the Law, summarized by Our Lord as the first and second great commandments, is not abrogated (repealed). I clearly stated so in my post. We are subject to the moral law in the sense that we have a duty to obey the moral law. Christians are not "subject to the law" for salvific matters. True believers will have no problem with this, for they will want to keep the moral laws out of love and duty to Our Lord, repenting when they fail to measure up to them, too.

    As to being "under the law", Christians are not, if by the phrase, you assume the law bears some salvific content for the believer. Such an erroneous assumption would lead one to say:
    By "under the law" or "subject to the law" it is meant that by the Christians' keeping of the moral laws, they will keep themselves saved.

    This is nonsensical. I assume you are not making such a claim, despite how infelicitous some of the wording in your posts may be.

    Asked and answered...again.

    AMR

    Just as I suspected. You are under the law. Religious people like yourself cannot accept the fact that the law has been abolished. All of it. We do not keep ourselves saved. How are you going to keep yourself saved? Of course, by the works of the law, what else?

    When we come to Christ to be saved by him, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13 and are placed "In Christ" there is no unsealing. Once sealed always sealed. This is how we are sanctified in Christ, 1 Corinthians 1:30. It is all of God.

  12. #99
    TOL Legend musterion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    21,252
    Thanks
    3,989
    Thanked 19,550 Times in 11,305 Posts

    Blog Entries
    4
    Mentioned
    61 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147755
    Pate,

    Do you acknowledge the possibility that your claim "the Law has been abolished" and the Pauline truth that the believer, counted as having died with Christ, is dead to Law, are not the same thing?
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to musterion For Your Post:

    Tambora (January 29th, 2018)

  14. #100
    TOL Legend musterion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    21,252
    Thanks
    3,989
    Thanked 19,550 Times in 11,305 Posts

    Blog Entries
    4
    Mentioned
    61 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147755
    Still waiting for chapter and verse on believers being saved by His earthly walk AND His death.
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to musterion For Your Post:

    Tambora (January 29th, 2018)

  16. #101
    TOL Legend
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    near Olympic National Park
    Posts
    13,718
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 718 Times in 635 Posts

    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    206933
    Mt 3:16
    Rom 5:10

    There's no sacrifice without a spotless lamb, if you know your old covenant, : )

    Gal 4:4
    Heb 7:16

    In general, any reference to the 'faith/faithfulness' of Christ is referring to his human life lived for us. Gal 2:20, Rom 3:22 (both are objective: they are about Christ's faithfulness to God).

    Heb 5:7-10
    All Lives Matter --Marcus Sanford, youtube.com

  17. #102
    TOL Legend
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    near Olympic National Park
    Posts
    13,718
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 718 Times in 635 Posts

    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    206933
    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Pate,

    Do you acknowledge the possibility that your claim "the Law has been abolished" and the Pauline truth that the believer, counted as having died with Christ, is dead to Law, are not the same thing?





    The NT was written to those in Judaism. Many of its expressions were never meant to be devotional/discipleship imagery for former atheists in the high tech 2018 West. 'Abolish the law, died to the law' has to do with what Judaism had turned it into. I don't mean rituals; that's another problem. They had (Gal 3:17) made it the way in which Abraham's promises would reach the nations, replacing Promise with...you guessed it, Law. Not. They had turned it into a way to obligate God. Not. That was why Paul could call it the 'weak and miserable principles of the world' and yet affirm it ethically. In fact, the Gospel as a message 'upholds' the law, Rom 3:31, because it has to be satisfied.

    Foerster writes of the zealot revolution of the 1st century: what was new about Jesus' preaching was the fact that this divine rule would not be brought about by repentance but that the summons to repentance flowed from the presence of the divine reign. It was exactly the reverse of what the Jews thought right up to the great War and after.

    That was Judaism's fantasy: that God could be obligated. God had already turned things around.
    All Lives Matter --Marcus Sanford, youtube.com

  18. #103
    Over 4000 post club
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,404
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 407 Times in 372 Posts

    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    6505
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Just as I suspected. You are under the law. Religious people like yourself cannot accept the fact that the law has been abolished. All of it. We do not keep ourselves saved. How are you going to keep yourself saved? Of course, by the works of the law, what else?

    When we come to Christ to be saved by him, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13 and are placed "In Christ" there is no unsealing. Once sealed always sealed. This is how we are sanctified in Christ, 1 Corinthians 1:30. It is all of God.
    Here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith OF Jesus Christ.

    If you love me...keep My commandments...I and the Father are ONE...same Law...if you love me...keep...ABIDE in My Love as I abide in His...

    Follow Me...keeps you keeping the Law...Love AS I loved you...keeps you keeping the Law...

    Behold I come quickly and My reward is with Me to give to every one according to his works...which is His yoke to you know DO HIS WILL...works to glorify Him...

    You really think the Spirit you leads you outside the Law? As if lawlessness brings glory...

    Boo Hoo gravity made me fall...when it keeps you

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to clefty For Your Post:

    meshak (January 27th, 2018)

  20. #104
    Over 4000 post club
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,404
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 407 Times in 372 Posts

    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    6505
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    Mt 3:16
    Rom 5:10

    There's no sacrifice without a spotless lamb, if you know your old covenant, : )

    Gal 4:4
    Heb 7:16

    In general, any reference to the 'faith/faithfulness' of Christ is referring to his human life lived for us. Gal 2:20, Rom 3:22 (both are objective: they are about Christ's faithfulness to God).

    Heb 5:7-10
    And still in the new covenant as in the old...no sacrifice for known sin...only the unkown...

    If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, Heb. 10:26

    The known sins were to be accounted for...corrected...

    You steal you pay back with interest and then sacrifice with thanks...

  21. #105
    Over 4000 post club
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,404
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 407 Times in 372 Posts

    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    6505
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The NT was written to those in Judaism. Many of its expressions were never meant to be devotional/discipleship imagery for former atheists in the high tech 2018 West. 'Abolish the law, died to the law' has to do with what Judaism had turned it into. I don't mean rituals; that's another problem. They had (Gal 3:17) made it the way in which Abraham's promises would reach the nations, replacing Promise with...you guessed it, Law. Not. They had turned it into a way to obligate God. Not. That was why Paul could call it the 'weak and miserable principles of the world' and yet affirm it ethically. In fact, the Gospel as a message 'upholds' the law, Rom 3:31, because it has to be satisfied.

    Foerster writes of the zealot revolution of the 1st century: what was new about Jesus' preaching was the fact that this divine rule would not be brought about by repentance but that the summons to repentance flowed from the presence of the divine reign. It was exactly the reverse of what the Jews thought right up to the great War and after.

    That was Judaism's fantasy: that God could be obligated. God had already turned things around.
    I doubt Paul referred to Torah as weak and beggarly elements (idols of material matter)

    I read it as these Gailics are a proud people and were unknown and then known by God for their obedience to Torah but now turn again to the weak and begarly elements of their former culture...if they were turning to Torah it would not be “turn again” as they did not know GOD/TORAH before...and served those which are not gods...

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us