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Thread: The Vicarious Life and Death of Christ for the Believer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    "He who knew no sin became sin for us" 2 Corinthians 5:21. It took a perfect sacrifice to atone for the sins of the world. We don't have it to offer.
    But this is fantastically immoral! If I do wrong, it is up to me to take responsibility and do what I can to make amends. Someone else could pay for my damage, say, but that other person cannot take the responsibility away from me, which is what christianity claims Jesus did.

    It is also immoral that I should accept a human sacrifice in my name as atonement for actions for which I have no responsibility.

    I would have done what I could to stop the execution of Jesus. Would you?

    Stuart

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    God requires two things for the salvation of fallen man.

    1. A life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law.

    =satanic-that is not righteousness, deceiver. Law keeping is not righteousness, Pate-you continue your lies, false assertions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    2. A perfect atonement for man's sins and the sins of the whole world.

    Jesus in our name and on our behalf has victoriously met both of these requirements, Colossians 2:14,15.

    You are the one that is perverting the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
    No, he fulfilled the law, to be the satisfactory sacrifice=propitiation.


    Perverter, as your "vicarious law keeping" is from the pits of hell.
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    We are justified by faith because we are justified by Christ. Jesus justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 by doing for the ungodly what the ungodly cannot do for themselves. The ungodly (us) cannot offer to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law.
    =vicarious law keeping=satanic

    We are justified apart from the law, pervert.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Jesus in our name and on our behalf as our justifier and savior fulfills all of the demands of God's Holy Law for us, just like we did it ourselves.
    Keeping the law is not righteousness, you wicked perverter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    W
    It was this life that justifies the ungodly (us)
    Not his life on earth, pervert-his resurrected life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Because of the righteous life of Jesus that was lived on our behalf..
    We are saved by His resurrected life, not his fulfilling the law on our behalf, wicked liar.Fulfilling the law is not righteousness, pervert.



    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Beware of the doctrine of John w. He is a perverter of the glorious Gospel of Jesus Christ.
    Good one, wicked wolf, perverter.

    _
    Romans 3
    21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
    Saint John W

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    Pate's satanic vicarious law keeping "doctrine,", from hell, was discussed, and challenged/refuted, by others, here, besides myself:


    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...Predestination
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    =vicarious law keeping=satanic

    We are justified apart from the law, pervert.


    Keeping the law is not righteousness, you wicked perverter.


    Not his life on earth, pervert-his resurrected life.



    We are saved by His resurrected life, not his fulfilling the law on our behalf, wicked liar.Fulfilling the law is not righteousness, pervert.





    Good one, wicked wolf, perverter.

    John w's doctrine leaves a vacuum in the believers life that the believer tries to fulfill with his own life, that leads to legalism.

    Jesus, in our name and on our behalf, has satisfied all of the demands of God's holy law for us. The law demands perfection. We don't have it to offer because we are sinners. God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners. God only accepts the works and the obedience of Jesus Christ. We are accepted only in him.

    No one will be saved that has not been justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus. In the judgment God must see us as perfect and complete "In Christ". This is why Paul said, "That I might be found in him" Philippians 3:9. Jesus justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5, not by doing something in them, but by doing something outside of them. We are reconciled to God by the doing and the dying of Jesus. The law has been fulfilled and abolished, Ephesians 2:15. We are complete "In Christ".

    John W. has an abusive spirit that is not Christian. Beware of his doctrine. It is the doctrine of men.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    John w's doctrine leaves a vacuum in the believers life that the believer tries to fulfill with his own life, that leads to legalism.
    Made up. I died at Calvary-dead to the law.

    Fulfilling the law is not righteousness, pervert.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Jesus, in our name and on our behalf, has satisfied all of the demands of God's holy law for us.
    Your "for us" is a subtil, satanic way of asserting that His law keeping made Him righteous, and that His law keeping is imputed to us, to make us righteous.

    That is satanic. The Lord Jesus Christ is righteous, apart from any law law keeping, despite your daddy the devil telling you to keep saying it.

    Romans 3:21 KJV
    But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

    Law keeping is not righteousness, perverter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    The law demands perfection. We don't have it to offer because we are sinners. God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners. God only accepts the works and the obedience of Jesus Christ. We are accepted only in him.]

    Keeping the law, to perfection, Pate, is not the righteousness of God.

    You assert that the Lord Jesus Christ became righteous, by keeping God's holy law=satanic.

    He is righteous, the righteousness of God, because He is God, not because he kept the law.

    Keeping the law does not make anyone righteous, devil child.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    No one will be saved that has not been justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus.
    We are reconciled by Hid death, justified by His resurrected life, apart from the law, pervert.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    In the judgment God must see us as perfect and complete "In Christ". This is why Paul said, "That I might be found in him" Philippians 3:9. Jesus justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5, not by doing something in them, but by doing something outside of them. We are reconciled to God by the doing and the dying of Jesus.
    We are righteous because we are "In Him"-He is our righteousness, but not by keeping the law, pervert.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    The law has been fulfilled and abolished, Ephesians 2:15.
    Ephesians says no such thing.

    1.Pate, on record, asserts that everyone is saved, because if there is no law, as he asserts, there is no law to condemn anyone, and, if there is no law, sin is not imputed, where there is no law.

    1 John 3:4 KJV Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

    Romans 5:13 KJV (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

    2. Tell us, Pate:

    Is murder, rape, theft............................................. .................................................. .......................a sin? Why? No law exists, to define what sin is, according to you....?

    Romans 3:20 KJV Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

    Romans 7 KJV
    7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

    And no law exists, according to you, to make murder, rape, theft a transgression, and no sin can be imputed, if there is no law?



    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    John W. has an abusive spirit that is not Christian. Beware of his doctrine. It is the doctrine of men.
    Stumped me there, with that "the doctrine of men" cliche.


    You spam the doctrines of devils, as your "vicarious law keeping" "doctrine" is from the devil, satanic, from the pits of hell.


    He kept the law for one purpose-to be qualified as "the lamb without blemish/spot"-propitiation.


    You vicarious lawkeeping assertion is from Calvinism, and the pits of hell.
    Saint John W

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    "Crazy Little Thing Called Love"

    This thing called love
    I just can't handle it
    This thing called love
    I must get round to it
    I ain't ready
    Crazy little thing called love

    This thing (this thing) called love (called love)
    It cries (like a baby) in a cradle all night
    It swings (ooh, ooh), it jives (ooh, ooh)
    It shakes all over like a jelly fish,
    I kinda like it
    Crazy little thing called love

    There goes my baby
    She knows how to rock-n-roll
    She drives me crazy
    She gives me hot and cold fever
    She leaves me in a cool, cool sweat

    I gotta be cool, relax, get hip
    Get on my tracks
    Take a back seat, hitch-hike
    And take a long ride on my motorbike
    Until I'm ready
    Crazy little thing called love

    I gotta be cool, relax, get hip
    And get on my tracks
    Take a back seat, hitch-hike
    And take a long ride on my motorbike
    Until I'm ready (Ready Freddie)
    Crazy little thing called love

    This thing called love
    I just can't handle it
    This thing called love
    I must get round to it
    I ain't ready
    Crazy little thing called love [repeat to fade]



    Oh....

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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    Made up. I died at Calvary-dead to the law.

    Fulfilling the law is not righteousness, pervert.


    Your "for us" is a subtil, satanic way of asserting that His law keeping made Him righteous, and that His law keeping is imputed to us, to make us righteous.

    That is satanic. The Lord Jesus Christ is righteous, apart from any law law keeping, despite your daddy the devil telling you to keep saying it.

    Romans 3:21 KJV
    But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

    Law keeping is not righteousness, perverter.



    Keeping the law, to perfection, Pate, is not the righteousness of God.

    You assert that the Lord Jesus Christ became righteous, by keeping God's holy law=satanic.

    He is righteous, the righteousness of God, because He is God, not because he kept the law.

    Keeping the law does not make anyone righteous, devil child.



    We are reconciled by Hid death, justified by His resurrected life, apart from the law, pervert.



    We are righteous because we are "In Him"-He is our righteousness, but not by keeping the law, pervert.



    Ephesians says no such thing.

    1.Pate, on record, asserts that everyone is saved, because if there is no law, as he asserts, there is no law to condemn anyone, and, if there is no law, sin is not imputed, where there is no law.

    1 John 3:4 KJV Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

    Romans 5:13 KJV (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

    2. Tell us, Pate:

    Is murder, rape, theft............................................. .................................................. .......................a sin? Why? No law exists, to define what sin is, according to you....?

    Romans 3:20 KJV Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

    Romans 7 KJV
    7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

    And no law exists, according to you, to make murder, rape, theft a transgression, and no sin can be imputed, if there is no law?




    Stumped me there, with that "the doctrine of men" cliche.


    You spam the doctrines of devils, as your "vicarious law keeping" "doctrine" is from the devil, satanic, from the pits of hell.


    He kept the law for one purpose-to be qualified as "the lamb without blemish/spot"-propitiation.


    You vicarious lawkeeping assertion is from Calvinism, and the pits of hell.


    If Jesus did not fulfill the law for us and abolish it, then we are still under it and subject to it. Jesus has delivered us from the curse of the law, Galatians 3:10 by fulfilling it and abolishing it, Ephesians 2:15.

    Satan and John w. does not want you to know this. To be under the law or subject to the law is to be under condemnation.

    Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

    In the judgment all that are trying to be justified by the works of the law will perish. All that stand before God in Jesus Christ will be saved. They will be saved because Jesus met all of the demands of God's law in their name and on their behalf. Its called justification. Jesus justifies the ungodly by doing for them that which they cannot do for themselves. Which means offering to God a life of perfect obedience on our behalf.

    John W does not believe this, yet claims to be a Christian. Satan and John W. want you to do what Jesus has already done for us. Try to be holy enough to be saved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    You have missed it John w. You have missed one of the greatest truths in the New Testament. If Jesus didn't live for us and fulfill the law for us, who did he fulfill it for? If Christ is not our righteousness who is our righteousness? We don't have any righteousness because we are all sinners, Romans 3:23. Jesus justifies us before God by doing for us that which we cannot do for ourselves because we are sinners. That is what Romans 3:26 is saying.
    You teach that sinners Christ lived and died for are still lost and condemned!

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    In the judgment we will only receive from Jesus that which we believe he has accomplished for us.

    Example: If you don't believe that Jesus atoned for your sins, you will be judged in your sins and condemned. If you don't believe that Jesus fulfilled the law and then abolished it, then you will be judged by the law and condemned.

    If you believe that you have been justified, sanctified and redeemed by Jesus, then it will be according to your faith. What you believe is what you will receive.

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    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    If Jesus did not fulfill the law for us and abolish it, then we are still under it and subject to it.
    Deceiver. You argued there is no law.-gone, abolished. Thus, you assert, on record:

    -everyone is saved

    -murder, rape, .......................are OK



    That is satanic.

    Lying punk-the law still exists, but that does not necessitate that Christians are subject to it, as a "rule of life.". It was made for the lost, you moron,....

    1 Timothy 1:9 KJV Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,




    ...to show them what sin is, per Romans 3:20 KJV, Romans 7 ff,to lead them to Christ, as a schoolmaster, per Galatians 3:24 KJV. All "now" Christians were once led to Christ by the law, in that category, idiot.
    Last edited by john w; January 23rd, 2018 at 02:07 PM.
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    If Jesus did not fulfill the law for us and abolish it, then we are still under it and subject to it. Jesus has delivered us from the curse of the law, Galatians 3:10 by fulfilling it and abolishing it, Ephesians 2:15.

    Satan and John w. does not want you to know this. To be under the law or subject to the law is to be under condemnation.

    Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

    In the judgment all that are trying to be justified by the works of the law will perish. All that stand before God in Jesus Christ will be saved. They will be saved because Jesus met all of the demands of God's law in their name and on their behalf. Its called justification. Jesus justifies the ungodly by doing for them that which they cannot do for themselves. Which means offering to God a life of perfect obedience on our behalf.

    John W does not believe this, yet claims to be a Christian. Satan and John W. want you to do what Jesus has already done for us. Try to be holy enough to be saved.
    Pate says these verse are to be deleted:

    Romans 3:21 KJV But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

    Galatians 2:21 KJV I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

    Galatians 3 KJV
    21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.




    You wicked perverter.
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post

    Example: If you don't believe that Jesus atoned for your sins, you will be judged in your sins and condemned.
    How so, child of the devil? What sin? No law, according to you; so, if there is no law, there is no transgression/no sin....sin not imputed, when there is no law.



    Devious moron.
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."Romans 3:20.
    Pate quotes "for by the law is the knowledge of sin." But yet, he says there is no law-abolished.


    Thus, there is no way the lost can no what sin is.



    Idiot. Satanic.

    Go ahead, Pate, and tell all of TOL, how the lost can know what sin is, per:


    Romans 3:20 KJV Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.


    ....if the law was abolished, according to you? Go ahead.

    Romans 7 KJV
    7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

    Go ahead, Pate, and tell all of TOL, how the Paul, when he was lost, came to know what sin was, if the law was abolished, "post cross?" Go ahead.


    How could Paul say that the law showed him what sin was, if it was abolished?


    Go ahead, Pate.


    Galatians 3:24 KJV Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

    Tell all of TOL, Pate, how could Paul say that the law led him, and the Galatians, when they were lost, "post cross"(obviously), to Christ, as a schoolmaster, if the law was abolished, did not exist?



    Go ahead, Pate-unpack it for all of TOL.
    Last edited by john w; January 23rd, 2018 at 02:01 PM.
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    Pate says these verse are to be deleted:

    Romans 3:21 KJV But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

    Galatians 2:21 KJV I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

    Galatians 3 KJV
    21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.




    You wicked perverter.

    Because you don't have faith that Jesus fulfilled the law and then abolished it, you will be judged by it and condemned.

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