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Thread: The Vicarious Life and Death of Christ for the Believer

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    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You sound like those who falsely accused Jesus.
    Surprise, surprise, with that spam. Thanks for checkin' in from the army of the stupid's, Gomer.
    Saint John W

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    I am a Gospel believing Christian. There are not very many of us left on this Forum.

    To believe the Gospel one must believe that the law has been abolished for the Christian, Ephesians 2:15. If the law has not been abolished for the Christian then the Christian is under it and subject to it.

    This is why Paul said to the Galatians, "Tell me that you desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?" Galatians 4:21.

    To be under the law or subject to it is to be under a curse, Galatians 3:10.

    It appears to me that John W is under the curse. Not only John W, but also multitudes of other religious people.

    There is no condemnation for those that are "In Christ" Romans 8:1. There is no condemnation because there is no law. We have been delivered from the law.

    "For sin shall not have dominion over you: FOR YOU ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW, BUT UNDER GRACE" Romans 6:14

    The purpose of the law is to judge and condemn. It is what brings us to Christ, Galatians 3:24. But after faith is come we are no longer under the law, Galatians 3:25.

    The religious like the law because they think that they can obey it and be justified by it. Not going to happen.
    Last edited by Sherman; April 16th, 2018 at 10:57 AM. Reason: Childish remark removed.

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    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    I am a Gospel believing Christian. There are not very many of us left on this Forum.

    To believe the Gospel one must believe that the law has been abolished for the Christian, Ephesians 2:15. If the law has not been abolished for the Christian then the Christian is under it and subject to it.

    This is why Paul said to the Galatians, "Tell me that you desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?" Galatians 4:21.

    To be under the law or subject to it is to be under a curse, Galatians 3:10.

    It appears to me that John W is under the curse. Not only John W, but also multitudes of other religious people.

    There is no condemnation for those that are "In Christ" Romans 8:1. There is no condemnation because there is no law. We have been delivered from the law.

    "For sin shall not have dominion over you: FOR YOU ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW, BUT UNDER GRACE" Romans 6:14

    The purpose of the law is to judge and condemn. It is what brings us to Christ, Galatians 3:24. But after faith is come we are no longer under the law, Galatians 3:25.

    The religious like the law because they think that they can obey it and be justified by it. Not going to happen.
    You teach Salvation by works, by what the sinner does. Thats being under the curse as well. Dont you teach and believe that sinners Christ died for are still lost and condemned ?
    Last edited by Sherman; April 16th, 2018 at 10:57 AM. Reason: Childish remark removed from the quote.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
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    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post

    I am a Gospel believing Christian. There are not very many of us left on this Forum.
    Robert,

    Specifically, name a few of the "many of us on this Forum" you consider to be Gospel believing Christians.

    You spend quite a bit of time reminding us all about how wonderfully orthodox you consider yourself to be. Never have you named a single member at TOL to be someone you consider aligned with your own views. Who exactly (usernames, please) on this site do you consider a brother or sister in the faith?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    It appears that anyone that opposes John W gets banned.
    No, you get banned because of your Jew hating slurs, bible hating "posts."
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    I am a Gospel believing Christian. There are not very many of us left on this Forum.

    To believe the Gospel one must believe that the law has been abolished for the Christian, Ephesians 2:15. If the law has not been abolished for the Christian then the Christian is under it and subject to it.
    No, you are not. No scripture asserts that one must believe that the law has been abolished, vile deceiver. You deny that Christ died for our sin debt, and, instead of that being the solution to the sin debt problem, you satanically attempt to destroy the law, that defines the offense/sin, so that the Saviour need not die, demon. Ephesians 2:15 KJV, devil, child, says no such thing, despite your daddy devil speaking through you, Christ rejector.

    Pate: If the laws of foreign countries are not abolished, Americans are subject to it, to its jurisdiction, and are guilty of breaking it!!!

    This is this dementia, infested demon's convoluted, devilish "logic."


    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    To be under the law or subject to it is to be under a curse, Galatians 3:10.
    Pate: If the law exists, you are subject to it, and under a curse, as the Saviour did not die for your sins, being made a curse for us, did not take the punishment for us breaking the law, as the solution is to eliminate God's not good, not just, not holy, not spiritual law, as it is now void.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    It appears to me that John W is under the curse. Not only John W, but also multitudes of other religious people.
    It does not appear to us, that you are a devil child, wolf-you are, as your assertion is not to have the Saviour die for breaking the good, holy, just, perfect, spiritual law of God, to pay our past, and future sin debt; your "solution," from the pits of hell, is to attempt to eliminate, make void, abolish God's law, which reflects His character to the saved and lost, since you detest it, and Him, so that there is no offense/sin committed, as there is no law that defines the sin/offense/transgression. Thus, this demon makes the Saviour's death in vain, Him having died for no reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    There is no condemnation for those that are "In Christ" Romans 8:1. There is no condemnation because there is no law. We have been delivered from the law.
    There you go-on record, again. He asserts that we are not condemned because Christ died for an existing good, perfect....law of god; he asserts that we are not condemned, we are saved, because there is no law.No, you bible deleter/hater-there is no condemnation for those in Christ. You change it, make it equivalent to, "There is no condemnation for those who believe the law has been abolished."

    =satanic
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    "For sin shall not have dominion over you: FOR YOU ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW, BUT UNDER GRACE" Romans 6:14
    The purpose of the law is to judge and condemn. It is what brings us to Christ, Galatians 3:24. But after faith is come we are no longer under the law, Galatians 3:25.
    The convoluted "logic" of this poser-the law was abolished, but it still exists "to judge and condemn. It is what brings us to Christ"

    And watch the forthcoming spam that he will respond with, as he mangles/butchers, in demonic intoxication, the meaning of "abolish," and spams, "Well, the law was not abolished for the lost, just Christians."

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    to judge and condemn. It is what brings us to Christ,
    The religious like the law because they think that they can obey it and be justified by it. Not going to happen.
    False dichotomy, from satan's accuser of the brethren, as he assesses, in devilish deceit, that if one ratifies that the just, right, good, spiritual law of God, that reflects His character, to the world, still exists, and will, forever, just as the bible says, one automatically thinks that they are attempting to be justified by it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    All of that and no scripture. How can you believe anything that anyone says if they can't back up what they believe with scripture? Answer is you can't.
    No, you piece of satanic trash, you keep spamming that, you demon-that is what your daddy devil tells you to do. I've given you 4 times the amount of scriptures you give,as have others, explaining them, in context, not posting them in isolation, as you do, wolf, deleting the surrounding verses, satanically, and deleting 3/4 of the bible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    You are trying to use Old Testament scripture to make your point. There is a problem with that. The Old Testament along with the Old Covenant have been abolished.The OT is nothing but history


    This is why Pate, on record, deletes:

    Psalms 111 KJV

    7 The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure.

    8 They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness.


    Pate, on record, deletes:


    1 Peter 1:25 KJV But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.



    Pate, on record, deletes:

    Matthew 5:17 KJV Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.


    Matthew 24:35 KJV Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

    TELL ALL OF TOL WHY YOU DELETE THESE VERSES, Pope Pate-go ahead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    You are trying to use Old Testament scripture to make your point. There is a problem with that. The Old Testament along with the Old Covenant have been abolished.The OT is nothing but history
    The above will send you packing to hell demon-you delete these scriptures, that I/others quote, you wicked devil child:


    John 5:39 KJV Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

    Pate: To h with you, God-I will attempt to delete 3/4 of scriptures, to prevent this "Jesus" from being known!!I, POPE Pate, have deleted/abolished this verse.


    Romans 3:21 KJV
    21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

    Pate: To h with you, God-I will attempt to delete 3/4 of scriptures, including the law, since it testifies to the righteousness of God without the law, and I need to prevent this teaching, on orders from my daddy the devil.I, POPE Pate, have deleted/abolished this verse.



    Luke 24:44 KJV And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.


    Pate: To h with you, God-I will attempt to delete 3/4 of scriptures, to prevent this "Jesus" from being known!!I, POPE Pate, have deleted/abolished this verse.

    Psalm 40:7 KJV Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,

    Hebrews 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

    Pate: To h with you, God-I will attempt to delete 3/4 of scriptures, to prevent this "Jesus" from being known!!I, POPE Pate, have deleted/abolished these verses.


    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    You are trying to use Old Testament scripture to make your point. There is a problem with that. The Old Testament along with the Old Covenant have been abolished.



    1 Corinthians 10 KJV

    11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.




    Romans 15 KJV


    4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.



    No, no, no, Paul!!!!!!!You are trying to use Old Testament scripture to make your point. There is a problem with that. The Old Testament along with the Old Covenant have been abolished, Paul!!!!!!!!!!!!!.And no, Paul, the things that happened to others in the Old Testament for examples, for our admonition, and those things written for our learning in the Old Testament, to teach us patience, and provide us hope, do not!!!!!!!!!They no longer exists, as the Old Testament scriptures have been abolished!!!!!

    I, POPE Pate, have deleted/abolished these verses, Paul!!!!!!

    http://www.freewebs.com/thywordis/PA...20THE%20OT.htm


    You wicked bible hater/deleter.

    [QUOTE=Robert Pate;5225141]Another problem with TOL's most beloved member is that he is full of hate and bitterness. He has the Spirit of a demon. Christians don't call other Christians demons. This is why John wrote, "Try the Spirits to see if they be of God" 1 John 4:1.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    We are COMPLETE in Jesus Christ, Colossians 2:10. Sin, death, the devil, and the wretched law that condemns, has been abolished.

    Quite irrelevant spam. That's all this punk does-spams random verses, deletes surrounding verses, including the entire OT, does no expounding, and then satanically thinks he has proven that the holy, perfect, just, good law of God, no longer exists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Where there is law there is judgment and condemnation. There is no condemnation to those that are "In Christ Jesus" Romans 8:1.
    There it is-he asserts that if the law of God exists, everyone is automatically judged by it as guilty.

    Pate: If the laws of foreign countries exist, US citizens are judged and condemned by them.

    That is this satranist's demonic, intoxicated "logic."


    Again, on record, his "solution to the sin problem, is not that Christ died for our past/future sins,the sin debt, but to eliminate the law of God, SO THAT THERE IS NO DEBT TO BE PAID FOR BREAKING THE LAW, SINCE IT DOES NOT EXIST.

    Devil child Pate asserts, on record, that the Saviour did not die for our sin debt/IOU, paying our debt, in our place, as the solution, and, instead, asserts, on record, that this "Jesus" is an incompetent, impotent fool,UNABLE TO DIE FOR ALL OF OUR SINS, future sins, as is God the Father, for even sending Him to die, as devil child Pate's "solution" to the sin/sins problem, is to eliminate the law that defines the sin/transgression, thus, "presto," there is no offense/transgression/sin for which to die, instead of the Saviour dying for our future sin debt. Do you all "get that," TOL audience? That, in simple terms, is this satanist "argument," breaking it down. Again, Pate asserts that the solution to the sin/sins issue, is not that the Saviour died for our sin debt in the future, which is contrary to us, for breaking the LORD God's perfect,good, holy,just, spiritual law, and a reflection of His character to both the saved and lost, and not that we are the problem, but the problem is with the law, as it is not perfect, it is not good, it is not holy, it is not spiritual, as laws against murder, rape, lying, stealing......are all contrary to us, so, instead of the Saviour dying in our place, to satisfy the debt/IOU, abolish the law, so that there is no offense/transgression/sin for which He should die, and thus abolish the Saviour's work, as Pate asserts that the Saviour DID NOT DIE FOR OUR FUTURE SINS, SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DIE, for our future sins/sin debt. Thus, Pate asserts he died in vain, for nothing, as his "solution" is to abolish/eliminate/destroy/make void the law, so that there is no future sin/transgression/offense, and associated/corresponding wage/sin debt to be paid for.

    Again-Pate-Christ died in vain.


    Mayor STP:"It's not that complicated."


    Pate argues that the solution to the sins issue, is not Christ dying for our sins, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, to blot out/wipe out/pay for the sin debt, both past/future, "man's IOU" for breaking the good, holy, spiritual law of God, per Paul, in Romans 7, which Paul asserts is not void, as the problem is not with man, but with the God's law, as he asserts that it is not perfect, it is not good, it is not holy, it is not just, it is not spiritual, as it is the law, that is contrary/against us, according to Pate, those troublesome prohibitions against murder, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery, lying......and not the sin debt/IOU that is contrary to/against us; Again, Pate denies that the sin debt/IOU is contrary/ against us, as He asserts that God's laws against murder, lying, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery,......................................are contrary/against us, are not for our benefit, are not good, not holy, not spiritual; His "solution" is for the LORD God to destroy/abolish/make void the law, so there is no offense to break, in the future, not Christ dying for our sins, He paying the debt/IOU for us, in our place.



    Thus, Pate, on record, asserts that Christ died in vain, there was no reason to die, as He did not need to die to pay our IOU/sin debt, as all the LORD God had to do, was destroy/abolish/make void/eliminate the law, so there would not be a sin debt/IOU. Thus, he then,like the devil attempts to ...

    Delete "the handwriting of ordinances" of Colossians 2:14 KJV, replacing it with "law/ordinances," thus perverting, corrupting the scriptures, making it look like Paul says that Christ blotted out, made void, the law/ordinances, making it look like Paul is saying that the law/ordinances are contrary/against us, not for our benefit, instead of Paul saying that the sin debt/IOU was blotted out, as that is what is contrary to us, against us, as Paul asserts that the law is perfect, good, holy, just, spiritual, not void, in Romans 11, and the problem is with man, and the sin debt/IOU for breaking a good, holy, spiritual law, not the law itself.



    Pate says the opposite, asserting that the problem is with the law, as it is not prefect/good/holy/spiritual,as he asserts that it causes us to sin, as it is sin, and the problem is not with man/him, and he asserts that the solution is to assert that Christ came to destroy/abolish/blot out the law, not to die for man's breaking the good, holy, spiritual, law of God.



    The "secular" example of Pate's "reasoning::



    Pate gets a speeding ticket. He goes to court, and, in front of the judge...



    Pate:Judge, I demand that you abolish/destroy the law against speeding. It is not a good law, because I/others cannot keep it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!This law is not for my benefit, or society's-it is contrary to/against me/society!!!!!!!!!! Abolish it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!And, if you do not abolish it, it automatically condemns me, judges me, as guilty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





    The judge: No, the laws are good, and are for everyone's benefit, including yours. They are not against you, are not contrary to you, they are not against society, they are not contrary to society, -they stand. The problem is with you/others breaking these good laws, and the debt you/others must pay for these offenses(sins) you committed. That is what is contrary to/against you/others. Pay the fine. The law cannot condemn you, just because it is in place.



    Pate: No!!!!! Abolish the law!!!!!!!



    The judge: Either pay the fine, or go to jail-the law stands.



    Pate: No!!!!The laws are not good-they are the problem, not me!!!!





    Benevolent, gracious judge: Tell you what, Pate. Someone just paid your fine/debt/IOU(sin, offense, transgression) on your behalf. Justice is served. You are free to go(Christ died for our sins....paying the sin debt, IOU)



    Pate: No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That person need not have paid my fine/debt!!!!!(Christ need not die to pay the sin debt/IOU). The solution is to abolish, destroy, make void, the laws against speeding(fill in the blank), so that we will not have to "do" these laws, obey them, and the solution is not the fine being satisfied(Christ-propitiation)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



    Benevolent, gracious judge: Lock up this man for dementia, contempt of court, lunacy-put him in a straight jacket.


    And now, in wickedness, attempt to delete Genesis-John. You will lose, demon.
    Saint John W

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    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    Again, on record, Pate's "solution" to the sin problem, is not that Christ died for our past/future sins/offences,the sin debt, paying for it....
    1 Corinthians 15 KJV

    1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

    2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

    3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

    4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:



    Romans 4:25 KJV

    Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

    ...but to eliminate the law of God, SO THAT THERE IS NO DEBT TO BE PAID FOR BREAKING THE LAW, SINCE IT DOES NOT EXIST anymore.Thus, Christ did not die for our future sins also,according to Pate, since there is no law, that defines what sin/transgression was committed. No law, no transgression, and thus no need for Christ to die, to pay for our sin debt, since there is no sin debt, according to this demon Pate.,



    Devil child Pate asserts, on record, that the Saviour did not die for our sin debt/IOU, paying our debt, in our place, as the solution, and, instead, asserts, on record, that this "Jesus" is an incompetent, impotent fool,UNABLE TO DIE FOR ALL OF OUR SINS, future sins, as is God the Father, for even sending Him to die, as devil child Pate's "solution" to the sin/sins problem, is to eliminate the law that defines the sin/transgression, thus, "presto," there is no offense/transgression/sin for which to die, instead of the Saviour dying for our future sin debt. Do you all "get that," TOL audience? That, in simple terms, is this satanist "argument," breaking it down. Again, Pate asserts that the solution to the sin/sins issue, is not that the Saviour died for our sin debt in the future, which is contrary to us, for breaking the LORD God's perfect,good, holy,just, spiritual law, and a reflection of His character to both the saved and lost, and not that we are the problem, but the problem is with the law, as it is not perfect, it is not good, it is not holy, it is not spiritual, as laws against murder, rape, lying, stealing......are all contrary to us, so, instead of the Saviour dying in our place, to satisfy the debt/IOU, abolish the law, so that there is no offense/transgression/sin for which He should die, and thus abolish the Saviour's work, as Pate asserts that the Saviour DID NOT DIE FOR OUR FUTURE SINS, SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DIE, for our future sins/sin debt. Thus, Pate asserts he died in vain, for nothing, as his "solution" is to abolish/eliminate/destroy/make void the law, so that there is no future sin/transgression/offense, and associated/corresponding wage/sin debt to be paid for.

    Again-Pate-Christ died in vain.


    Mayor STP:"It's not that complicated."


    Pate argues that the solution to the sins issue, is not Christ dying for our sins, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, to blot out/wipe out/pay for the sin debt, both past/future, "man's IOU" for breaking the good, holy, spiritual law of God, per Paul, in Romans 7, which Paul asserts is not void, as the problem is not with man, but with the God's law, as he asserts that it is not perfect, it is not good, it is not holy, it is not just, it is not spiritual, as it is the law, that is contrary/against us, according to Pate, those troublesome prohibitions against murder, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery, lying......and not the sin debt/IOU that is contrary to/against us; Again, Pate denies that the sin debt/IOU is contrary/ against us, as He asserts that God's laws against murder, lying, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery,......................................are contrary/against us, are not for our benefit, are not good, not holy, not spiritual; His "solution" is for the LORD God to destroy/abolish/make void the law, so there is no offense to break, in the future, not Christ dying for our sins, He paying the debt/IOU for us, in our place.



    Thus, Pate, on record, asserts that Christ died in vain, there was no reason to die, as He did not need to die to pay our IOU/sin debt, as all the LORD God had to do, was destroy/abolish/make void/eliminate the law, so there would not be a sin debt/IOU. Thus, he then,like the devil attempts to ...

    Delete "the handwriting of ordinances" of Colossians 2:14 KJV, replacing it with "law/ordinances," thus perverting, corrupting the scriptures, making it look like Paul says that Christ blotted out, made void, the law/ordinances, making it look like Paul is saying that the law/ordinances are contrary/against us, not for our benefit, instead of Paul saying that the sin debt/IOU was blotted out, as that is what is contrary to us, against us, as Paul asserts that the law is perfect, good, holy, just, spiritual, not void, in Romans 11, and the problem is with man, and the sin debt/IOU for breaking a good, holy, spiritual law, not the law itself.
    Pate says the opposite, asserting that the problem is with the law, as it is not prefect/good/holy/spiritual,as he asserts that it causes us to sin, as it is sin, and the problem is not with man/him, and he asserts that the solution is to assert that Christ came to destroy/abolish/blot out the law, not to die for man's breaking the good, holy, spiritual, law of God.
    Saint John W

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    "Knowing this that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient" 1 Timothy 1:9.

    The righteous man does not need laws and rules to live by. He knows what is right and what is wrong and lives accordingly. The law is written on his heart by the Holy Spirit, Hebrews 8:10.

    He does not need written instructions because he is led by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is his teacher and his guide, John 16:13-15. Not the law.

    If you need written instructions like the Pharisees, then maybe you are one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    I am a Gospel believing Christian. There are not very many of us left on this Forum.

    To believe the Gospel one must believe that the law has been abolished for the Christian, Ephesians 2:15. If the law has not been abolished for the Christian then the Christian is under it and subject to it.

    This is why Paul said to the Galatians, "Tell me that you desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?" Galatians 4:21.

    To be under the law or subject to it is to be under a curse, Galatians 3:10.

    It appears to me that John W is under the curse. Not only John W, but also multitudes of other religious people.

    There is no condemnation for those that are "In Christ" Romans 8:1. There is no condemnation because there is no law. We have been delivered from the law.

    "For sin shall not have dominion over you: FOR YOU ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW, BUT UNDER GRACE" Romans 6:14

    The purpose of the law is to judge and condemn. It is what brings us to Christ, Galatians 3:24. But after faith is come we are no longer under the law, Galatians 3:25.

    The religious like the law because they think that they can obey it and be justified by it. Not going to happen.
    IF the Law was destroyed at the cross +2000 years ago...no one since has sinned

    No Law means no need of grace...faith...to be in Him...WWJD...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    "Knowing this that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient" 1 Timothy 1:9.

    The righteous man does not need laws and rules to live by. He knows what is right and what is wrong and lives accordingly. The law is written on his heart by the Holy Spirit, Hebrews 8:10.

    He does not need written instructions because he is led by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is his teacher and his guide, John 16:13-15. Not the law.

    If you need written instructions like the Pharisees, then maybe you are one.
    They are written on our hearts and minds...the same ones the Holy Spirit guides you into keeping...

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    They are written on our hearts and minds...the same ones the Holy Spirit guides you into keeping...
    I agree because that is what the Bible says, Hebrews 8:10.

    The leading of the Spirit is not the same as the leading by the written law. The Holy Spirit does not demand that we do good works like the written law. The Holy Spirit prompts or urges us to do what is right.

    The written law was abolished because it was contrary to us, no one could keep it or do it, Colossians 2:14.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    IF the Law was destroyed at the cross +2000 years ago...no one since has sinned

    No Law means no need of grace...faith...to be in Him...WWJD...
    The law is still in effect for the lost, but not for the Christian. The lost will be judged by it and condemned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    I agree
    no you dont because you say the law is abolished

    because that is what the Bible says, Hebrews 8:10.
    that is what the Bible says but not what you say...you say the law is abolished

    The leading of the Spirit is not the same as the leading by the written law.
    yes it is...the Holy Spirit guides you into keeping the Law...just like a ranger would lead you out of the woods by the path on the map...but you say the law (the map) is abolished

    The Holy Spirit does not demand that we do good works like the written law.
    the Holy Spirit is not contrary to the Father’s Will...

    The Holy Spirit prompts or urges us to do what is right.
    yup and doing what is right is in accordance by what standard? One you claim is abolished...but you are wrong...doing right is done according to what we are to do to ABIDE IN HIM...namely do His Father’s will...which is exactly keep the Law...

    The written law was abolished because it was contrary to us, no one could keep it or do it, Colossians 2:14.
    Yah does not contradict Himself...it never went from “do this and live” to “I have come to abolish the Law”

    “Think NOT” ok?...Just stop already...doing right is in accordance to what is written on our hearts and minds...HIS LAW...just like the Bible says...

    Is why the Holy Spirit had Paul write “WE ESTABLISH LAW”...except you...you establish lawlessness...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    The law is still in effect for the lost, but not for the Christian. The lost will be judged by it and condemned.
    Nope you said the cross abolished the Law as it was contrary to us...no more law...we are in the age of lawlessness...

    Can’t do anything to abide in His love...

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    Nope you said the cross abolished the Law as it was contrary to us...no more law...we are in the age of lawlessness...

    Can’t do anything to abide in His love...

    The reason that Jesus came into the world was to provide salvation for fallen man.

    The Bible plainly teaches that the law has been abolished for the Christian, Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:14, 1 Timothy 1:9, 10. Romans 4:15, Romans 6:14, Romans 7:6, Romans 5:13. plus many other scriptures.

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