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Thread: How can God resurrect us if we do not have an immortal soul?

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    According to the Bible, God can and will forget many things about us.
    Yup...but when rebuilding/reprogramming us He will be sure to leave out the icky sin caused bad parts in our new hardware/software and then toss that where He tossed our sins...

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    According to the Bible, God can and will forget many things about us.
    I think you are right. When God resurrects us, and gives us back our personality, character and memory, I think He will put us back together again without the baggage, and the downward pulls.
    Stop the culling of Cape Town's baboons!

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    Yup...but when rebuilding/reprogramming us He will be sure to leave out the icky sin caused bad parts in our new hardware/software and then toss that where He tossed our sins...
    Good one Clefty.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iouae View Post
    Good one Clefty.
    You were on to it too...

    This actually is a significant point as it is radically different than the description by John of what he saw shown playing in the heavenly IMAX...that the souls recalled their former torment and pain and demanded vengeance and justice soon...

    As a metaphor it makes a point to bring comfort that the atrocity of martyrdom will be specifically dealt with but it leaves an ache to think that souls in heaven merely cry out for vengeance...it was included as they do prove that judgement day had not yet occurred...but they were waiting “how long?” Imagine having to carry THAT around as you try to lay down with the lion or slide down a giraffe...oh nevermind...some believe we are merely spirits...

    Happily what John saw was just from a really good production company...so almost real...

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    You were on to it too...

    This actually is a significant point as it is radically different than the description by John of what he saw shown playing in the heavenly IMAX...that the souls recalled their former torment and pain and demanded vengeance and justice soon...

    As a metaphor it makes a point to bring comfort that the atrocity of martyrdom will be specifically dealt with but it leaves an ache to think that souls in heaven merely cry out for vengeance...it was included as they do prove that judgement day had not yet occurred...but they were waiting “how long?” Imagine having to carry THAT around as you try to lay down with the lion or slide down a giraffe...oh nevermind...some believe we are merely spirits...

    Happily what John saw was just from a really good production company...so almost real...
    Excellent point about the souls under the altar metaphorically crying out for justice to be done, just as Abel's blood metaphorically cried out from the ground for his blood to be avenged.

    This state of mental torment is not reflective of the Kingdom of heaven, but merely says that the kingdom cannot come till God's justice has been served. The world waits, and cries out for that day (metaphorically speaking).

    And the fact that the souls of the martyrs cry out in 90AD (when Revelation was written) when the folks who martyred them would be long dead and should have already received their comeuppance (if comeuppance comes immediately after death), proves that ALL, good and bad wait in death for judgment day.

    The symbolism of martyred souls under the altar, shows they are not forgotten, have a central place in heaven, are kept safe, while God is preparing a place in eternity for them.

    The following verse alone should prove that the dead do not immediately get their reward.
    Jhn 14:3
    And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

    It is clear that they are rewarded when "I will come again and receive you unto myself".

    They are rewarded at His coming.
    Stop the culling of Cape Town's baboons!

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    Quote Originally Posted by iouae View Post
    The immortal soul doctrine is almost universally believed in every culture - though it appears sometimes as reincarnation or some other form.

    As long as there have been humans, they have believed in life after death.

    This presupposes a spirit component in humans which supersedes death, and continues on after death. In Christian circles this is the "soul" or "spirit in man".
    Jesus taught existence of your spirit after the death of the body.

    Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
    Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
    Luk 16:24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’

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    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    Jesus taught existence of your spirit after the death of the body.

    Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
    Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
    Luk 16:24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’
    Towards the end of this video, this guy explains Luke 16 as I understand it.

    Stop the culling of Cape Town's baboons!

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    Quote Originally Posted by iouae View Post
    Excellent point about the souls under the altar metaphorically crying out for justice to be done, just as Abel's blood metaphorically cried out from the ground for his blood to be avenged.

    This state of mental torment is not reflective of the Kingdom of heaven, but merely says that the kingdom cannot come till God's justice has been served. The world waits, and cries out for that day (metaphorically speaking).

    And the fact that the souls of the martyrs cry out in 90AD (when Revelation was written) when the folks who martyred them would be long dead and should have already received their comeuppance (if comeuppance comes immediately after death), proves that ALL, good and bad wait in death for judgment day.

    The symbolism of martyred souls under the altar, shows they are not forgotten, have a central place in heaven, are kept safe, while God is preparing a place in eternity for them.

    The following verse alone should prove that the dead do not immediately get their reward.
    Jhn 14:3
    And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

    It is clear that they are rewarded when "I will come again and receive you unto myself".

    They are rewarded at His coming.
    Yup...nice.

    Good work there that is...representing that yoke you wear nicely...

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    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    Jesus taught existence of your spirit after the death of the body.

    Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
    Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
    Luk 16:24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’
    Jesus told a popular folk story popular because it had the rich in hell and the poor rewarded...of course the people liked it..

    Do you really think there are conversations to be had over a gulf seperating those who died good from those who died not good? Abraham was far off...how far to still hear the rich man ask over the roar of the fires?

    Do you really think the rich man thought a drop of water on his tongue would even LAST in this hell? Let alone cool his tongue...

    If anybody had a good afterlife account it would be real life Lazarus...4 days DEAD...but I suppose he was in heaven for four days but POOF had to come back and go back to work...or maybe he was in hell...”WHY DIDN’T HURRY TO RAISE ME?”

    So which is less disruptive to poor Lazarus’ life...?

    But from him we get NOTHING...not a peep...

    You would think the Gospel of Lazarus would be a hit...imagine the comfort and encouragement it could offer with tales from the other side...

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    Jesus told a popular folk story popular because it had the rich in hell and the poor rewarded...of course the people liked it..

    Spoiler
    Do you really think there are conversations to be had over a gulf seperating those who died good from those who died not good? Abraham was far off...how far to still hear the rich man ask over the roar of the fires?

    Do you really think the rich man thought a drop of water on his tongue would even LAST in this hell? Let alone cool his tongue...

    If anybody had a good afterlife account it would be real life Lazarus...4 days DEAD...but I suppose he was in heaven for four days but POOF had to come back and go back to work...or maybe he was in hell...”WHY DIDN’T HURRY TO RAISE ME?”

    So which is less disruptive to poor Lazarus’ life...?

    But from him we get NOTHING...not a peep...

    You would think the Gospel of Lazarus would be a hit...imagine the comfort and encouragement it could offer with tales from the other side...
    This one thinks Jesus came to entertain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    Jesus taught existence of your spirit after the death of the body.

    Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
    Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
    Luk 16:24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’
    You try and talk some sense into these idiots. They need all the help they can get.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    This one thinks Jesus came to entertain.
    This one thinks He came to LIE and DECEIVE... no no shaky head thingy...

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    Jesus told a popular folk story popular because it had the rich in hell and the poor rewarded...of course the people liked it..

    Do you really think there are conversations to be had over a gulf seperating those who died good from those who died not good? Abraham was far off...how far to still hear the rich man ask over the roar of the fires?

    Do you really think the rich man thought a drop of water on his tongue would even LAST in this hell? Let alone cool his tongue...
    Are you saying Jesus lied?

    If anybody had a good afterlife account it would be real life Lazarus...4 days DEAD...but I suppose he was in heaven for four days but POOF had to come back and go back to work...or maybe he was in hell...”WHY DIDN’T HURRY TO RAISE ME?”

    But from him we get NOTHING...not a peep...

    Joh 12:9 When the large crowd of the Jews learned that Jesus was there, they came, not only on account of him but also to see Lazarus, whom he had raised from the dead.
    Joh 12:10 So the chief priests made plans to put Lazarus to death as well,
    Joh 12:11 because on account of him many of the Jews were going away and believing in Jesus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    Are you saying Jesus lied?
    no you are...teaching an afterlife not found in the OT is destroying the law...THINK NOT ok?




    Joh 12:9 When the large crowd of the Jews learned that Jesus was there, they came, not only on account of him but also to see Lazarus, whom he had raised from the dead.
    Joh 12:10 So the chief priests made plans to put Lazarus to death as well,
    Joh 12:11 because on account of him many of the Jews were going away and believing in Jesus.
    To SEE Lazarus nothing about hearing his stories of floating around heaven with harp and halo...certainly not walking on streets of gold with a glorified body given to him at the resurrection...

    Nothing of his four days DEAD...asleep...He called it...

    Could have told the disciples “Oh Lazarus is on the bosom of Abraham”...the irony too perfect...but He DID NOT

    He said “he sleeps”...and then went to wake Him up...and Lazarus just stumble out and said “whaaa..?” “Let’s eat!” or something...

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    no you are...teaching an afterlife not found in the OT is destroying the law...THINK NOT ok?
    Jesus taught existence of the spirit after death

    Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
    Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
    Luk 16:24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’


    To SEE Lazarus nothing about hearing his stories of floating around heaven with harp and halo...certainly not walking on streets of gold with a glorified body given to him at the resurrection...

    Nothing of his four days DEAD...asleep...He called it...

    Could have told the disciples “Oh Lazarus is on the bosom of Abraham”...the irony too perfect...but He DID NOT

    He said “he sleeps”...and then went to wake Him up...and Lazarus just stumble out and said “whaaa..?” “Let’s eat!” or something...
    whatever Lazarus said , he earned death threats.

    Joh 12:10 So the chief priests made plans to put Lazarus to death as well,
    Joh 12:11 because on account of him many of the Jews were going away and believing in Jesus.

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