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Thread: How can God resurrect us if we do not have an immortal soul?

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    Over 2500 post club iouae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    Give us eternal life and ONLY through another material medium...fruit from the tree of life.

    Man was not created immortal...never was...dust + His spirit = a living soul...in a material container...

    The fact that we are alive even now in the material world and but for a little while is a spiritual miracle...is a continuing gift of grace...sign of mercy

    Being born into the material world now is to have been saved from annihilation by His grace and His spirit (life force) given to Eve to have children...for that gift we are here although but for a little while...as we are denied access to the tree of life to “put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”

    We are then born saved as adam was and in need only to accept it (faith) and obey “to do this and live”

    We will be restored access to the tree of life when we are restored...and then live forever...

    All else will return to its annihilation denied access to it...and be as if never born never material...only Yah is immortal we need Him...His tree of life...
    Clefty Its a blessing to me that we believe the same thing in this regard.

    I too believe that it is only by eating of the Tree of Life, (the angels seem to eat manna) that my future immortality will be sustained. We, like the angels have to stay connected to the vine, eat the bread and drink the wine of communion forever, or eat of the Tree of Life in order to have eternal life.

    There is never a stage in the future when I could say that I don't need God's sustenance.
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    Over 2500 post club iouae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by popsthebuilder View Post
    But those two ideals seem in contrast to one another.



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    I don't see why. You would have to explain where the contrast lies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by popsthebuilder View Post
    Oh....to me they seem to have multiple points; like double or triple entendres.

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    Give me a for instance please.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iouae View Post
    I don't see why. You would have to explain where the contrast lies.
    The Spirit of life nor life is strictly the sum of it's material parts.



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    Quote Originally Posted by iouae View Post
    Give me a for instance please.
    Any instance of His actual words generally suffices.

    Matthew 13: 8. But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.

    (Shows that the levels of the gifts of GOD are varied and too that good ground for the planting of the seed of faith in Christ is the whole world; as of course; the whole world is the Lord's; as is all existence; not just what is readily percievable.)

    Hope that helps;.

    peace



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    Quote Originally Posted by popsthebuilder View Post
    Any instance of His actual words generally suffices.

    Matthew 13: 8. But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.

    (Shows that the levels of the gifts of GOD are varied and too that good ground for the planting of the seed of faith in Christ is the whole world; as of course; the whole world is the Lord's; as is all existence; not just what is readily percievable.)

    Hope that helps;.

    peace



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    The parable of the sower is that a Christian has to sprout and grow to the point of being productive.

    To me that's one point, to you it may be multiple.

    Obviously the more productive a Christian is the better.

    But vegetative growth is not enough. A good looking Christian is not enough. Its all in my one point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by popsthebuilder View Post
    The Spirit of life nor life is strictly the sum of it's material parts.
    I am not sure how Gen 1:2 advances your argument.

    God's Spirit surveyed an earth that was in ruin and in 6 days renewed it.

    Nothing spirit was created in those 6 days. All just a material creation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iouae View Post
    The parable of the sower is that a Christian has to sprout and grow to the point of being productive.

    To me that's one point, to you it may be multiple.

    Obviously the more productive a Christian is the better.

    But vegetative growth is not enough. A good looking Christian is not enough. Its all in my one point.
    If you are saying all parables reiterate the same point ultimately, then we agree.

    What I am trying to say is that to me, each parable does this in a multitude of ways; that indeed do reiterate the same singular Point, ultimately.

    peace

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    Quote Originally Posted by popsthebuilder View Post
    If you are saying all parables reiterate the same point ultimately, then we agree.

    What I am trying to say is that to me, each parable does this in a multitude of ways; that indeed do reiterate the same singular Point, ultimately.

    peace

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    I believe each parable makes one point (in general - there may be odd exceptions.

    Here are some parables and I give the one point.

    1. Lamp Under a Basket - God made us lights - so shine

    2. Unshrunken Cloth on Old Cloak - NT believers need a new paradigm, not a patch on OT

    3. New Wine in Old Wineskins - same

    4. Sower and the Four Soils - God requires us to grow spiritually till we are productive

    5. Mustard Seed - Kingdom started 2000 years ago with Jesus and has spread to fill earth.

    6. The Wicked Tenants - If you don't want the kingdom, someone else will.

    7. Fig Tree (See also "28. Barren Fig Tree" below) - Christ cursing fig tree represented Christ cursing Israel till He returns

    8. Wise and Foolish Builders (Two Builders) - If not Christ centred as a Christian, you will not be solid.

    9. The Leaven (Yeast) - Kingdom grew from Christ 2000 years ago to fill the world/dough

    10. Lost Sheep - God values and rejoices over the lost who are found

    11. The Faithful and Wise Servant - Be about the Master's business when He returns

    12. The Talents & Pounds - Be profitable, and having a good attitude towards the Master will help you be profitable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iouae View Post
    I believe each parable makes one point (in general - there may be odd exceptions.

    Here are some parables and I give the one point.

    1. Lamp Under a Basket - God made us lights - so shine

    2. Unshrunken Cloth on Old Cloak - NT believers need a new paradigm, not a patch on OT

    3. New Wine in Old Wineskins - same

    4. Sower and the Four Soils - God requires us to grow spiritually till we are productive

    5. Mustard Seed - Kingdom started 2000 years ago with Jesus and has spread to fill earth.

    6. The Wicked Tenants - If you don't want the kingdom, someone else will.

    7. Fig Tree (See also "28. Barren Fig Tree" below) - Christ cursing fig tree represented Christ cursing Israel till He returns

    8. Wise and Foolish Builders (Two Builders) - If not Christ centred as a Christian, you will not be solid.

    9. The Leaven (Yeast) - Kingdom grew from Christ 2000 years ago to fill the world/dough

    10. Lost Sheep - God values and rejoices over the lost who are found

    11. The Faithful and Wise Servant - Be about the Master's business when He returns

    12. The Talents & Pounds - Be profitable, and having a good attitude towards the Master will help you be profitable.
    Do you limit perception to the extent of your perception? Or the Word of GOD to such?

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    Quote Originally Posted by popsthebuilder View Post
    Do you limit perception to the extent of your perception? Or the Word of GOD to such?

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
    Everything we do is seen through our perception or eyes. So that is a limit.

    But sometimes when we get quiet and pray about something, the answer comes from a supernatural source and one knows it is so. Praying should be as much about listening as speaking.

    That said, I am fairly happy with my perception of the Word, as opposed to anyone else's.
    If that were not so, I would not feel the confidence to resolve doctrine in my own mind, but would be constantly wanting to know what the church teaches. I feel sorry for folks like that. I also know how to operate Strongs, and that goes a long way to settling many issues.

    On parables, I have seen folks go horribly wrong when they start trying to get multiple points from a parable.

    Are you the type of believer who believes he can come to a definitive opinion on a particular thread, and feel pretty confident that you are right?
    Stop the culling of Cape Town's baboons!

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    Quote Originally Posted by iouae View Post
    Clefty Its a blessing to me that we believe the same thing in this regard.

    I too believe that it is only by eating of the Tree of Life, (the angels seem to eat manna) that my future immortality will be sustained. We, like the angels have to stay connected to the vine, eat the bread and drink the wine of communion forever, or eat of the Tree of Life in order to have eternal life.

    There is never a stage in the future when I could say that I don't need God's sustenance.
    Now more than ever it makes sense that where He is there is nothing of what is prohibited here...no killing no stealing no adultery no coveting etc...so ”we do this and live” here and in the the restored life...and when we come back to the new world His kingdom...the tree is there to provide everlasting life to our still mortal lives...

    Where He is...is what we practice for here...to abide in His love...forever

    In the concept of hell what sustains the souls or spirits or actual bodies?

    He ABHORS sin HAAAATES evil considers it an abomination...is why He withdraws His Spirit from anything with sin

    and all with it is annihilated...

    I got the guys at work here mocking me “don’t go to hell you will starve!”...LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by iouae View Post
    Everything we do is seen through our perception or eyes. So that is a limit.

    But sometimes when we get quiet and pray about something, the answer comes from a supernatural source and one knows it is so. Praying should be as much about listening as speaking.

    That said, I am fairly happy with my perception of the Word, as opposed to anyone else's.
    If that were not so, I would not feel the confidence to resolve doctrine in my own mind, but would be constantly wanting to know what the church teaches. I feel sorry for folks like that. I also know how to operate Strongs, and that goes a long way to settling many issues.

    On parables, I have seen folks go horribly wrong when they start trying to get multiple points from a parable.

    Are you the type of believer who believes he can come to a definitive opinion on a particular thread, and feel pretty confident that you are right?
    Yes

    Unless shown to be wrong, generally with in context scripture. But I am here to learn too; as I think we all are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by popsthebuilder View Post
    Yes

    Unless shown to be wrong, generally with in context scripture. But I am here to learn too; as I think we all are.

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    There is nothing I like more than being proven wrong, so that I learn something new.

    Doctrinal error is like a mental roadblock. When it is removed it allows one to explore places one could never go before. So opening one's eyes to one misunderstanding clears the way to clearing up other Biblical questions. I am sure we all have these nagging questions which are filed away under "For later resolution" which we cannot make sense of now.

    Being on a forum like this where on's beliefs are probed so hard is a blessing. Many preachers probably would hate to have their ideas examined like we do here, because their beliefs would not stand up to the probing questions. I am happy to give up any and all pet doctrines if you or others can prove them wrong.

    Take for instance the number of times I have heard preachers speak of the spirit, soul, body, mind of a human, as if these are different components. They quite casually believe spirit and soul are immortal, sort of trapped inside our body for now. And that this spirit or soul leaves the body to be stored somewhere after death, or wanders around not finding rest or whatever. When in fact, there is no scriptural evidence for this.

    What there IS scriptural evidence for, is that some folks are demon oppressed, and that demon can drive them to suicide. So when the person dies, the demon may have lost it's human habitation, and may now be attached to where the deceased died. That is, to me, a far better explanation of why some houses are haunted etc. Especially if there has been a tragedy in the home. This phenomenon is mistakenly seen as the soul of the dead person coming back to haunt a place.
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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    I got the guys at work here mocking me “don’t go to hell you will starve!”...LOL
    Well, at least you have got them talking about hell.

    My city Cape Town, a city of 4 million people, is about to be the first major city to run out of water in two months time. I was telling them at work today, the only solution is we need to pray for rain. They actually agreed with me. Some of my friends are going mad installing bore-holes, buying bottled water by the crate etc. My plan is to fill the bath at the end of March, before they cut off the water supply on 12 April.
    Stop the culling of Cape Town's baboons!

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