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Thread: How can God resurrect us if we do not have an immortal soul?

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    Over 2500 post club iouae's Avatar
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    How can God resurrect us if we do not have an immortal soul?

    What is a human comprised of?

    Gen 2:7
    And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

    Thus ground + breath of life (O2) = soul.

    Thus the soul comprises nothing immortal, only matter and oxygen.

    The question therefore arises, if we die, and we just are opposed of matter, how could God resurrect us when we die?

    God knows how many hairs we have, and knows our thoughts i.e. everything about us.
    He knows our DNA too, so He could put us back together as we looked before just from our genes.

    Our body and our life's experience is just data. And if God has a perfect memory, then He knows every bit of data about us, and could resurrect us in whatever sort of body He wanted, and with all our past memories, character traits and individual personality.

    Thus, God does not need us to have a spiritual component in order for Him to resurrect us at the last trump, even though our mortal bodies may have decayed.

    If I had a dollar for every time I have heard a preacher tell us that we are a soul, in a body, with a spirit or some other such nonsense. I probably got this last sentence wrong since I tune out knowing they are horribly mistaken.

    Mankind comprises nothing more than ground and breath. All our thoughts are stored in God's memory for Him to resurrect us at the appropriate time.
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    The immortal soul doctrine is almost universally believed in every culture - though it appears sometimes as reincarnation or some other form.

    As long as there have been humans, they have believed in life after death.

    This presupposes a spirit component in humans which supersedes death, and continues on after death. In Christian circles this is the "soul" or "spirit in man".

    Yet the soul is just man-atoms + O2 = soul (nephesh).

    There is nothing immortal here.

    Likewise the "spirit" is simply the "breath" or "O2" in man, which gives material life.

    The reason we all believe in a spirit component comes from mankind believing Satan's lie "Thou shalt not surely die".

    I am sure that most folks consider it ridiculous and a waste of time to even consider that man does not have an immortal component or soul. Maybe they should start a Bible study to see what underpins their confidence in an immortal component. I have looked at this extensively and concluded that the soul is not immortal, but simply the physical man, and man's spirit is just his breath, again nothing immortal, just oxygen keeping the soul going.
    Stop the culling of Cape Town's baboons!

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    Quote Originally Posted by iouae View Post
    The immortal soul doctrine is almost universally believed in every culture - though it appears sometimes as reincarnation or some other form.

    As long as there have been humans, they have believed in life after death.

    This presupposes a spirit component in humans which supersedes death, and continues on after death. In Christian circles this is the "soul" or "spirit in man".

    Yet the soul is just man-atoms + O2 = soul (nephesh).

    There is nothing immortal here.

    Likewise the "spirit" is simply the "breath" or "O2" in man, which gives material life.

    The reason we all believe in a spirit component comes from mankind believing Satan's lie "Thou shalt not surely die".

    I am sure that most folks consider it ridiculous and a waste of time to even consider that man does not have an immortal component or soul. Maybe they should start a Bible study to see what underpins their confidence in an immortal component. I have looked at this extensively and concluded that the soul is not immortal, but simply the physical man, and man's spirit is just his breath, again nothing immortal, just oxygen keeping the soul going.

    The whole man goes into the ground and the whole man comes out of the ground. At the last trump some will be raised incorruptible, 1 Corinthians 15:52.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    The whole man goes into the ground and the whole man comes out of the ground. At the last trump some will be raised incorruptible, 1 Corinthians 15:52.
    Robert, it sounds like you believe in "soul sleep".

    I wonder how many others believe we have to wait for the last trump to be resurrected?
    Stop the culling of Cape Town's baboons!

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    Philippians 3:20-21 KJV - For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

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    Resurrection, "to stand up," pertains to the body.

    Adam/Eve-no blood, "pre-fall"-flesh and bone-not "flesh and blood:"

    Genesis 2:23 KJV And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.


    Notice-No blood can enter "the third heaven," the kingdom of God upon the earth.......

    1 Corinthians 15:50 KJV Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.


    And thus...Notice-No blood...The Lord Jesus Christ's glorified, resurrected body:


    Luke 24:39 KJV Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.



    Connect the dots...
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by iouae View Post
    The immortal soul doctrine is almost universally believed in every culture - though it appears sometimes as reincarnation or some other form.

    As long as there have been humans, they have believed in life after death.

    This presupposes a spirit component in humans which supersedes death, and continues on after death. In Christian circles this is the "soul" or "spirit in man".

    Yet the soul is just man-atoms + O2 = soul (nephesh).

    There is nothing immortal here.

    Likewise the "spirit" is simply the "breath" or "O2" in man, which gives material life.

    The reason we all believe in a spirit component comes from mankind believing Satan's lie "Thou shalt not surely die".

    I am sure that most folks consider it ridiculous and a waste of time to even consider that man does not have an immortal component or soul. Maybe they should start a Bible study to see what underpins their confidence in an immortal component. I have looked at this extensively and concluded that the soul is not immortal, but simply the physical man, and man's spirit is just his breath, again nothing immortal, just oxygen keeping the soul going.
    Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

    Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    Resurrection, "to stand up," pertains to the body.

    Adam/Eve-no blood, "pre-fall"-flesh and bone-not "flesh and blood:"

    Genesis 2:23 KJV And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.


    Notice-No blood can enter "the third heaven," the kingdom of God upon the earth.......

    1 Corinthians 15:50 KJV Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.


    And thus...Notice-No blood...The Lord Jesus Christ's glorified, resurrected body:


    Luke 24:39 KJV Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.



    Connect the dots...
    Dang . . . holding to the scripture again, nice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

    Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
    The only sign Jesus would give is the following...
    Mat 12:38
    Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
    Mat 12:39
    But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
    Mat 12:40
    For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

    If we don't believe that Jesus WAS three days and nights in the grave as Jonah was three days in the fish's belly - then we don't believe the main sign Jesus gave.

    So Jesus was stone dead and unconscious for 3 days and nights - and while He was, the Father did not allow Jesus body to see corruption. David in the Psalms prophesied the same.

    Psa 16:10
    For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One [JESUS] to see corruption.

    Jesus did not go to the spirits during those 3 days. He was dead- the absence of life and consciousness.
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    [Jhn 5:29
    29 "and come forth--those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iouae View Post
    The only sign Jesus would give is the following...
    Mat 12:38
    Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
    Mat 12:39
    But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
    Mat 12:40
    For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

    If we don't believe that Jesus WAS three days and nights in the grave as Jonah was three days in the fish's belly - then we don't believe the main sign Jesus gave.
    Ah, yes....the sign....

    So Jesus was stone dead and unconscious for 3 days and nights -


    Jesus did not go to the spirits during those 3 days. He was dead- the absence of life and consciousness.
    Jonah 1:17 Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

    As "stone dead" and absent of "consciousness" as Jonah, you say?

    Jonah 2:1-7 Then Jonah prayed unto the Lord his God out of the fish's belly, And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice. For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me. Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; yet I will look again toward thy holy temple. The waters compassed me about, even to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head. I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O Lord my God.



    Jonah 2:10 And the Lord spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Ah, yes....the sign....



    Jonah 1:17 Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

    As "stone dead" and absent of "consciousness" as Jonah, you say?

    Jonah 2:1-7 Then Jonah prayed unto the Lord his God out of the fish's belly, And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice. For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me. Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; yet I will look again toward thy holy temple. The waters compassed me about, even to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head. I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O Lord my God.



    Jonah 2:10 And the Lord spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land.
    Wow Glorydaz

    Nice counterstrike.

    But like I say, parables always have only one point, and the point of the parable of Christ=Jonah is that both are in a place for 3 days.

    You have ADDED the point that both are ALIVE in a place for 3 days.

    And that is where your interpretation of the parable fails.

    But still, well played
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    Quote Originally Posted by iouae View Post
    Wow Glorydaz

    Nice counterstrike.

    But like I say, parables always have only one point, and the point of the parable of Christ=Jonah is that both are in a place for 3 days.

    You have ADDED the point that both are ALIVE in a place for 3 days.

    And that is where your interpretation of the parable fails.

    But still, well played
    Ah, first you use Jonah, and then you call it a parable.


    The scripture is very specific....AS JONAS WAS......SO SHALL THE SON OF MAN BE.

    I've added nothing. I believe what is clearly written. This is not a parable, as you claim, it's a sign of the PROPHET JONAS.
    As means in exactly the same way.


    Matthew 12:39-40
    39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
    40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Ah, first you use Jonah, and then you call it a parable.


    The scripture is very specific....AS JONAS WAS......SO SHALL THE SON OF MAN BE.

    I've added nothing. I believe what is clearly written. This is not a parable, as you claim, it's a sign of the PROPHET JONAS.
    As means in exactly the same way.


    Matthew 12:39-40
    39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
    40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

    ...as Jonah was wrapped in seaweed, so the Son was wrapped in burial cloths....

    ...as Jonah preached for 40 days, so the Son preached after his resurrection for 40 days...

    ...as the gentiles repented at the preaching of Jonah, so the gentiles repented at the preaching of the Son after His resurrection.

    See, I can play your game too
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    Quote Originally Posted by iouae View Post
    ...as Jonah was wrapped in seaweed, so the Son was wrapped in burial cloths....
    Indeed, and this was the sign, wasn't it?

    Jonah was clearly aware, but you claim Jesus was stone dead.

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