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Thread: What is the appropriate level of giving for retired people?

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    Body part Right Divider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    I think Galatians 3 indicates it can have some value as historical information, as long as we recognize we are not under the law.

    Is the law then opposed to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could make alive, then righteousness would indeed come through the law. 22 But the scripture has imprisoned all things under the power of sin, so that what was promised through faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 Now before faith came, we were imprisoned and guarded under the law until faith would be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our disciplinarian until Christ came, so that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer subject to a disciplinarian, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith.
    When were you under the law?

    P.S. What strange "translation" is that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    When were you under the law?

    P.S. What strange "translation" is that?
    I have already said believers of Gentile origin are not under the law. Why do you keep ignoring my clear statements?

    That is a strange translation. It is the New Revised Standard Version, my favorite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    I have already said believers of Gentile origin are not under the law. Why do you keep ignoring my clear statements?
    Gentiles that joined with Israel were required to keep the law.

    Exod 12:48-49 (AKJV/PCE)
    (12:48) And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. (12:49) One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

    This was pronounced the day that they left Egypt.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    LIFETIME MEMBER jamie's Avatar
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    Jesus didn't tithe.

    Paul didn't tithe.

    The Twelve didn't tithe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Gentiles that joined with Israel were required to keep the law.

    Exod 12:48-49 (AKJV/PCE)
    (12:48) And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. (12:49) One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

    This was pronounced the day that they left Egypt.

    Yes, Gentiles who moved to Israel and lived among the Israelites were expected to follow the Law of Moses.

    By the way, the passage you quoted is only about those eating the Passover, so it doesn’t really support your statement.

    This is off the topic that we are discussing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    Jesus didn't tithe.

    Paul didn't tithe.

    The Twelve didn't tithe.
    Well, I don’t know if that is true or not. I recall Paul writing that he was blameless in matters of the law.

    What is your opinion on proper giving for the couple in post 3?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    Yes, Gentiles who moved to Israel and lived among the Israelites were expected to follow the Law of Moses.
    This command was issued well before they got to the land of Israel.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    By the way, the passage you quoted is only about those eating the Passover, so it doesnít really support your statement.
    No, the passage that I quoted also included circumcision and "one law".

    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    This is off the topic that we are discussing.
    Indeed, it is. Over and out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    This command was issued well before they got to the land of Israel.
    No, the passage that I quoted also included circumcision and "one law".
    Yes, it says those eating the Passover must be circumcised. Go back a few verses and you will see a more complete picture:
    The LORD said to Moses and Aaron, “These are the regulations for the Passover meal: “No foreigner may eat it. 44 Any slave you have bought may eat it after you have circumcised him, 45 but a temporary resident or a hired worker may not eat it. 46 “It must be eaten inside the house; take none of the meat outside the house. Do not break any of the bones. 47 The whole community of Israel must celebrate it. 48 “A foreigner residing among you who wants to celebrate the LORD’s Passover must have all the males in his household circumcised; then he may take part like one born in the land. No uncircumcised male may eat it. 49 The same law applies both to the native-born and to the foreigner residing among you.”


    Indeed, it is. Over and out.
    So what about the couple in post 3. What are the relevant factors and considerations?

    Do you think just his income is relevant, or is the growth in net worth an important consideration?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    So what about the couple in post 3. What are the relevant factors and considerations?

    Do you think just his income is relevant, or is the growth in net worth an important consideration?
    Neither of those has any bearing on free will giving as they purpose in their hearts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to Right Divider For Your Post:

    Tambora (January 11th, 2018)

  14. #25
    Over 4000 post club oatmeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    You guys remain under the curse of the law if you tithe.

    This is the appropriate amount:

    2Cor 9:7 (AKJV/PCE)
    (9:7) Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, [so let him give]; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
    Abraham tithed but he was not under the law.

    Where did he learn to tithe?

    The truth about tithing came before the law.

    Abraham was a Gentile, not an Israelite

    Tithing is what believers do, they believe as the father of all them that believe, they do the tithe.

    Believers purpose in their heart to tithe, for Abraham the father of all those who believe tithed.

    That is not the law of Moses, it is a righteous act of believing
    "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

    "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

    Pro scripture = Protestant

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    That would imply that the growth in the stock accounts should be considered in the level of giving.
    Yes, that is how it would make sense

    Especially so, if your income before you decided to put some away for a retirement fund had already been tithed from.

    There is no need to tithe from money you have already tithed from, however, any increase from that fund could be tithed from
    "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

    "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

    Pro scripture = Protestant

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    I would also put you under the law, which is a curse. If you are going to tithe, you'd better keep all of the law.
    You, Right Divider, fail to rightly divide the word of truth, for Abraham tithed previous to the giving of the law of Moses.

    For that matter, (even though the percentage is not stated) Cain and Abel gave, but Cain's heart was wrong, Abel's was not.

    Are you suggesting that because the law says to not commit adultery, and we are no longer under the law that it is now fine with God to now commit adultery?

    How serving idols? Is it now ok to serve false gods because we are now not under the law?

    what you need to do is read the context of the phrase "no longer under the law" or such similar phrases.

    For instance,

    Galatians 2:21
    I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

    Galatians 3:6
    Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

    Galatians 3:21
    Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

    Romans 3:28
    Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

    Romans 3:31
    Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

    Romans 4:13
    For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

    Romans 4:14
    For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

    Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

    Romans 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

    Romans 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

    Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

    Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

    Does sin still exist?

    Is it still possible to be tempted to sin?

    How do we know what is right and what is wrong?

    Our righteousness no longer comes from doing the law, actually it is not available that righteousness come by the law.

    We are righteous because of what God did in Christ, then we received that, when we did Romans 10:9-10

    We are not righteous by our own works, but by the works of Jesus Christ
    "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

    "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

    Pro scripture = Protestant

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    1 Cor. 16:2 applies here.

    Give liberally (Matthew 10:8), cheerfully (2 Cor. 9:7), privately (Matthew 6:3-4), and regularly (1 Cor. 16:2).

    The question is not "How much should I give?", but rather, "What can I give?"

    God shares in His abundance with us...so should we all.

    AMR
    Yes, that is right.

    The tithe of our increase is available to give

    That of course, does not have to be money, it could be time, talent, energy, service to others, if that is what we have been increased with.
    "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

    "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

    Pro scripture = Protestant

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Neither of those has any bearing on free will giving as they purpose in their hearts.
    The amount we have and the amount by which God has prospered us has no bearing?

    I am reminded of this:
    1 Corinthians 16:1-3New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

    The Collection for the Saints
    16 Now concerning the collection for the saints: you should follow the directions I gave to the churches of Galatia. 2 On the first day of every week, each of you is to put aside and save whatever extra you earn, so that collections need not be taken when I come. 3 And when I arrive, I will send any whom you approve with letters to take your gift to Jerusalem.

    In the KJV:
    1 Corinthians 16:1-3King James Version (KJV)

    16 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.

    2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

    3 And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem.

    So if God has prospered the couple with a growth of $200,000 in their stock accounts, giving them extra, is the amount of the prospering relevant?

    I am also reminded of the obligation not to give everything away but to plan for the needs of family:

    1 Timothy 5:7-9New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

    7 Give these commands as well, so that they may be above reproach. 8 And whoever does not provide for relatives, and especially for family members, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oatmeal View Post
    Abraham tithed but he was not under the law.

    Where did he learn to tithe?

    The truth about tithing came before the law.

    Abraham was a Gentile, not an Israelite

    Tithing is what believers do, they believe as the father of all them that believe, they do the tithe.

    Believers purpose in their heart to tithe, for Abraham the father of all those who believe tithed.

    That is not the law of Moses, it is a righteous act of believing
    I agree with much of what you wrote, but I do ask a question about the specifics.

    If I remember the story correctly, Abraham did not tithe of his goods. Didn’t he tithe of the spoils captured in the rescue of Lot, mostly stolen goods, before returning the rest to their rightful owners?

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