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Thread: Establishing their own righteousness, Rom 9; historian Foerster on Pharisaism

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    Establishing their own righteousness, Rom 9; historian Foerster on Pharisaism

    "What was new about Jesus' preaching was the fact that this divine rule would not be brought about by repentance but that the summons to repentance flowed from the immanence of the divine rule. It was exactly the reverse of what the Jews thought right up to the great War and after."
    --W. Foerster, FROM THE EXILE TO CHRIST, Fortress, 1964, p110.

    Like its doctrine about the race, Judaism had replaced the correct theology of the grace of the Gospel with a performance that was awarded by God. The zealots were simply the most extreme and politically active way of expressing this. That's why Paul refers in the bridge of chs 9-10 to 'zeal without knowledge'--he is describing the historical situation in front of him.

    NT preaching, including Christ, said the reign of God was here, therefore repent and follow. Judaism, both generations, tried to see it happen as reward for their purity, and they meant a state government out of Jerusalem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    "What was new about Jesus' preaching was the fact that this divine rule would not be brought about by repentance but that the summons to repentance flowed from the immanence of the divine rule. It was exactly the reverse of what the Jews thought right up to the great War and after."
    --W. Foerster, FROM THE EXILE TO CHRIST, Fortress, 1964, p110.

    Like its doctrine about the race, Judaism had replaced the correct theology of the grace of the Gospel with a performance that was awarded by God. The zealots were simply the most extreme and politically active way of expressing this. That's why Paul refers in the bridge of chs 9-10 to 'zeal without knowledge'--he is describing the historical situation in front of him.

    NT preaching, including Christ, said the reign of God was here, therefore repent and follow. Judaism, both generations, tried to see it happen as reward for their purity, and they meant a state government out of Jerusalem.
    More of your books based parroting.

    Exactly why you every now and then insist one put a thing in one's own words, in contrast to the practice depicted in Scripture itself - quoting the Scripture.

    IP, you are attempting to reach the wrong people on here.

    What you need to do is find a forum where the books based parroting of men (which for far too many, often goes for knowing the Scripture itself) is welcomed with a hearty amen.

    I move you vote yourself off the island.

    Nevertheless, Rom. 5: 6-8 towards ya.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    NT preaching, including Christ, said the reign of God was here,
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaulToPaul View Post




    That was critical to their preaching. It was here and the person listening was to obey. In Judaism, the person listening to the Law was to obey, SO THAT the kingdom would come as a response from God. The cause/effect is exactly as positioned by the NT.

    On the presence of the kingdom, Mt 4:17 (totally apart from whether anyone responds).
    10:7
    11:11 how can this be said if it is not a present reality?
    11:12
    12:28 " " " "

    You don't know the Bible and sound like you are in charge of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    That was critical to their preaching. It was here and the person listening was to obey. In Judaism, the person listening to the Law was to obey, SO THAT the kingdom would come as a response from God. The cause/effect is exactly as positioned by the NT.

    On the presence of the kingdom, Mt 4:17 (totally apart from whether anyone responds).
    10:7
    11:11 how can this be said if it is not a present reality?
    11:12
    12:28 " " " "

    You don't know the Bible and sound like you are in charge of it.
    You do not know anyone who follows Matthew 5-7.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaulToPaul View Post
    You do not know anyone who follows Matthew 5-7.




    Sound bytes in, sound bytes out.
    "The New Covenant precedes the Old" means it is the Eternal Covenant. Eternal precedes Old. Heb 13.
    You never connect the dots. No one under Mt 5-7. ??? So what? I don't know anyone under Pharisaism (of that time) now, either.
    I have no idea what you mean.

    Sentences are to paragraphs what words are to sentences. But you only give me one sentence at a time! It's like post after post after post is:

    blue!

    trouble!

    excitement?
    All Lives Matter --Marcus Sanford, youtube.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    Sound bytes in, sound bytes out.
    "The New Covenant precedes the Old" means it is the Eternal Covenant. Eternal precedes Old. Heb 13.
    You never connect the dots. No one under Mt 5-7. ??? So what? I don't know anyone under Pharisaism (of that time) now, either.
    I have no idea what you mean.

    Sentences are to paragraphs what words are to sentences. But you only give me one sentence at a time! It's like post after post after post is:

    blue!

    trouble!

    excitement?
    Heb 8:8-12 (AKJV/PCE)
    (8:8) For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: (8:9) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. (8:10) For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: (8:11) And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. (8:12) For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

    Still not going away...
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Heb 8:8-12 (AKJV/PCE)
    (8:8) For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: (8:9) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. (8:10) For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: (8:11) And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. (8:12) For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

    Still not going away...





    It's eternal, because God planned before time that they would do the new one, the Gospel. That's another reason it has nothing to do with territory. It is what Christ accomplished in the Gospel as He said and 2 Cor 5 said.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    It's eternal, because God planned before time that they would do the new one, the Gospel. That's another reason it has nothing to do with territory. It is what Christ accomplished in the Gospel as He said and 2 Cor 5 said.
    You are just so completely oblivious to truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    You are just so completely oblivious to truth.



    But you are oblivious to what the NT says was actually true about the OT. How exactly do you 'lay' a "Stone" which is a person in Zion, when Zion is above, is unshakeable, is where 'saints who have died' have already gone to (Mt 27), etc, etc, etc. The Child Is 11 was excited about is the Gospel because Gen 3 was finally happening, going to happen on the heels of the totally mistaken direction Israel had taken up to that point. It was Judaism that voided the promise and replaced a covenant that preceded it by 430 years, Gal 3:17. The "multitude" is not the remnant, and never has been.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    But you are oblivious to what the NT says was actually true about the OT.
    I am oblivious to your fairy tale version, you fiction writer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    How exactly do you 'lay' a "Stone" which is a person in Zion, when Zion is above, is unshakeable, is where 'saints who have died' have already gone to (Mt 27), etc, etc, etc. The Child Is 11 was excited about is the Gospel because Gen 3 was finally happening, going to happen on the heels of the totally mistaken direction Israel had taken up to that point. It was Judaism that voided the promise and replaced a covenant that preceded it by 430 years, Gal 3:17. The "multitude" is not the remnant, and never has been.
    The Bible says that a remnant will be gathered from the four winds and I believe it. (Matthew 24:31, Isaiah 11)

    We are more than a thousand years away from the NHNE.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    Sound bytes in, sound bytes out.
    "The New Covenant precedes the Old" means it is the Eternal Covenant. Eternal precedes Old. Heb 13.
    You never connect the dots. No one under Mt 5-7. ??? So what? I don't know anyone under Pharisaism (of that time) now, either.
    I have no idea what you mean.

    Sentences are to paragraphs what words are to sentences. But you only give me one sentence at a time! It's like post after post after post is:

    blue!

    trouble!

    excitement?
    You do not know anyone who follows Matthew 5-7.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    It's eternal,
    Behold, the days come when I WILL MAKE....
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    I am oblivious to your fairy tale version, you fiction writer.


    The Bible says that a remnant will be gathered from the four winds and I believe it. (Matthew 24:31, Isaiah 11)

    We are more than a thousand years away from the NHNE.




    How do you lay a stone in Zion when the stone is a person, and when Jerusalem is in a covenant with death?

    On the remnant, there are many more verses than that one. I'm talking about the remnant vs the multitude pretty much all through Israel's history; cp I Cor 10.

    We are definitely more than 1000 years from that because you can build things on something that doesn't exist! Rev21:1: the first earth had passed away.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaulToPaul View Post
    You do not know anyone who follows Matthew 5-7.



    Your point being? Stop blocking your own communication.
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