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Thread: The Wrath of God

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Having nothing to do with being created has nothing to do with what we are talking about.
    fine...you don’t see it? How about we did nothing to be be conceived? We were made alive before we accept it and understood that we were...same as being reborn...


    I am not sure about everything you said.
    is ok...working it out


    We have to accept it;
    well, what I mean is to LIVE we must breathe...we dont have to breathe though...

    But I wish to illustrate we were alive before we breathed...just as we are saved before we acknowlege it...and we don’t HAVE to acknowledge it unless we wish to live forever

    and what are we to accept? We are to accept that Jesus is the Way and we do what he says to be saved.
    yes...but I accept it given with a more accurate name...and that the Way includes more than what is traditionally thought He said we must do to be be saved and certainly stay saved...



    The Bible says God draws all.
    He loved the world...wishes none to be lost... His Son said IF He be lifted up He draws all man



    Faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone.
    yes agreed

    The works we do not have to do are the ceremonial works.
    disagree...the need to shed blood for the remission of sin is fulfilled...the laws against us in ordinances is nailed to the cross...the penalties and debt has been paid...so for instance a woman and man caught in adultery no longer must be stoned...but go and sin no more...judgement comets

    But others such as dietary and festivals are recorded as kept...that Paul taught abolishment of the law is a continuation of jewish false witness...

    Jesus' words are life and we have to do what he says. He says he saves those who obey him.
    and accepting Him/His is indeed only part of what we must do to be saved...and yes obedience is to remain yes...and repentance when we fail to...

    I can give you scripture references for everything I said.
    maybe...best to try and stick to it for sure

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    Not only are you lying...adding to the word or taking away from it...but you are trying to make Him a liar too when He clearly taught “In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.” Matt 5:16

    Him...not even Peter or Paul or James but the One you claim you are in...

    And your rejection of good works is stealing Glory to be given to the Father in heaven for what together with His Son and Holy Spirit did for you...

    “Here are they” says John “who keep the commandments of Yah and the faith OF Yahushua His Son”...

    But I guess he is a liar too...
    The Colossians, like you, were glorying in their works and their Christian lives. What did Paul say to them that deflate their egos?

    "For you are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God" Colossians 3:3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    The Colossians, like you, were glorying in their works and their Christian lives. What did Paul say to them that deflate their egos?

    "For you are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God" Colossians 3:3.
    Let’s read the context to clearly understand the change between before and after becoming in Him:

    If then you were araised with Christ, seek those things which are above, bwhere Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the cearth. 3 dFor you died, eand your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 fWhen Christ who is gour life appears, then you also will appear with Him in hglory.
    5 iTherefore put to death jyour members which are on the earth: kfornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, lwhich is idolatry. 6 mBecause of these things the wrath of God is coming upon nthe sons of disobedience, 7 oin which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.
    8 pBut now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth. 9 Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds, 10 and have put on the new man who qis renewed in knowledge raccording to the image of Him who screated him, 11 where there is neither tGreek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, ubut Christ is all and in all.

    And you wish to claim no change occurs...

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    Let’s read the context to clearly understand the change between before and after becoming in Him:

    If then you were araised with Christ, seek those things which are above, bwhere Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the cearth. 3 dFor you died, eand your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 fWhen Christ who is gour life appears, then you also will appear with Him in hglory.
    5 iTherefore put to death jyour members which are on the earth: kfornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, lwhich is idolatry. 6 mBecause of these things the wrath of God is coming upon nthe sons of disobedience, 7 oin which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.
    8 pBut now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth. 9 Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds, 10 and have put on the new man who qis renewed in knowledge raccording to the image of Him who screated him, 11 where there is neither tGreek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, ubut Christ is all and in all.

    And you wish to claim no change occurs...

    We have to remember that Paul was talking to saved people and to unsaved people. It is the unsaved that need the law, not the saved. The saved are already indwelt with the Holy Spirit and are led by the Spirit. Paul said that the law is our schoolmaster that brings us to Christ, Galatians 3:24. But after faith has come we are no longer under the schoolmaster (the law) Galatians 3:25. After faith is come we live by the Spirit and not the law, Galatians 3:27.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    We have to remember that Paul was talking to saved people and to unsaved people. It is the unsaved that need the law, not the saved. The saved are already indwelt with the Holy Spirit and are led by the Spirit.
    the saved we know are led because they do the Law...live just as He did...

    The Law remains as it is keeps us IN HIM...you wish to do away with law...then you have no legal right to be adopted grafted part of His people...you are lawless...



    Paul said that the law is our schoolmaster that brings us to Christ, Galatians 3:24. But after faith has come we are no longer under the schoolmaster (the law) Galatians 3:25.
    tell me something...when you were in grammar school were you not taught 2 + 2 = 4? Yes? Good...now tell me when you graduated and now no longer need the school master is 2 + 2 STILL 4? Of course and out in the adult world it cannot be anything else or you will need a schooling again...same with this...the Law is now IN OUR HEARTS AND MINDS...nothing changed nothing abolished...

    After faith is come we live by the Spirit and not the law, Galatians 3:27.
    Why would the Spirit want us not to keep it?

    Here are they that keep the commandments and the FAITH OF...live His Faith life Robert...that is the gospel...you CAN for what He did and does for you...

    You need that law to BE IN HIM just as much as the sinner...more so actually...sinners dont care to be...you do

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    the saved we know are led because they do the Law...live just as He did...

    The Law remains as it is keeps us IN HIM...you wish to do away with law...then you have no legal right to be adopted grafted part of His people...you are lawless...



    tell me something...when you were in grammar school were you not taught 2 + 2 = 4? Yes? Good...now tell me when you graduated and now no longer need the school master is 2 + 2 STILL 4? Of course and out in the adult world it cannot be anything else or you will need a schooling again...same with this...the Law is now IN OUR HEARTS AND MINDS...nothing changed nothing abolished...



    Why would the Spirit want us not to keep it?

    Here are they that keep the commandments and the FAITH OF...live His Faith life Robert...that is the gospel...you CAN for what He did and does for you...

    You need that law to BE IN HIM just as much as the sinner...more so actually...sinners dont care to be...you do

    The law does not cause you to be "In Christ" if anything the law and religion will drive you away from Christ and into yourself who is a sinner. This is where you are at now.

    You need to go outside of yourself to someone that is greater than yourself. The law is very subjective because it is about you and your religion. The Gospel is about Christ and his work of redemption that was done on your behalf that justified you. The law does not justify, the law condemns.

    This is why Paul said, "The letter (law) kills, but the Spirit gives life" 2 Corinthians 3:6.

    Religion, law keeping, is like living in a box. While living by the Spirit is joy and freedom. Living by law is living under judgment and condemnation. You might have to find that out in the judgment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    The law does not cause you to be "In Christ" if anything the law and religion will drive you away from Christ and into yourself who is a sinner. This is where you are at now.

    You need to go outside of yourself to someone that is greater than yourself. The law is very subjective because it is about you and your religion. The Gospel is about Christ and his work of redemption that was done on your behalf that justified you. The law does not justify, the law condemns.

    This is why Paul said, "The letter (law) kills, but the Spirit gives life" 2 Corinthians 3:6.

    Religion, law keeping, is like living in a box. While living by the Spirit is joy and freedom. Living by law is living under judgment and condemnation. You might have to find that out in the judgment.
    Look who is talking, you teach that sinners Christ died for are still lost until they do something, into yourself !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Look who is talking, you teach that sinners Christ died for are still lost until they do something, into yourself !

    Your response to the Gospel is no response, which will bring judgment and condemnation on yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    The law does not cause you to be "In Christ"
    the law of adoption sure does...its a covenant how can you miss that? Seriously

    if anything the law and religion will drive you away from Christ and into yourself who is a sinner. This is where you are at now.
    boo hoo gravity made me fall is not what I am saying at all...the Law point to Him my salvation...it warns of the wrath to come if not IN HIM my obedience allows His BLOOD to hide me...BY LAW

    You need to go outside of yourself to someone that is greater than yourself. The law is very subjective because it is about you and your religion.
    LOL...subject to interpretation maybe but I did not write this Law it is HIS given to me...this LAW is HIS FAITH by which He lived as we too are to live...

    [quote]The Gospel is about Christ and his work of redemption that was done on your behalf that justified you. The law does not justify, the law condemns.[/qoute] is why I am grateful for what He did and wish to please Him to protect me from His Father’s wrath...

    This is why Paul said, "The letter (law) kills, but the Spirit gives life" 2 Corinthians 3:6.
    do we destroy this Law by our faith? NOPE we establish it...

    Religion, law keeping, is like living in a box.
    really His religion His faith walk the One established to save and preserve...do this and LIVE...you really are adding and removing things in an accursable manner here...

    While living by the Spirit is joy and freedom.
    becuase you are keeping the LAW duh

    Living by law is living under judgment and condemnation. You might have to find that out in the judgment.
    All that live will be under judgement and condemnation some unto death some unto life...the Law remains...

    Threatening me with what you dont believe exists...the irony...

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    [QUOTE=clefty;5161827]the law of adoption sure does...its a covenant how can you miss that? Seriously

    boo hoo gravity made me fall is not what I am saying at all...the Law point to Him my salvation...it warns of the wrath to come if not IN HIM my obedience allows His BLOOD to hide me...BY LAW

    LOL...subject to interpretation maybe but I did not write this Law it is HIS given to me...this LAW is HIS FAITH by which He lived as we too are to live...

    The Gospel is about Christ and his work of redemption that was done on your behalf that justified you. The law does not justify, the law condemns.[/qoute] is why I am grateful for what He did and wish to please Him to protect me from His Father’s wrath...

    do we destroy this Law by our faith? NOPE we establish it...

    really His religion His faith walk the One established to save and preserve...do this and LIVE...you really are adding and removing things in an accursable manner here...

    becuase you are keeping the LAW duh



    All that live will be under judgement and condemnation some unto death some unto life...the Law remains...

    Threatening me with what you dont believe exists...the irony...

    The Bible is the only thing that we have to go by.

    The Bible explicitly says that the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:6, Colossians 2:14, Hebrews 8:6, 7. 2 Corinthians 3:13. Not to mention that God destroyed the Holy of Holies while Jesus was dying on the cross, Matthew 27:51. Your Jewish religion is obsolete because "The Just Shall Live By Faith" and not by laws, rules or religion.

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    [QUOTE=Robert Pate;5161870]
    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    the law of adoption sure does...its a covenant how can you miss that? Seriously

    boo hoo gravity made me fall is not what I am saying at all...the Law point to Him my salvation...it warns of the wrath to come if not IN HIM my obedience allows His BLOOD to hide me...BY LAW

    LOL...subject to interpretation maybe but I did not write this Law it is HIS given to me...this LAW is HIS FAITH by which He lived as we too are to live...




    The Bible is the only thing that we have to go by.

    The Bible explicitly says that the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:6, Colossians 2:14, Hebrews 8:6, 7. 2 Corinthians 3:13. Not to mention that God destroyed the Holy of Holies while Jesus was dying on the cross, Matthew 27:51. Your Jewish religion is obsolete because "The Just Shall Live By Faith" and not by laws, rules or religion.
    “...do not imitate what is evil, but what is good. He who DOES good is of God, but he who does evil has not seen God.” 3 John 11

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    “The Bible is the only thing that we have to go by.”

    And it ends with the book of revelations the 22 chapter.

    There are some red letter texts back here:

    Rev 22: 12

    And behold I am coming quickly and My reward is with Me to give to every one according to his work

    John follows up His promise with

    Verse 14 “Blessed are those who do His commandments that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter through the gates into the city.
    15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters and whoever loves and practices a lie.”

    So well there ya go...all we got is the Bible and here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith OF His son...

    The end result, conclusion, of living by faith...

    His faith which you disdain is my obsolete jewish religion...these laws and rules of His faith give one the RIGHT to the tree of life...

    Again you said: “Your jewish religion is obsolete because “the Just Shall Live By Faith” and not by laws rules or religion.”

    You completely miss that “the Just shall live by faith” IS the OT covenant...

    As for Paul...

    Was reminded of this text, and you should be too:

    2 Cor 5: 9-10 Therefore we also have as our ambition, whether at home or absent, to be pleasing to Him. For we must ALL appear before the judgement seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
    Last edited by clefty; January 1st, 2018 at 08:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    fine...you don’t see it? How about we did nothing to be be conceived? We were made alive before we accept it and understood that we were...same as being reborn...


    is ok...working it out


    well, what I mean is to LIVE we must breathe...we dont have to breathe though...

    But I wish to illustrate we were alive before we breathed...just as we are saved before we acknowlege it...and we don’t HAVE to acknowledge it unless we wish to live forever
    I do understand what you mean.
    I just don't agree because Jesus says plainly to obey his teachings then he will live in you.

    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post

    yes...but I accept it given with a more accurate name...and that the Way includes more than what is traditionally thought He said we must do to be be saved and certainly stay saved...
    Really? That is interesting; like what?

    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post

    He loved the world...wishes none to be lost... His Son said IF He be lifted up He draws all man
    He was lifted up and draws all, but many resist.

    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post

    yes agreed

    disagree...the need to shed blood for the remission of sin is fulfilled...the laws against us in ordinances is nailed to the cross...the penalties and debt has been paid...so for instance a woman and man caught in adultery no longer must be stoned...but go and sin no more...judgement comets

    But others such as dietary and festivals are recorded as kept...that Paul taught abolishment of the law is a continuation of jewish false witness...
    Jesus told the disciples to do what the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to do because they sat in Moses' seat and enforced the law. Jesus also said that the temple would be destroyed. That is proof that the purification works of the law would be no more one day, and they were worthless when it came to salvation.

    The dietary law was another on cleaning oneself and the observance of special days were all about Jesus. Jesus is our Sabbath Rest and he makes us clean no matter what our diet is.
    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    and accepting Him/His is indeed only part of what we must do to be saved...and yes obedience is to remain yes...and repentance when we fail to...
    I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    maybe...best to try and stick to it for sure
    That is for sure.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Your response to the Gospel is no response, which will bring judgment and condemnation on yourself.
    You are playing the hypocrite, condemning others for salvation by works and you teach and believe salvation by works !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    [QUOTE=Robert Pate;5161870]
    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    the law of adoption sure does...its a covenant how can you miss that? Seriously

    boo hoo gravity made me fall is not what I am saying at all...the Law point to Him my salvation...it warns of the wrath to come if not IN HIM my obedience allows His BLOOD to hide me...BY LAW

    LOL...subject to interpretation maybe but I did not write this Law it is HIS given to me...this LAW is HIS FAITH by which He lived as we too are to live...




    The Bible is the only thing that we have to go by.

    The Bible explicitly says that the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:6, Colossians 2:14, Hebrews 8:6, 7. 2 Corinthians 3:13. Not to mention that God destroyed the Holy of Holies while Jesus was dying on the cross, Matthew 27:51. Your Jewish religion is obsolete because "The Just Shall Live By Faith" and not by laws, rules or religion.
    You dont live by Faith, you dont even believe Jesus Blood saved them He died for !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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