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Thread: The Wrath of God

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    if the cross abolished sin...its been done away with for 2000+ years...who can know sin? Let alone their need of salvation?



    Yup they shall be saved...and then what?

    Keep living as they did before?

    Witness to no one with a life transformed and in accordance to Him His Faith and not of this world?

    You give no credit to the Holy Spirit. The law has been replaced by the Holy Spirit. You can read about that in Hebrews 8:6-13.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    You give no credit to the Holy Spirit. The law has been replaced by the Holy Spirit. You can read about that in Hebrews 8:6-13.
    Lol...the law replaced by the Holy Spirit...which Way do you think the Holy Spirit would lead you...

    You think the Holy Spirit would have you do other than the Father’s Will? Divide His House between those that do His will and those that dont?

    You are lost in the woods but you have a map...you are lost anyway...hiker comes by and says “I have lived in these woods all my life I can lead you out...follow me”

    you think that hiker is going to lead you off the path? BTW the hiker drew the map...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Nobody wants to talk about the wrath of God. God has emotions, just like us. When he gets mad he exhibits his wrath. If it wasn't for his Son Jesus Christ he would have wrapped up this whole universe in one big ball of fire when Adam sinned. Thankfully, God knew that Adam was going to sin and that Jesus would atone for his sin and the sins of the whole world before the foundation of the world, Revelation 13:8.

    For now, God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ. Those that are "In Christ" will not experience God's wrath, but those that are not "In Christ" will in the judgment.

    "He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that does not believe on the Son shall not see life; BUT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDES ON HIM" John 3:36.

    Paul said that the wrath of God would come upon the "Children of disobedience" Ephesians 5:6 also Colossians 3:6 and then he said that the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, WHO HOLD THE TRUTH IN UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, Romans 1:18. That would include all of the cults and all religions that have not obeyed the Gospel of Jesus Christ, Romans 10:16. To obey the Gospel means to cease from your own works or religion and to rest or trust in the work of Christ for your salvation.

    "For we which do believe have entered into HIS REST, as he has said, As I have sworn in my wrath, IF THEY SHALL NOT ENTER INTO MY REST: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world" Hebrews 4:3.

    This scripture also pertains to the Israelites that were disobedient in the wilderness and would not enter into the promised land because of unbelief and disobedience, Hebrews 3:10. What it amounts to is do you believe God? God sends Jesus into the world to be our savior. All that Jesus is and all that Jesus does is for our justification and our salvation. By faith in him and in his Gospel we have eternal life, John 3:16. Do you believe God? If you believe God, then it is the Gospel plus nothing. If it is the Gospel plus something, then it is no longer the Gospel and you have not entered into his rest.
    Those not saved will suffer God's wrath; even those who believe but have lived in sin will suffer God's wrath and must repent. They are of the only ones who do repent when the wrath comes.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Nobody wants to talk about the wrath of God. God has emotions, just like us. When he gets mad he exhibits his wrath. If it wasn't for his Son Jesus Christ he would have wrapped up this whole universe in one big ball of fire when Adam sinned. Thankfully, God knew that Adam was going to sin and that Jesus would atone for his sin and the sins of the whole world before the foundation of the world, Revelation 13:8.

    For now, God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ. Those that are "In Christ" will not experience God's wrath, but those that are not "In Christ" will in the judgment.

    "He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that does not believe on the Son shall not see life; BUT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDES ON HIM" John 3:36.

    Paul said that the wrath of God would come upon the "Children of disobedience" Ephesians 5:6 also Colossians 3:6 and then he said that the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, WHO HOLD THE TRUTH IN UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, Romans 1:18. That would include all of the cults and all religions that have not obeyed the Gospel of Jesus Christ, Romans 10:16. To obey the Gospel means to cease from your own works or religion and to rest or trust in the work of Christ for your salvation.

    "For we which do believe have entered into HIS REST, as he has said, As I have sworn in my wrath, IF THEY SHALL NOT ENTER INTO MY REST: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world" Hebrews 4:3.

    This scripture also pertains to the Israelites that were disobedient in the wilderness and would not enter into the promised land because of unbelief and disobedience, Hebrews 3:10. What it amounts to is do you believe God? God sends Jesus into the world to be our savior. All that Jesus is and all that Jesus does is for our justification and our salvation. By faith in him and in his Gospel we have eternal life, John 3:16. Do you believe God? If you believe God, then it is the Gospel plus nothing. If it is the Gospel plus something, then it is no longer the Gospel and you have not entered into his rest.
    What you ignore and reject is those that left Israel left by faith...and were saved...repeatedly...but STILL they did NOT enter the promised land...as they lost their temporal salvation due to losing faith no longer believing and thus disobedient...but they were initially saved

    Faith without works is INDEED dead...we must persevere...run and finish the race encourages Paul...once in Him we follow Him JUST AS...as He instructed and did...

    His House His Rest is provided by His Law...it’s His House rules...and once we are in it we no longer have to do chores we WANT to...it’s our house now by Law

    You wish to destroy this Law and divide His House...

    Might I suggest you move to the “do what thou whilst...anything goes...no rules here” house?

    Will miss you but you would be happier there...no required rest keeping there either

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    What you ignore and reject is those that left Israel left by faith...and were saved...repeatedly...but STILL they did NOT enter the promised land...as they lost their temporal salvation due to losing faith no longer believing and thus disobedient...but they were initially saved

    Faith without works is INDEED dead...we must persevere...run and finish the race encourages Paul...once in Him we follow Him JUST AS...as He instructed and did...

    His House His Rest is provided by His Law...it’s His House rules...and once we are in it we no longer have to do chores we WANT to...it’s our house now by Law

    You wish to destroy this Law and divide His House...

    Might I suggest you move to the “do what thou whilst...anything goes...no rules here” house?

    Will miss you but you would be happier there...no required rest keeping there either

    Like I said on another thread you give absolutely no credit to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Christians guide and keeper, not the law. This is why the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. The law has been replaced by the Holy Spirit. Under the New Covenant "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17. And by the Spirit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Like I said on another thread you give absolutely no credit to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Christians guide and keeper, not the law.
    there are false spirits happily guiding and keeping those not according to Him His way...this Holy Spirit is indeed the guide...the map remains to prove it...

    This is why the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15.
    so you didnt study the difference the law of traffic and the law of ticket...one is the will of the giver the other the law of repayment...

    Interesting factoid: ordnance as in military weaponry stems from the legal term ordinance...now knowing that remember the Law is not against you but the ordinance for breaking it is coming right at you...

    That bullet to your head was abolished at the cross...not the Law demanding repayment prior restoration


    The law has been replaced by the Holy Spirit.
    nope...the Holy Spirit helps you keep it...is why its such a COMFORTER...He keeps you faithful...IN HIM...covered from the Wrath and His divine ordnance...

    Under the New Covenant "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17.
    as was first quoted in the OT...lol...and Abraham a hero of it...the Hebrews Israel had faith and were saved BEFORE they even knew the Law...even Noah had faith first and then was saved...by his work on the ark...lol


    And by the Spirit.
    That New Covenant Spirit still had His followers hurry to bury Him to keep the Sabbath...Paul to continue to do so...James intending even the gentiles to keep hearing Moses every Sabbath...Peter keeping kosher...Paul hurrying back to Jerusalem to keep the feast and instructing us to do so...

    Yup there it was the Holy Spirit keeping His faithful to His faith...Him His Way...making their good works manifest to bring glory to Yah

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Like I said on another thread you give absolutely no credit to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Christians guide and keeper, not the law. This is why the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. The law has been replaced by the Holy Spirit. Under the New Covenant "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17. And by the Spirit.
    The Wrath being the topic of this thread is exactly proof the “just shall live by faith” was already in the OT...

    The Wrath was to the kill first born of all of those who did not believe they were descendants of Abraham or in Israel’s God being mightier than Egypts...

    However the faith this Wrath would come and kill COMPELLED them then to works...to obedience to rules like the killing of a spotless lamb after keeping it a designated time period and then the sprinkling of its blood on 2 side posts and on the lintel of the houses...do you see all the works which FOLLOWED the faith which was first?

    I imagine you would be the Hebrew tired of the rules sprinkling the 2 doorposts but ignoring the lintel as it was “too much work...why bother? Faith is enough”...hahaha

    This Wrath which says “WHEN I SEE I WILL PASS OVER” sees the sign which confirms the faith prior...and so they live...

    And again...all of Israel (and some foreigners joining) were saved from sin/slavery/Egypt were saved for their FAITH not even knowing of the LAW...

    But when the Law was revealed they wished to keep it (well...) for what was ALREADY done for them and by their faith...not one worked to earn freedom...

    And finally, this blood sacrifice for the Wrath to pass over was a gratitude offering not even a sin offering...the irony...not about saving or to be justified at all...but gratitude for being saved first

    Israel was saved because they had faith in the inheritance LAW made to their father Abraham...a promise given again for his FAITH...Israel’s faith they were chosen by promise was possible by LAW...no proof just do you believe you are descendant...even foreigners were under the same law by the law of ADOPTION

    And here you distort and twist everything to prattle on about OT Laws being abolished...

    No law? No adoption...no grafting...no Holy Spirit guiding you as there is no salvation...you reject Its authority and authorization...

    You are lawless...

    You are aware how laws authorize right?

    The Lord of London is given authority by the city of London right?

    The Lord of the Rings is given power by the rings yes?

    The Lord of the flies...

    Same with Lord of the Sabbath...the Law affirms the Giver...is why we are to establish it...

    The Wrath passes over the faithful which are obedient...is why they live...is why He is not only god but a good God...

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    clefty.


    It appears to me that you have not entered into "His Rest" and that you are trying to be good enough to be saved by keeping the commandments.

    The law will not make you righteous. The law will damn you to hell.

    Paul wrote, "For we which have believed do enter into HIS REST" Hebrews 4:3. If you don't enter into his rest you will be under his wrath.

    We rest in what Jesus has accomplished in our name and on our behalf, Hebrews 4:9, 10.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    clefty.


    It appears to me that you have not entered into "His Rest" and that you are trying to be good enough to be saved by keeping the commandments.

    The law will not make you righteous. The law will damn you to hell.

    Paul wrote, "For we which have believed do enter into HIS REST" Hebrews 4:3. If you don't enter into his rest you will be under his wrath.

    We rest in what Jesus has accomplished in our name and on our behalf, Hebrews 4:9, 10.
    Robert I hope you read scripture better than my posts...

    But from what I see it is doubtful...

    How many more times do I have to repeat...I want to do works His works prepared for me and BECAUSE I HAVE ALREADY BEEN SAVED BY WHAT HE DID AND DOES FOR ME...

    Can’t repeat it enough...IF YOU LOVE ME...DO SOMETHING NOT JUST BELIEVE

    The just shall live by faith...and they will know you by your fruits...His Way His faith

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    Robert I hope you read scripture better than my posts...

    But from what I see it is doubtful...

    How many more times do I have to repeat...I want to do works His works prepared for me and BECAUSE I HAVE ALREADY BEEN SAVED BY WHAT HE DID AND DOES FOR ME...

    Can’t repeat it enough...IF YOU LOVE ME...DO SOMETHING NOT JUST BELIEVE

    The just shall live by faith...and they will know you by your fruits...His Way His faith
    The way it looks is that Robert Pate is going to find out the hard way.

    I did notice that you are as so many, and that is that you are afraid to say you believed and obeyed to get saved.

    We have to believe and repent of our sins when we want to be saved.

    It is not shameful and it is not the 'not of by works' Paul speaks of.

    Paul is speaking of the works of the law which are the purification/ceremonial works.

    Faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone.

    Faith alone is mentioned one time in the KJV, and it is to tell us what kind of faith not to have.

    That dead faith is not saving faith, it really is dead.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    The way it looks is that Robert Pate is going to find out the hard way.

    I did notice that you are as so many, and that is that you are afraid to say you believed and obeyed to get saved.

    We have to believe and repent of our sins when we want to be saved.


    It is not shameful and it is not the 'not of by works' Paul speaks of.

    Paul is speaking of the works of the law which are the purification/ceremonial works.

    Faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone.

    Faith alone is mentioned one time in the KJV, and it is to tell us what kind of faith not to have.

    That dead faith is not saving faith, it really is dead.
    Yes this is a tricky part to unpack...our choice...

    I liken it to “What did Adam do to be created?” NOTHING...he merely had to acknowledge he was and by Whom or reject it and believe he just came to be as a part of a evolutionary process...or aliens or...so it goes...

    That Adam chose to believe was because he already was...it was provided to him to be...

    And believing that it compelled him to be grateful and obey and oh wait...it should have...lol

    The same is with us...Salvation was provided before I was born...I must simply accept it...

    Which means of course “work” on my part is necessitated to understand my need for salvation and from whence it comes and take the chance to believe that it is provided by Him...no small task is true...but no one can come to Him lest the Father draws Him...

    As a result of this “work” of understanding and choosing I of course wish and want and desire to not only accept but share my gratitude with Him who provided and others...and so I am compelled do what the “owners manual” expects for this temple to do in order to perform optimally in this condition...

    Just like Adam after acknowledging His Creator’s creative act obeyed...(should have)

    We too do because we are...we are because we believe...

    The baby does not breathe to become alive...the baby breathes because it already is alive...

    That was the original plan...original default was Adam would obey because he was created to wish to do so...we are merely on a detour...we were given a map and have a Guide...just gotta chose and persevere

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    The book of Titus offers understanding as to what manner of faith life the rightous/just live by.

    And the ones who don’t:

    “They profess to know God but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient and disqualified for every good work” Titus 1:8

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    The book of Titus offers understanding as to what manner of faith life the rightous/just live by.

    And the ones who don’t:

    “They profess to know God but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient and disqualified for every good work” Titus 1:8

    Your emphasis on your works is a concern. Your emphasis should be on what Christ has accomplished in your name and on your behalf. God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners, which you and GT are one of. God only accepts the works and the obedience of Jesus Christ. We are accepted only in him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Your emphasis on your works is a concern. Your emphasis should be on what Christ has accomplished in your name and on your behalf. God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners, which you and GT are one of. God only accepts the works and the obedience of Jesus Christ. We are accepted only in him.
    Not only are you lying...adding to the word or taking away from it...but you are trying to make Him a liar too when He clearly taught “In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.” Matt 5:16

    Him...not even Peter or Paul or James but the One you claim you are in...

    And your rejection of good works is stealing Glory to be given to the Father in heaven for what together with His Son and Holy Spirit did for you...

    “Here are they” says John “who keep the commandments of Yah and the faith OF Yahushua His Son”...

    But I guess he is a liar too...

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    Yes this is a tricky part to unpack...our choice...

    I liken it to “What did Adam do to be created?” NOTHING...
    Having nothing to do with being created has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post

    he merely had to acknowledge he was and by Whom or reject it and believe he just came to be as a part of a evolutionary process...or aliens or...so it goes...
    I am not sure about everything you said.

    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    That Adam chose to believe was because he already was...it was provided to him to be...

    And believing that it compelled him to be grateful and obey and oh wait...it should have...lol
    Right? lol
    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    The same is with us...Salvation was provided before I was born...I must simply accept it...
    We have to accept it; and what are we to accept? We are to accept that Jesus is the Way and we do what he says to be saved.

    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    Which means of course “work” on my part is necessitated to understand my need for salvation and from whence it comes and take the chance to believe that it is provided by Him...no small task is true...but no one can come to Him lest the Father draws Him...
    The Bible says God draws all.

    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    As a result of this “work” of understanding and choosing I of course wish and want and desire to not only accept but share my gratitude with Him who provided and others...and so I am compelled do what the “owners manual” expects for this temple to do in order to perform optimally in this condition...

    Just like Adam after acknowledging His Creator’s creative act obeyed...(should have)

    We too do because we are...we are because we believe...

    The baby does not breathe to become alive...the baby breathes because it already is alive...

    That was the original plan...original default was Adam would obey because he was created to wish to do so...we are merely on a detour...we were given a map and have a Guide...just gotta chose and persevere
    Faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone. The works we do not have to do are the ceremonial works.

    Jesus' words are life and we have to do what he says. He says he saves those who obey him.

    I can give you scripture references for everything I said.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

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