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Thread: Why Homosexuality MUST Be Recriminalized! Part 5

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    Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
    While there are thousands and thousands of success stories out there, if just one person (just one) is able to overcome those odds and lead a normal and happy life because of spiritual and/or psychological therapy, then that is proof that homosexuality is a changeable desire and behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    There's only one measure of "success" if conversion therapy actually works in its supposed aim. That being, for people to change from having a homosexual orientation to a heterosexual one
    Perhaps in your mind, but you don't speak for others.

    Keep in mind that even if 'success' were what you and the LGBT movement claim it should be, we live in a culture that says change is impossible when it comes to same sex desires (other harmful desires are changeable, but according to the LGBT movement, homosexual desires are not). Encouragement is a huge part of overcoming unwanted desires and behavior, and until society encourages change for those with unwanted same sex desires, the playing field is extremely slanted for the homosexual movement.

    Also keep in mind that those EX homosexuals that have married and fathered or mothered children are told that they're liars and are just putting on a façade.
    The very long history of Donald Trump's pro homosexual and transgender activism, before and during his Presidency, can be found on page 141, post # 2113 and #2114.
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336963
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336964

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kit the Coyote View Post
    So I have a few questions I would like to get the feel of your position on. These aren't trick questions to lure into a trap or anything.
    Not to worry, as when you're only interested in the truth, and that truth is based on God's Word as seen in Holy Scripture, you can't be "trapped" into anything.

    I think we can take as a given that you feel conversion therapies, regardless of how much harm they may or may not do, should remain legal as long some group, no matter how small, can claim success from such treatments. Yes?
    Remember that it was unmentionable "harm" that caused these homosexual desires in childhood to begin with. The "harm" found in the homosexual lifestyle has been well documented throughout this 5 part thread. So when you're using the word "harm", you're really taking it out of context.
    That being said: once homosexuality is again made illegal and our nation's cultural mores' change to embrace decency, the LGBT movement will dissolve and amongst other things allow those wanting to seek therapy for their same sex desires to do so.

    Would you agree that reasonable regulation and limitations to prevent obvious harm and fraud that is applied to all medical therapies should be applied to these therapies? Reasonable being defined by what the average person thinks is reasonable not what the pro or anti-LGBT movements might think is reasonable. For examples, banning trepidation, lobotomies, etc. would be reasonable. And just for emphasis, I repeat we are talking about the same standards that would be applied to all such treatments, not just conversion therapy.
    According to non rainbow flag waving experts, primitive SOCE therapy hasn't been done for over 50 years, yet your LGBT movement continues to push the lie that they are currently being used.

    Would you agree that persons who have no desire to undergo such treatments should have that right?
    Immoral behavior and sexual perversion aren't a "right". Once homosexuality is recriminalized these people who have same sex desires and engage in them, desires that were brought on predominantly through childhood trauma, would be subjected to the criminal justice system if caught in the act of homosexuality and without a doubt therapy would be an option when convicted and sentenced. Keep in mind that those in the LGBT movement are guilty of many more crimes than same sex sodomy, as I pointed out in earlier posts, so punishment would have to be used.

    Would you agree that public decency laws such as laws against nudity, public sex acts, etc. should be enforced but only as long as they are enforced against all persons equally?
    I'm not aware of any other groups that are allowed immunity to these criminal acts other than the homosexual movement.

    Would you agree that laws concerning rape, pedophilia, and age of consent should be enforced but only as long as they are enforced against all persons equally?
    If there are others groups besides your LGBT movement that are involved in the above, I would refer to them as "LGBT allies". Yes, laws should be enforced against all perverts, whether their perversion is homosexual or heterosexual based.

    Would you agree that society should discourage sexually active adults from engaging in multi-partner anonymous sex, and unsafe sex as long as such discouragement is applied to all persons equally?
    Society should discourage out of wedlock sex and promote traditional marriage.

    Would you agree that knowledge-based education and encouragement of long term committed relationships through such institutions as marriage are effective tools to help provide such discouragement of above?
    Sexual perversion is still sexual perversion no matter how long the participants have been together or if they label a fictitious title such as "marriage" to their unnatural relationship.

    Would you agree that consenting adults who engage in safe sex, are not engaged in multi-partner anonymous relationships, are disease free, and their romantic activities are the same as the average persons should have a right to their private relationships?
    Again, perversion is perversion and cannot be compared to the nucleus of society: the traditional family via traditional marriage.

    Remember that you're talking to a Christian who loves God with all of his heart, soul and mind, and who loves his neighbor as he loves himself, not to TOL's many Libertarians (or is it one pretending to be many?) who don't abide by Jesus' Greatest Commandments.
    The very long history of Donald Trump's pro homosexual and transgender activism, before and during his Presidency, can be found on page 141, post # 2113 and #2114.
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336963
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336964

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    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    Remember that it was unmentionable "harm" that caused these homosexual desires in childhood to begin with. The "harm" found in the homosexual lifestyle has been well documented throughout this 5 part thread. So when you're using the word "harm", you're really taking it out of context.
    That being said: once homosexuality is again made illegal and our nation's cultural mores' change to embrace decency, the LGBT movement will dissolve and amongst other things allow those wanting to seek therapy for their same sex desires to do so.
    I wasn't talking about harm prior to treatment, I was talking about potential harm the treatment itself does. But never mind this one was a gimme anyway as it is clearly your position I just ask to validate it. So I take the answer as yes. I honestly don't have a problem with it as long as minors are not forced into the programs and the next question is answered yes. It is interesting that you think that allowing additional harm on top of the harm you claim has been done is okay by you.

    According to non rainbow flag waving experts, primitive SOCE therapy hasn't been done for over 50 years, yet your LGBT movement continues to push the lie that they are currently being used.
    I was not implying it was, I was using a couple of obvious examples of what would be reasonable regulation. So I noticed you ducked the question, should the therapies be subject to the same type of regulation and limitation as all other therapies are subject to? Unless you answer it we'll take this one as no. So if you approve of an anything goes lack of regulation of these programs am I to take it you would approve of those 'primitive' treatments being brought back?

    Immoral behavior and sexual perversion aren't a "right". Once homosexuality is recriminalized these people who have same sex desires and engage in them, desires that were brought on predominantly through childhood trauma, would be subjected to criminal justice system if caught in the act of homosexuality and without a doubt therapy would be an option when convicted and sentenced. Keep in mind that those in the LGBT movement are guilty of many more crimes than same sex sodomy, as I pointed out in earlier posts, so punishment would have to be used.
    Why do you have to overthink the answers, again the question ducked but I think we can say from the answer you believe no that people do not have the right to refuse these therapies.

    I'm not aware of any other groups that are allowed immunity to these criminal acts other than the homosexual movement.
    You have clearly never been to a Mardi Gras parade or spring break. I'm not asking about immunity for one group or another, I'm asking if ALL groups should be treated the same. I'm going to take this one as yes and I happen to agree with you on it.


    If there are others groups besides your LGBT movement that are involved in the above, I would refer to them as "LGBT allies". Yes, laws should be enforced against all perverts, whether their perversion is homosexual or heterosexual based.
    Good, we agree again.

    Society should discourage out of wedlock sex and promote traditional marriage.
    So sort of a yes answer but caveated. The days of sex only in marriage actually never really existed and post birth control is a genie you are never going to put back in the bottle. So I consider the caveats unrealistic.

    Sexual perversion is still sexual perversion no matter how long the participants have been together or if they label a fictitious title such as "marriage" to their unnatural relationship.
    The question completely ducked. Remember these questions are general, they apply to everyone, not just homosexuals.

    Again, perversion is perversion and cannot be compared to the nucleus of society: the traditional family via traditional marriage.
    The question completely ducked.

    So pretty much what I expected and even where we have some agreement you have to expand and dance around the question in such a way that is very disturbing.
    "Repubs must not allow [The President] to subvert the Constitution of the US for his own benefit & because he is unable to negotiate w/ Congress," Donald Trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
    I'm sure there are a few members left in both rainbow flag waving APA's that consider homosexuality an unnatural desire and behavior, but they're undoubtedly few and far between. If you can find out who they are, I would like to know their names.



    Funny you should ask:

    New Study on Sexual Orientation Change Efforts

    August 23, 2018

    "... a new study on SOCE titled “Effects of Therapy on Religious Men Who Have Unwanted Same-Sex Attraction
    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10....24363918788559

    was published on July 23. In a brief introduction to SOCE history, the authors note the irony in the 2009 American Psychological Association report advising against change therapy due to an alleged lack of methodologically rigorous research proving it safe or effective, that then recommended gay-affirmative therapy, which lacks the same validation of safety and efficacy. They added that the “research community ignores all the positive study results from the dozens of SOCE studies done over the past several decades,” while giving a pass to gay-affirmative therapy with the same deficiencies.
    In citing other studies supportive of SOCE—including a 2009 NARTH literature review—they bring up adversarial studies such as the 2002 Shidlo and Schroeder survey (initially recruited for SOCE dissatisfaction with predictable results) and the 2015 study by Dehlin et al. As for the latter, Christopher Rosik notes that the authors were known anti-SOCE gay advocates, so pro-change groups refused to participate (e.g. the former Evergreen Int’l) or were not invited (e.g. NARTH), thus further skewing results. Also, their five-point rating scale had a non-neutral midpoint (“not effective”) and combined two qualities—effectiveness and harmfulness—rather than rating them separately. Both studies have been referred to as anti-SOCE advocacy research. The current study authors state “many informal groups supporting SOCE now decline research participation because of past experiences with unethical practices by researchers.”
    Read more: https://cmda.org/new-study-on-sexual...hange-efforts/
    The article to which "aCultureWarrior" is referring, “Effects of Therapy on Religious Men Who Have Unwanted Same-Sex Attraction,” was published in "The Linacre Quarterly," the journal for the Catholic Medical Association - apparently the only 2 sources that he can cite all have religious affiliations!

    Two of the 3 authors (Paul L. Santero, Dolores Ballesteros) are affiliated with the Southern California Seminary, El Cajon, California. Neither Santero and Ballesteros appear as members of the staff for SCS.

    SCS is a private institution of higher education dedicated to teaching from the inerrant Word of God. Here you will learn about God from His book - the Bible.
    The Southern California Bible College and Seminary was an amalgamation of the "Linda Vista Baptist Bible College and Seminary," the "San Diego Bible College and Seminary" and the "Fletcher Hills Bible College."

    https://www.bestmastersdegrees.com/c...ornia-seminary
    Last edited by jgarden; February 10th, 2019 at 12:22 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgarden View Post
    The article to which "aCultureWarrior" is referring, “Effects of Therapy on Religious Men Who Have Unwanted Same-Sex Attraction,” was published in "The Linacre Quarterly," the journal for the Catholic Medical Association - apparently the only 2 sources that he can cite all have religious affiliations!

    Tw of the 3 authors (Paul L. Santero, Dolores Ballesteros) are affiliated with the Southern California Seminary, El Cajon, California.
    I checked around and discovered that Human Rights Campaign (founded by pederast Terry Bean) refused to publish the study.
    The very long history of Donald Trump's pro homosexual and transgender activism, before and during his Presidency, can be found on page 141, post # 2113 and #2114.
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336963
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336964

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    Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
    Remember that it was unmentionable "harm" that caused these homosexual desires in childhood to begin with. The "harm" found in the homosexual lifestyle has been well documented throughout this 5 part thread. So when you're using the word "harm", you're really taking it out of context.
    That being said: once homosexuality is again made illegal and our nation's cultural mores' change to embrace decency, the LGBT movement will dissolve and amongst other things allow those wanting to seek therapy for their same sex desires to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kit the Coyote View Post
    I wasn't talking about harm prior to treatment, I was talking about potential harm the treatment itself does. But never mind this one was a gimme anyway as it is clearly your position I just ask to validate it. So I take the answer as yes. I honestly don't have a problem with it as long as minors are not forced into the programs and the next question is answered yes. It is interesting that you think that allowing additional harm on top of the harm you claim has been done is okay by you.
    While anyone that fails to meet their goals when it comes to overcoming an unwanted desire (in this case a deadly one) would experience disappointment and even might "harm" themselves due to that disappointment, we're dealing with movement that tells people that change is not possible. Even when it's been proven that change is possible, your LGBT movement continues to deny it, so "harm" is not only expected of those who allegedly fail, it's embraced by your LGBT movement.
    Remember Kit: If it became well known that change is possible, and even likely, then the movement that perpetuated the biggest fraud of the past 50 years would be exposed.

    Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
    According to non rainbow flag waving experts, primitive SOCE therapy hasn't been done for over 50 years, yet your LGBT movement continues to push the lie that they are currently being used.

    I was not implying it was, I was using a couple of obvious examples of what would be reasonable regulation.
    Examples that haven't been pertinent for a half century.

    So I noticed you ducked the question, should the therapies be subject to the same type of regulation and limitation as all other therapies are subject to? Unless you answer it we'll take this one as no. So if you approve of an anything goes lack of regulation of these programs am I to take it you would approve of those 'primitive' treatments being brought back?
    Look at my last few posts and those that I'd posted in the past discussions on SOCE. Unbiased (professionals who aren't rainbow flag waving frauds) have shown that SOCE therapy is a psychologically sound practice. Remember that spirituality plays a huge role in SOCE success rates, so psychology isn't the only factor involved in SOCE.

    Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
    Immoral behavior and sexual perversion aren't a "right". Once homosexuality is recriminalized these people who have same sex desires and engage in them, desires that were brought on predominantly through childhood trauma, would be subjected to criminal justice system if caught in the act of homosexuality and without a doubt therapy would be an option when convicted and sentenced. Keep in mind that those in the LGBT movement are guilty of many more crimes than same sex sodomy, as I pointed out in earlier posts, so punishment would have to be used.

    Why do you have to overthink the answers, again the question ducked but I think we can say from the answer you believe no that people do not have the right to refuse these therapies.
    If they want to continue with their culture of death once homosexuality is recriminalized and face the penalties that go with those laws, they have that "right".

    Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
    I'm not aware of any other groups that are allowed immunity to these criminal acts other than the homosexual movement.

    You have clearly never been to a Mardi Gras parade or spring break. I'm not asking about immunity for one group or another, I'm asking if ALL groups should be treated the same. I'm going to take this one as yes and I happen to agree with you on it.
    I slapped my forehead minutes after I sent that post as it's standard operational procedure for homosexual activists to use Mardi Gras to defend 'gay' pride parades. Yes, a 300+ year religious festival
    https://www.mardigrasneworleans.com/history/?
    pretty much has turned into a huge drunken party with some public nudity and lewd activity. While I don't believe that like 'gay' pride parades Mardi Gras or Spring Break have agendas that deny religious freedom, take away parental rights, or redefine invaluable institutions, I will get around to starting a thread entitled:

    "Why Mardi Gras and Spring Break MUST Be Made Criminal!"

    Yeah, uh huh, I'll get right on that Kit.

    Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
    If there are others groups besides your LGBT movement that are involved in the above, I would refer to them as "LGBT allies". Yes, laws should be enforced against all perverts, whether their perversion is homosexual or heterosexual based.

    Good, we agree again.
    I'll glad that we finally agree that the child indoctrinating/molesting homosexual movement is made up of proud and unrepentant perverts.

    Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
    Society should discourage out of wedlock sex and promote traditional marriage.

    So sort of a yes answer but caveated. The days of sex only in marriage actually never really existed and post birth control is a genie you are never going to put back in the bottle. So I consider the caveats unrealistic.
    Laws against cohabitation were not that long ago on the legislative books. Out of wedlock sex was frowned upon, not glorified, and when a woman became pregnant due to it, the good ole shotgun wedding usually followed.

    In order to return to decency, sexual perversion must first be stopped.

    Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
    Sexual perversion is still sexual perversion no matter how long the participants have been together or if they label a fictitious title such as "marriage" to their unnatural relationship.

    The question completely ducked. Remember these questions are general, they apply to everyone, not just homosexuals.
    I spent years dealing with criminal defense lawyers answering their questions under oath in court. You're foolish if you think that you can pull one over on me and get me to fall into your "yes or no" line of questioning.

    Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
    Again, perversion is perversion and cannot be compared to the nucleus of society: the traditional family via traditional marriage.

    The question completely ducked.
    i.e. it wasn't answered the way homosexual activist Kit the Coyote wanted it answered.

    So pretty much what I expected and even where we have some agreement you have to expand and dance around the question in such a way that is very disturbing.
    Back to the drawing board ey Kit?
    The very long history of Donald Trump's pro homosexual and transgender activism, before and during his Presidency, can be found on page 141, post # 2113 and #2114.
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336963
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336964

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    This Ridiculous New Study Is Still Trying to Prove Conversion Therapy Actually Works
    -Daniel Villarreal
    August 24, 2018

    (1) It’s based on old data from 2011

    (2) its flawed methodology proves nothing
    - each man had been subjected to different types of treatment in different programs, the study doesn’t conclusively prove that SOCEs work

    (3) its two main authors are non-certified psychologists and the 3rd a “semi-retired earth scientist”
    -authors Paul Santero and Dolores Ballesteros have psychology doctorates from a Catholic seminary not certified by the accredited American Psychological Association
    - Neil Whitehead, is a self-proclaimed earth scientist with no psychology degree
    - all three have longstanding careers profiting off ex-gay therapy

    (4) it was published in a journal with the goal of upholding the Catholic faith
    - the Linacre Quarterly, a publication owned by the Catholic Medical Association -- the stated mission of which is to “uphold the principles of the Catholic faith in the science and practice of medicine” and which considers homosexuality as having “personally disintegrative effects.”

    https://hornet.com/stories/ex-gay-study-catholic/

    https://thinkprogress.org/ex-gay-con...-f4b9278e2c12/
    Last edited by jgarden; February 12th, 2019 at 07:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    While anyone that fails to meet their goals when it comes to overcoming an unwanted desire (in this case a deadly one) would experience disappointment and even might "harm" themselves due to that disappointment, we're dealing with movement that tells people that change is not possible. Even when it's been proven that change is possible, your LGBT movement continues to deny it, so "harm" is not only expected of those who allegedly fail, it's embraced by your LGBT movement.
    Remember Kit: If it became well known that change is possible, and even likely, then the movement that perpetuated the biggest fraud of the past 50 years would be exposed.
    There has always been a certain amount of fluidity around the edges of sexual orientation and bisexuals exist. The real question then is the amount of change that is possible and whether or not it can be forced without excessive harm. Which is why it is critical to proving that it is changeable as you say, you have to establish a solid psychological examination of the patient going into the program being studied to have a solid baseline. Something that none of these programs do even the ones being done by supposed licensed professionals. Which again goes back to not doing the hard work, it is not my fault that the people doing studies to prove your point are lazy.

    Examples that haven't been pertinent for a half century.
    Because everyone agrees they are dangerous and thus make excellent examples of my point.

    Look at my last few posts and those that I'd posted in the past discussions on SOCE. Unbiased (professionals who aren't rainbow flag waving frauds) have shown that SOCE therapy is a psychologically sound practice. Remember that spirituality plays a huge role in SOCE success rates, so psychology isn't the only factor involved in SOCE.
    The one peer-reviewed study that found that some SOCE can work under 'limited' conditions was exactly what you point out, Persons who had very strong spiritual faith was the limiting factor. The problem is this doesn't fit most patients. And as you have made clear, you would force patients into the programs who do not have that faith. And as pointed out there are safer forms of treatment that can produce the same results.

    If they want to continue with their culture of death once homosexuality is recriminalized and face the penalties that go with those laws, they have that "right".
    Good, we can agree on that then.

    I'll glad that we finally agree that the child indoctrinating/molesting homosexual movement is made up of proud and unrepentant perverts.
    I think we can agree that child molesting perverts that exist in the movement should be punished yes, anything else is your distortion of the point.

    Laws against cohabitation were not that long ago on the legislative books. Out of wedlock sex was frowned upon, not glorified, and when a woman became pregnant due to it, the good ole shotgun wedding usually followed.

    In order to return to decency, sexual perversion must first be stopped.
    And it wasn't homosexuals that took them off the books, this is why my emphasis on laws being applied equally. If society as a whole wishes to return to those laws I have no problem with that as long as it applies to everybody. Though as a libertarian-leaning individual, I think it should be none of the government's business.

    So you think that forcing children to be raised in potentially unloving hateful households is a good thing? Because that was the problem with the shotgun wedding idea.

    I spent years dealing with criminal defense lawyers answering their questions under oath in court. You're foolish if you think that you can pull one over on me and get me to fall into your "yes or no" line of questioning.

    i.e. it wasn't answered the way homosexual activist Kit the Coyote wanted it answered.
    I really just wanted to clarify the differences in how you think and I think. And the questions you decided to duck are really quite telling.

    Back to the drawing board ey Kit?
    Not really, I found out what I wanted to know. The real question at this point is there any point in even continuing the discussion.
    "Repubs must not allow [The President] to subvert the Constitution of the US for his own benefit & because he is unable to negotiate w/ Congress," Donald Trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgarden View Post
    (2) its flawed methodology proves nothing
    - each man had been subjected to different types of treatment in different programs, the study doesn’t conclusively prove that SOCEs work
    One of the points I raised on the problems with conversion therapy, there is no standardized methodology being considered. They lump it all together based on the outcome, not the method. But you can't test it that way. In reality, every one of these treatments would have to proven separately in peer-reviewed studies to be considered valid. Which is why aCW's constant harping on change is possible is really meaningless. It might be possible but that in and of itself doesn't mean any of these therapies work to achieve that change.
    "Repubs must not allow [The President] to subvert the Constitution of the US for his own benefit & because he is unable to negotiate w/ Congress," Donald Trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
    While there are thousands and thousands of success stories out there, if just one person (just one) is able to overcome those odds and lead a normal and happy life because of spiritual and/or psychological therapy, then that is proof that homosexuality is a changeable desire and behavior.



    Perhaps in your mind, but you don't speak for others.

    Keep in mind that even if 'success' were what you and the LGBT movement claim it should be, we live in a culture that says change is impossible when it comes to same sex desires (other harmful desires are changeable, but according to the LGBT movement, homosexual desires are not). Encouragement is a huge part of overcoming unwanted desires and behavior, and until society encourages change for those with unwanted same sex desires, the playing field is extremely slanted for the homosexual movement.

    Also keep in mind that those EX homosexuals that have married and fathered or mothered children are told that they're liars and are just putting on a façade.
    Well, no. These "practitioners" claim to be able to help "clients" overcome same sex attractions don't they? The definition of conversion isn't "staying the same" and dealing with things a bit differently. These places proffer services that are aimed at changing the orientation of people from homosexual to heterosexual. Otherwise what?

    So far, there's no conclusive proof that any of this quackery has worked but there sure is plenty as to how it's harmful and useless. Not the least of which being former practitioners of such apologising for such harm and even admitting that they're still gay themselves aka David Matheson.
    Well this is fun isn't it?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    ... The definition of conversion isn't "staying the same" and dealing with things a bit differently.
    you're correct

    the definition of conversion is "converting a person who engages in homo sex into a person who does not engage in homo sex"


    that's not a "bit differently", that's "a huge amount differently"

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    TOL Legend Arthur Brain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    Yes, the same Robert Spitzer who as a psychologist was interested in the truth and whose study showed that SOCE therapy was very successful, not the Robert Spitzer who 9 years later due to ongoing harassment and without a doubt death threats from the ever so tolerant LGBT movement changed his findings.
    He was interested in the truth to be sure and had the courage to denounce such quackery.
    Well this is fun isn't it?


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    LIFETIME MEMBER aCultureWarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgarden View Post
    This Ridiculous New Study Is Still Trying to Prove Conversion Therapy Actually Works
    -Daniel Villarreal
    August 24, 2018

    (1) It’s based on old data from 2011

    (2) its flawed methodology proves nothing
    - each man had been subjected to different types of treatment in different programs, the study doesn’t conclusively prove that SOCEs work

    (3) its two main authors are a non-certified psychologist and a “semi-retired earth scientist”
    -authors Paul Santero and Dolores Ballesteros have psychology doctorates from a Catholic seminary not certified by the accredited American Psychological Association
    - Neil Whitehead, is a self-proclaimed earth scientist with no psychology degree. - sll three have longstanding careers profiting off ex-gay therapy

    (4) it was published in a journal with the goal of upholding the Catholic faith
    - the Linacre Quarterly, a publication owned by the Catholic Medical Association, the stated mission of which is to “uphold the principles of the Catholic faith in the science and practice of medicine” and which considers homosexuality as having “personally disintegrative effects.”

    https://hornet.com/stories/ex-gay-study-catholic/

    https://thinkprogress.org/ex-gay-con...-f4b9278e2c12/
    Here's a picture that was at the top of your article from the first link you provided.



    Your LGBT movement is still pushing the same old scare tactics.
    The very long history of Donald Trump's pro homosexual and transgender activism, before and during his Presidency, can be found on page 141, post # 2113 and #2114.
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336963
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336964

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    Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
    ...Even when it's been proven that change is possible, your LGBT movement continues to deny it, so "harm" is not only expected of those who allegedly fail, it's embraced by your LGBT movement.
    Remember Kit: If it became well known that change is possible, and even likely, then the movement that perpetuated the biggest fraud of the past 50 years would be exposed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kit the Coyote View Post
    There has always been a certain amount of fluidity around the edges of sexual orientation and bisexuals exist. The real question then is the amount of change that is possible and whether or not it can be forced without excessive harm. Which is why it is critical to proving that it is changeable as you say, you have to establish a solid psychological examination of the patient going into the program being studied to have a solid baseline. Something that none of these programs do even the ones being done by supposed licensed professionals. Which again goes back to not doing the hard work, it is not my fault that the people doing studies to prove your point are lazy.
    I would love to see RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act) enforced against your LGBT movement on the issue of Sexual Orientation Change Efforts/SOCE.

    *It could be easily proven that even though your LGBT movement relentlessly pounds it into society (vulnerable children included) that people are born with homosexual desires and gender identity issues, that there is no scientific evidence to prove such, in fact, there is plenty of evidence showing that childhood trauma brings on those issues. That evidence could be backed up by psychologists who have considered themselves LGBT 'friendly' and the many failed studies done by the LGBT movement itself.

    *It could be easily proven that even though your LGBT movement relentlessly pounds it into society (vulnerable children included) that homosexual desires and gender identity issues are not changeable, and in fact have passed laws prohibiting all therapy that deal with the issues, that there are many many people who have overcome those same sex desires and gender identity issues. That evidence could be backed up by psychologist who have considered themselves LGBT 'friendly' and dozens and dozens of studies done over the past 100 years.

    Now comes the 'harm' issue. Those who have been harmed by the bold faced lies that your LGBT movement have been spreading for years could come forward (the parents or loved ones of those, children included, that committed suicide; those who are addicted to drugs and/or alcohol; those who have contracted life threatening diseases due to homosexual behavior; i.e. those whose lives have been destroyed because they were lied to by your LGBT movement and told that they were born that way and that change is not possible)
    and pursue the following:

    Penalties in Criminal Court

    The RICO Act provides both criminal and civil penalties. This means claims can be brought by prosecutors on behalf of the government, or by private individuals. In criminal prosecutions, the jury must be convinced of the defendant's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. This is the highest burden of proof that exists in the American legal system. Violations are punishable by up to 20 years in prison. The sentence can be increased to life in prison if authorized by the underlying crime. Offenders also face a fine of either $250,000, or double the amount of the proceeds earned from the activity.

    As a tool for dismantling criminal enterprises, following a conviction the government is automatically given a forfeiture of all of the defendant's interest in the organization. So not only do defendants lose all their money and property that can be traced back to the criminal conduct, but the organization itself can be severely crippled. And the government need not wait until after a guilty verdict, when the property expected to become subject to forfeiture may be difficult to locate. The rules of procedure in a RICO prosecution allow the government to freeze the defendant's assets before the case even goes to trial.

    Civil Remedies for Victims

    For civil claims brought by private parties who have been victimized by a criminal organization, the burden of proof is less onerous than in criminal court. A preponderance of the evidence standard applies. This means the jury must find that it is at least slightly more likely than not that the racketeering activities did in fact happen as alleged...

    https://www.hg.org/rico-law.html

    Not to worry Kit, that won't happen anytime soon, but I'm again pointing out that there are laws already on the legislative books that aren't being enforced that would destroy your LGBT movement. RICO laws would put hundreds and hundreds of LGBT activists behind bars and even manslaughter charges could be pursued. Civil penalties could bankrupt all LGBT enterprises. Your God-hating, child indoctrinating/molesting, institution destroying LGBT movement would go down in the history books as just another two bit mob organization that had it's heyday before justice finally prevailed.

    … The real question at this point is there any point in even continuing the discussion.
    You keep forgetting Kit; this thread isn't for those that perpetuate evil, it's for those with an ounce of decency in their body who will someday say "Enough is enough!"

    Thanks for helping me pass the message to those good people.


    RICO Act
    The very long history of Donald Trump's pro homosexual and transgender activism, before and during his Presidency, can be found on page 141, post # 2113 and #2114.
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336963
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5336964

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    I would love to see RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act) enforced against your LGBT movement on the issue of Sexual Orientation Change Efforts/SOCE.
    And promptly be laughed out of court.
    "Repubs must not allow [The President] to subvert the Constitution of the US for his own benefit & because he is unable to negotiate w/ Congress," Donald Trump

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