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Thread: Paul: "The Just (Justified) Shall Live By Faith" and not by rules, laws or religion

  1. #91
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilo View Post
    Some white people call themselves black people.
    I do not know the reason.

    I was a Christian, not a Catholic.
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    In beginning He created God the heavens and the earth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    There is no mention of heaven in Hebrews 4:10, nor is there any mention of heaven in the whole 4th chapter. We rest in Christ work and not our own. Those that have not entered into Christ work and rest are the lost, Hebrews 4:3.
    If this is new to you then look at chapter 3 first...He speaks of God's Judgement Day and also the Day of Rest. Chapter 4 follows, but stands alone in this interpretation as well...
    Hebrews 4:8-11:
    For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters Godís rest also rests from their works,just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

    How does Joshua enter the scenario you point out? He doesn't, he cannot. Jacob led Israel to the "Promised Land", Canaan, and the Lord would provide rest...earthly rest...this did not materialize b/c most were disobedient. Hebrews tells us God had far greater plans...Heavenly rest which only He, God, would provide.

    I hope my view is clear enough to be properly understood.
    Again, Joshua was an archtype of Christ and shows us in earthly terms what God will do in spiritual terms.

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    Above, my post *92: 2nd line, 1st word should read Joshua, not Jacob! Sorry!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TestedandTried View Post
    If this is new to you then look at chapter 3 first...He speaks of God's Judgement Day and also the Day of Rest. Chapter 4 follows, but stands alone in this interpretation as well...
    Hebrews 4:8-11:
    For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works,just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

    How does Joshua enter the scenario you point out? He doesn't, he cannot. Jacob led Israel to the "Promised Land", Canaan, and the Lord would provide rest...earthly rest...this did not materialize b/c most were disobedient. Hebrews tells us God had far greater plans...Heavenly rest which only He, God, would provide.

    I hope my view is clear enough to be properly understood.
    Again, Joshua was an archtype of Christ and shows us in earthly terms what God will do in spiritual terms.

    I understand that about Joshua and the promised land.

    That is not what Hebrews 4:10 is about. All that hear the Gospel and cease from their own works and rest in the work of Christ will be saved. Those that continue to trust in their own works and do not enter into Christ rest will perish.

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    Over 5000 post club Nihilo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I do not know the reason.
    Well then you're getting the idea.
    THE LORD JESUS CHRIST IS RISEN. Matthew 28:6 (KJV) Mark 16:6 (KJV) Luke 24:6 (KJV)

    Romans 10:9 (KJV) 1st Corinthians 15:14 (KJV)

    Trevor: "I know how to drive, man."
    Ricky: "You also know how to be stupid."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilo View Post
    Well then you're getting the idea.
    What idea?
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    In beginning He created God the heavens and the earth

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    Over 5000 post club Nihilo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    What idea?
    When a white person identifies as a black person.

    When a Christian identifies as a Jew.
    THE LORD JESUS CHRIST IS RISEN. Matthew 28:6 (KJV) Mark 16:6 (KJV) Luke 24:6 (KJV)

    Romans 10:9 (KJV) 1st Corinthians 15:14 (KJV)

    Trevor: "I know how to drive, man."
    Ricky: "You also know how to be stupid."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilo View Post
    When a white person identifies as a black person.

    When a Christian identifies as a Jew.
    I do not relate to that.
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    In beginning He created God the heavens and the earth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    I understand that about Joshua and the promised land.

    That is not what Hebrews 4:10 is about. All that hear the Gospel and cease from their own works and rest in the work of Christ will be saved. Those that continue to trust in their own works and do not enter into Christ rest will perish.
    Forgive me, but that is a very poor defense of your stand...none at all actually...just restating your understanding.
    How does Joshua bring about a ceasing from works? Why does Scripture put it that way amidst all the surrounding text speaking to Judgement Day?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    There is no mention of heaven in Hebrews 4:10, nor is there any mention of heaven in the whole 4th chapter. We rest in Christ work and not our own. Those that have not entered into Christ work and rest are the lost, Hebrews 4:3.
    http://www.icogsfg.org/fc-heb-4-9.html

    "There remains for the people of Yah a Sabbath keeping"

    Sabbath keeping is a day of rest...the seventh day...not every day...

    "for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works,just as God did from his"

    How did Yah rest? After His work of six days...

    That TGIF feeling is your body telling you to remember the Sabbath day...keep it holy...

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    http://www.icogsfg.org/fc-heb-4-9.html

    "There remains for the people of Yah a Sabbath keeping"

    Sabbath keeping is a day of rest...the seventh day...not every day...

    "for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works,just as God did from his"

    How did Yah rest? After His work of six days...

    That TGIF feeling is your body telling you to remember the Sabbath day...keep it holy...
    God not only rested, but made the day holy...why make it holy due to resting? No, He made it holy in view of the Day of heaven where all are holy with Him in heaven.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    I understand that about Joshua and the promised land.

    That is not what Hebrews 4:10 is about. All that hear the Gospel and cease from their own works and rest in the work of Christ will be saved. Those that continue to trust in their own works and do not enter into Christ rest will perish.

    Hebrews 10:24-25:
    And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, 25 not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

    Notice, the above is another Hebrews passage. Now which Hebrews passage is obsolete, which one do you consider valid, in light of your interpretation of Hebrews 4:10.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TestedandTried View Post
    Hebrews 10:24-25:
    And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, 25 not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

    Notice, the above is another Hebrews passage. Now which Hebrews passage is obsolete, which one do you consider valid, in light of your interpretation of Hebrews 4:10.
    It is only after you have entered into HIS rest that you will be able to live by the Spirit and not the law or religion. In the Gospel we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30. We are perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. We are resting and trusting in what Christ has accomplished on our behalf. Your works will not and cannot save you, simply because God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners, which you are one of. God only accepts the works and the obedience of Jesus Christ. We are accepted only in him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TestedandTried View Post
    God not only rested, but made the day holy...why make it holy due to resting? No, He made it holy in view of the Day of heaven where all are holy with Him in heaven.
    Wait...wut?! Day of heaven???

    He made the seventh day Holy for here on this planet...or does heaven have weekly cycles?

    He made it a Holy time to memorialize the six days of creation just completed He rested from.

    Now why would He need to sanctify it and make it holy? To remind Himself He dun did it? Or for everything else created to remember He did...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    It is only after you have entered into HIS rest that you will be able to live by the Spirit and not the law or religion. In the Gospel we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30. We are perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. We are resting and trusting in what Christ has accomplished on our behalf. Your works will not and cannot save you, simply because God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners, which you are one of. God only accepts the works and the obedience of Jesus Christ. We are accepted only in him.
    Seriously! How many time does this have to be repeated?

    We do works AFTER we have faitH...as faith without works is dead...

    We do works not to become saved but because we already are saved...we do His works...JUST LIKE His...His Way...

    Therefore there remains for His people a Sabbath keeping...

    Here is Paul in a critical meeting:

     Acts 26:19 - "Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision,
    20 - "but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and [then] to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to Elohim, and do works befitting repentance.

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