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Thread: Paul: "The Just (Justified) Shall Live By Faith" and not by rules, laws or religion

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    "Give to him that asks of you and from him that would borrow from you do not turn away" Matthew 5:42.

    I need the two thousand and then I need to borrow your car.
    So I'll guess.....he has no idea what you mean.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    So I'll guess.....he has no idea what you mean.
    Does Pate live in Jacob's neighborhood?

    Deuteronomy 15:7-11English Standard Version (ESV)
    7 “If among you, one of your brothers should become poor, in any of your towns within your land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart or shut your hand against your poor brother, 8 but you shall open your hand to him and lend him sufficient for his need, whatever it may be. 9 Take care lest there be an unworthy thought in your heart and you say, ‘The seventh year, the year of release is near,’ and your eye look grudgingly[a] on your poor brother, and you give him nothing, and he cry to the Lord against you, and you be guilty of sin. 10 You shall give to him freely, and your heart shall not be grudging when you give to him, because for this the Lord your God will bless you in all your work and in all that you undertake. 11 For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, ‘You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land.’

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Mind1Spirit View Post
    Does Pate live in Jacob's neighborhood?

    Deuteronomy 15:7-11English Standard Version (ESV)
    7 “If among you, one of your brothers should become poor, in any of your towns within your land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart or shut your hand against your poor brother, 8 but you shall open your hand to him and lend him sufficient for his need, whatever it may be. 9 Take care lest there be an unworthy thought in your heart and you say, ‘The seventh year, the year of release is near,’ and your eye look grudgingly[a] on your poor brother, and you give him nothing, and he cry to the Lord against you, and you be guilty of sin. 10 You shall give to him freely, and your heart shall not be grudging when you give to him, because for this the Lord your God will bless you in all your work and in all that you undertake. 11 For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, ‘You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land.’
    Don't know, but it looks like Pate knows the law better than Jacob the Jew.

    Matt. 5:41-42 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

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    I forgot. Jacob's on Sabbath. 'Won't hear from them until Sunday. Which is another commonality with law keepers, they're stuck keeping the whole law, and can't even bend it. Even when bending it makes sense to do, they won't bend. It's aggravating, and antisocial.
    THE LORD JESUS CHRIST IS RISEN. Matthew 28:6 (KJV) Mark 16:6 (KJV) Luke 24:6 (KJV)

    Romans 10:9 (KJV) 1st Corinthians 15:14 (KJV)

    Trevor: "I know how to drive, man."
    Ricky: "You also know how to be stupid."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Is Judaism a faith or a religion? Is it something else? I do not know. I have heard both.

    Shalom.

    Jacob
    "Judaism" is most notably characterized as an "anti-Messiah and anti-Deity of Jesus" belief-system.
    You can believe and practice almost anything - except believe in Yeshua Messiah - and still be considered "a Jew".
    Karl Marx was "a Jew". Read what the Talmud has to say about Jesus and where he is right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    If you are living by rules, laws, or religion, you are NOT living by faith. Rules, laws and religion are about you and what you are doing, it is subjective. Those that are living by faith are living by what God has done in his Son Jesus Christ, it is objective (outside of us)

    The object of our faith is always God and his Son Jesus Christ. It is not in ourselves who are sinners. Paul said,

    "We don't preach ourselves, we preach Jesus Christ our Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus sake" 2 Corinthians 4:5.

    There is no power in the law. The law cannot save, nor can the law produce obedience. What the law will do is cause you to sin and become a hypocrite.

    "But sin taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. FOR WITHOUT THE LAW SIN WAS DEAD" Romans 7:8.

    If you are living by laws and rules you are not living according to the Gospel. In the Gospel Jesus fulfills the law for us and then abolishes it.

    "Blotting out (abolishing) the handwriting of the ordinances (the law) that was against us, WHICH WAS CONTRARY TO US and took it out of the way by nailing it to his cross" Colossians 2:14.

    It was contrary to us because no one could keep it or do it. It is not humanly possible to keep or to do the law. The law demands that you love your neighbor as yourself, Leviticus 19:18. This means that you should sell all that you have and give it to the poor, Matthew 19:21. The rich young ruler failed there and you will also fail there. To say that you are keeping the law when you are not, is to make yourself a hypocrite.

    Christians are not called to live by rules and laws, we are called to live by the Spirit of Jesus Christ. To be led by the Spirit is to be led by the Gospel. The Gospel is the means by which we have been justified. Jesus, in our name and on our behalf, justifies us, Romans 3:26. Jesus in our name and on our behalf offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law. It is this life and not our life that God accepts for our justification and salvation. God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners. God only accepts the works and the obedience of Jesus Christ. This is why Paul said,

    "That I might be found in him, NOT HAVING MY OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF THE LAW, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness WHICH IS OF GOD BY FAITH" Philippians 3:9.

    There it is. Righteousness is not of the law. What the law does is it reveals sin, "For by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.and not righteousness. You should know that you cannot do or keep the law because the law is telling you that you are a sinner. To live thinking that you are keeping the law is to live as a hypocrite.
    You teach against Paul and Myself saying that sinners Christ died for, and made just/righteous Rom 5:19 still die in unbelief and condemned !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    If you are living by rules, laws, or religion, you are NOT living by faith. Rules, laws and religion are about you and what you are doing, it is subjective. Those that are living by faith are living by what God has done in his Son Jesus Christ, it is objective (outside of us)

    The object of our faith is always God and his Son Jesus Christ. It is not in ourselves who are sinners. Paul said,

    "We don't preach ourselves, we preach Jesus Christ our Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus sake" 2 Corinthians 4:5.

    There is no power in the law. The law cannot save, nor can the law produce obedience. What the law will do is cause you to sin and become a hypocrite.

    "But sin taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. FOR WITHOUT THE LAW SIN WAS DEAD" Romans 7:8.

    If you are living by laws and rules you are not living according to the Gospel. In the Gospel Jesus fulfills the law for us and then abolishes it.

    "Blotting out (abolishing) the handwriting of the ordinances (the law) that was against us, WHICH WAS CONTRARY TO US and took it out of the way by nailing it to his cross" Colossians 2:14.

    It was contrary to us because no one could keep it or do it. It is not humanly possible to keep or to do the law. The law demands that you love your neighbor as yourself, Leviticus 19:18. This means that you should sell all that you have and give it to the poor, Matthew 19:21. The rich young ruler failed there and you will also fail there. To say that you are keeping the law when you are not, is to make yourself a hypocrite.

    Christians are not called to live by rules and laws, we are called to live by the Spirit of Jesus Christ. To be led by the Spirit is to be led by the Gospel. The Gospel is the means by which we have been justified. Jesus, in our name and on our behalf, justifies us, Romans 3:26. Jesus in our name and on our behalf offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law. It is this life and not our life that God accepts for our justification and salvation. God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners. God only accepts the works and the obedience of Jesus Christ. This is why Paul said,

    "That I might be found in him, NOT HAVING MY OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF THE LAW, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness WHICH IS OF GOD BY FAITH" Philippians 3:9.

    There it is. Righteousness is not of the law. What the law does is it reveals sin, "For by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.and not righteousness. You should know that you cannot do or keep the law because the law is telling you that you are a sinner. To live thinking that you are keeping the law is to live as a hypocrite.
    You keep trying...and on different threads...shows the Spirit is pricking you...stop kicking against the goads...

    Answer me this;

    What did Adam do to become created?

    Is the same thing we do to be saved....



    But what did Adam do to stay alive and then for eternity?

    Same thing we must do...



    Believe then obey...

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    You keep trying...and on different threads...shows the Spirit is pricking you...stop kicking against the goads...

    Answer me this;

    What did Adam do to become created?

    Is the same thing we do to be saved....



    But what did Adam do to stay alive and then for eternity?

    Same thing we must do...



    Believe then obey...

    There is nothing in the Bible that indicates Adam repented of his sin against God. We don't know that Adam received eternal life.

    Christians that know and understand the Gospel do not place a lot of emphasis on their obedience. There are several reasons for that.

    1. Christ is their righteousness, not the law or their obedience.

    2. They live by faith and not by laws and rules.

    3. They see themselves as being "In Christ". Perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

  12. #54
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    Lightbulb Adam Was Saved

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    There is nothing in the Bible that indicates Adam repented of his sin against God. We don't know that Adam received eternal life.
    Depends upon how carefully you read Scripture, Robert.

    The fact that Adam and Eve named their son Seth is clear enough that they were trusting in the promise of Gen 3:15.

    Abel and Seth knew the proper way to worship the Lord. From whom did they learn this?

    God make coats of skins, and clothed Adam and Eve (Gen. 3:21). This verse gives us a typical picture of a sinner’s salvation. It was the first Gospel sermon, preached by God Himself, not in words but in symbol and action. It was a setting forth of the way by which a sinful creature could return unto and approach his holy Creator. It was the initial declaration of the fundamental fact that "without shedding of blood is no remission." It was a blessed illustration of substitution—the innocent dying in the stead of the guilty.

    Adam and Eve also had continued belief and faith in God, Gen 4:1 "I have gotten the man child with the help of the LORD", Gen 4:25 "God has appointed me another offspring". God was continually in their lives, they recognized the blessings of a child as from God. Something only a believer will do, at least in the true sense.

    When the text reads:

    Gen. 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again, and she bore a son and named him Seth, ...
    Gen. 5:4 After he begot Seth, the days of Adam were ...

    I am inclined to read into Adam's marital relations, coming as they did on the heels of Cain's attack on the human race,
    1) intent to conceive
    2) an act of faith.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    Depends upon how carefully you read Scripture, Robert.

    The fact that Adam and Eve named their son Seth is clear enough that they were trusting in the promise of Gen 3:15.

    Abel and Seth knew the proper way to worship the Lord. From whom did they learn this?

    God make coats of skins, and clothed Adam and Eve (Gen. 3:21). This verse gives us a typical picture of a sinner’s salvation. It was the first Gospel sermon, preached by God Himself, not in words but in symbol and action. It was a setting forth of the way by which a sinful creature could return unto and approach his holy Creator. It was the initial declaration of the fundamental fact that "without shedding of blood is no remission." It was a blessed illustration of substitution—the innocent dying in the stead of the guilty.

    Adam and Eve also had continued belief and faith in God, Gen 4:1 "I have gotten the man child with the help of the LORD", Gen 4:25 "God has appointed me another offspring". God was continually in their lives, they recognized the blessings of a child as from God. Something only a believer will do, at least in the true sense.

    When the text reads:

    Gen. 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again, and she bore a son and named him Seth, ...
    Gen. 5:4 After he begot Seth, the days of Adam were ...

    I am inclined to read into Adam's marital relations, coming as they did on the heels of Cain's attack on the human race,
    1) intent to conceive
    2) an act of faith.

    AMR
    There is no scripture that says Adam repented.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    There is no scripture that says Adam repented.
    Lol...the irony...

    Why should he repent? when the law was not yet even established (to be made void again)

    Obviously Adam of all humans just had to believe and do without rules or silly laws...none were given right?

    Why repent? No need to obey...just believe

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    Lol...the irony...

    Why should he repent? when the law was not yet even established (to be made void again)

    Obviously Adam of all humans just had to believe and do without rules or silly laws...none were given right?

    Why repent? No need to obey...just believe

    God gave the law. "Don't eat of the tree" Anything that tells us to do something or not to do something is law.

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    clefty

    Why should he repent? when the law was not yet even established (to be made void again)
    If the law was not yet established, how did adam sin, transgress ? The scripture speaks of adams transgression Rom 5:14

    Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.


    Now sin is the transgression of the law 1 Jn 3:4

    Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    Adam sinned Rom 5:12

    12 Wherefore,
    as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

    Please explain to me how adam was able to sin/transgress when there was no law ?
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    God gave the law. "Don't eat of the tree" Anything that tells us to do something or not to do something is law.
    No no...its all under grace...we can do ANYTHING when we are in Him right? Or?

    No need for rules and laws...just believe...have faith...

    No rules no laws...they were abolished right?...right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    clefty



    If the law was not yet established, how did adam sin, transgress ? The scripture speaks of adams transgression Rom 5:14

    [FONT="]Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's [/FONT]transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.


    Now sin is the transgression of the law 1 Jn 3:4

    Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    Adam sinned Rom 5:12

    12 Wherefore,
    as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

    Please explain to me how adam was able to sin/transgress when there was no law ?
    Explain? Easy peasy...I was being sarcastic...

    There was always Law...His is eternal forward and back...but some wish it to not be so but have it abolished and no longer binding...

    They claim its no rules no laws...just believe/have faith...

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