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Thread: Paul: "The Just (Justified) Shall Live By Faith" and not by rules, laws or religion

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    Paul: "The Just (Justified) Shall Live By Faith" and not by rules, laws or religion

    If you are living by rules, laws, or religion, you are NOT living by faith. Rules, laws and religion are about you and what you are doing, it is subjective. Those that are living by faith are living by what God has done in his Son Jesus Christ, it is objective (outside of us)

    The object of our faith is always God and his Son Jesus Christ. It is not in ourselves who are sinners. Paul said,

    "We don't preach ourselves, we preach Jesus Christ our Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus sake" 2 Corinthians 4:5.

    There is no power in the law. The law cannot save, nor can the law produce obedience. What the law will do is cause you to sin and become a hypocrite.

    "But sin taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. FOR WITHOUT THE LAW SIN WAS DEAD" Romans 7:8.

    If you are living by laws and rules you are not living according to the Gospel. In the Gospel Jesus fulfills the law for us and then abolishes it.

    "Blotting out (abolishing) the handwriting of the ordinances (the law) that was against us, WHICH WAS CONTRARY TO US and took it out of the way by nailing it to his cross" Colossians 2:14.

    It was contrary to us because no one could keep it or do it. It is not humanly possible to keep or to do the law. The law demands that you love your neighbor as yourself, Leviticus 19:18. This means that you should sell all that you have and give it to the poor, Matthew 19:21. The rich young ruler failed there and you will also fail there. To say that you are keeping the law when you are not, is to make yourself a hypocrite.

    Christians are not called to live by rules and laws, we are called to live by the Spirit of Jesus Christ. To be led by the Spirit is to be led by the Gospel. The Gospel is the means by which we have been justified. Jesus, in our name and on our behalf, justifies us, Romans 3:26. Jesus in our name and on our behalf offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law. It is this life and not our life that God accepts for our justification and salvation. God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners. God only accepts the works and the obedience of Jesus Christ. This is why Paul said,

    "That I might be found in him, NOT HAVING MY OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF THE LAW, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness WHICH IS OF GOD BY FAITH" Philippians 3:9.

    There it is. Righteousness is not of the law. What the law does is it reveals sin, "For by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.and not righteousness. You should know that you cannot do or keep the law because the law is telling you that you are a sinner. To live thinking that you are keeping the law is to live as a hypocrite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    If you are living by rules, laws, or religion, you are NOT living by faith. Rules, laws and religion are about you and what you are doing, it is subjective. Those that are living by faith are living by what God has done in his Son Jesus Christ, it is objective (outside of us)

    The object of our faith is always God and his Son Jesus Christ. It is not in ourselves who are sinners. Paul said,

    "We don't preach ourselves, we preach Jesus Christ our Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus sake" 2 Corinthians 4:5.
    There is no power in the law. The law cannot save, nor can the law produce obedience. What the law will do is cause you to sin and become a hypocrite.

    "But sin taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. FOR WITHOUT THE LAW SIN WAS DEAD" Romans 7:8.

    If you are living by laws and rules you are not living according to the Gospel. In the Gospel Jesus fulfills the law for us and then abolishes it.

    "Blotting out (abolishing) the handwriting of the ordinances (the law) that was against us, WHICH WAS CONTRARY TO US and took it out of the way by nailing it to his cross" Colossians 2:14.


    It was contrary to us because no one could keep it or do it. It is not humanly possible to keep or to do the law. The law demands that you love your neighbor as yourself, Leviticus 19:18. This means that you should sell all that you have and give it to the poor, Matthew 19:21. The rich young ruler failed there and you will also fail there. To say that you are keeping the law when you are not, is to make yourself a hypocrite.

    Christians are not called to live by rules and laws, we are called to live by the Spirit of Jesus Christ. To be led by the Spirit is to be led by the Gospel. The Gospel is the means by which we have been justified. Jesus, in our name and on our behalf, justifies us, Romans 3:26. Jesus in our name and on our behalf offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his Holy Law. It is this life and not our life that God accepts for our justification and salvation. God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners. God only accepts the works and the obedience of Jesus Christ. This is why Paul said,

    "That I might be found in him, NOT HAVING MY OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF THE LAW, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness WHICH IS OF GOD BY FAITH" Philippians 3:9.

    There it is. Righteousness is not of the law. What the law does is it reveals sin, "For by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.and not righteousness. You should know that you cannot do or keep the law because the law is telling you that you are a sinner. To live thinking that you are keeping the law is to live as a hypocrite.
    I am a Jew. The New Covenant is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It is God's law written on minds and hearts.

    To believe that you are keeping the law is different from pretending that you are or saying that you are when you are not.

    I read, study, observe, keep, and teach the Law, Torah. Jesus observed and taught the Law. I do as well. I have accepted His instruction to keep and teach the commandments, as for me.

    Shalom.

    Jacob
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    In beginning He created God the heavens and the earth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I am a Jew. The New Covenant is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It is God's law written on minds and hearts.

    To believe that you are keeping the law is different from pretending that you are or saying that you are when you are not.

    I read, study, observe, keep, and teach the Law, Torah. Jesus observed and taught the Law. I do as well. I have accepted His instruction to keep and teach the commandments, as for me.

    Shalom.

    Jacob

    Your religion is obsolete, decaying, waxing old and is passing away, Hebrews 8:13.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Your religion is obsolete, decaying, waxing old and is passing away, Hebrews 8:13.
    Not if religion is God's law. The new covenant is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It is God's law written on minds and hearts. Have you considered this in your thinking? I do not believe that God's Law is religion. I see nothing wrong with the proper use of the term religion. Religion, or works, do not bring about salvation. Religion, serving others, your practice, what you do, is important to God.
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    In beginning He created God the heavens and the earth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Not if religion is God's law. The new covenant is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It is God's law written on minds and hearts. Have you considered this in your thinking? I do not believe that God's Law is religion. I see nothing wrong with the proper use of the term religion. Religion, or works, do not bring about salvation. Religion, serving others, your practice, what you do, is important to God.

    Jacob, you never have scripture that supports your beliefs.

    The words "Law" and "religion" mean the same thing. When you are doing the law, you are doing religion.

    The Jewish religion has been abolished by Jesus Christ. The new way to live is not by the law. The new way to live is by the Spirit of Jesus, which is much higher and much better, Hebrews 8:6. The New Covenant is not more rules and laws. The new Covenant is Jesus himself. Jesus is the savior and redeemer of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. Jesus is the one that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5. Jesus is the one that reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. In Jesus Christ we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we can stand in God's holy court complete in him, Colossians 2:10.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Jacob, you never have scripture that supports your beliefs.

    The words "Law" and "religion" mean the same thing. When you are doing the law, you are doing religion.

    The Jewish religion has been abolished by Jesus Christ. The new way to live is not by the law. The new way to live is by the Spirit of Jesus, which is much higher and much better, Hebrews 8:6. The New Covenant is not more rules and laws. The new Covenant is Jesus himself. Jesus is the savior and redeemer of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. Jesus is the one that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5. Jesus is the one that reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. In Jesus Christ we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we can stand in God's holy court complete in him, Colossians 2:10.
    Both the words Law and religion are found in the Bible. There is also God's Law and man's religion. Which would you rather have? Must you have one or the other? If you say God's Law is that proof that God's Law still exists?

    Saying I never have scripture that supports my beliefs is not true. If you do not know about serving others being the definition of religion from the Bible, then you do not know what I am referring to. I believe that people have said this.

    My question for you is if the new covenant has any law associated with it. The new covenant is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It is God's law written on minds and hearts. If you do not know about God's Law how can you know about God's law written on minds and hearts? If you do know about it, what are you thinking of God's law if you believe that the new covenant does not involve God's law? Do you understand that you are speaking of the new covenant but you are speaking against God's law? Can you quote here from Jeremiah about the new covenant? If you can't, would you accept it if I do?

    Shalom.

    Jacob
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    In beginning He created God the heavens and the earth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Both the words Law and religion are found in the Bible. There is also God's Law and man's religion. Which would you rather have? Must you have one or the other? If you say God's Law is that proof that God's Law still exists?

    Saying I never have scripture that supports my beliefs is not true. If you do not know about serving others being the definition of religion from the Bible, then you do not know what I am referring to. I believe that people have said this.

    My question for you is if the new covenant has any law associated with it. The new covenant is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It is God's law written on minds and hearts. If you do not know about God's Law how can you know about God's law written on minds and hearts? If you do know about it, what are you thinking of God's law if you believe that the new covenant does not involve God's law? Do you understand that you are speaking of the new covenant but you are speaking against God's law? Can you quote here from Jeremiah about the new covenant? If you can't, would you accept it if I do?

    Shalom.

    Jacob

    The New Covenant is for Christians, both Jew and Gentile.

    There are no rules or laws in the New Covenant.

    In the New Covenant "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17, faith in Jesus Christ.

    Living by faith means to live according to the Gospel. In the Gospel Jesus justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

    We stand before God as perfect and complete in Jesus Christ, Colossians 2:10. Jesus does for us what the law could never do. He perfects us by doing for us that which we cannot do for ourselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    The New Covenant is for Christians, both Jew and Gentile.

    There are no rules or laws in the New Covenant.

    In the New Covenant "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17, faith in Jesus Christ.

    Living by faith means to live according to the Gospel. In the Gospel Jesus justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

    We stand before God as perfect and complete in Jesus Christ, Colossians 2:10. Jesus does for us what the law could never do. He perfects us by doing for us that which we cannot do for ourselves.
    Jeremiah 31:31-34 NKJV - 31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- 32 "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. 33 "But this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 "No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    In beginning He created God the heavens and the earth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Jeremiah 31:31-34 NKJV - 31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- 32 "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. 33 "But this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 "No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."

    Jeremiah was speaking about the Holy Spirit that indwells Christians. It is the Spirit of Jesus and not the letter of the law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Jeremiah was speaking about the Holy Spirit that indwells Christians. It is the Spirit of Jesus and not the letter of the law.
    Is the law of Christ the rule of Christ?

    What is God's law?

    What is the Law of God? What is God's Law?

    Are you confused about God's law because of the law of Christ?

    Are you saying that the Holy Spirit that indwells Christians (you say that this is what Jeremiah was speaking about) is God's law? Are you saying that God's law is only for the house of Israel and the house of Judah?

    Shalom.

    Jacob
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    In beginning He created God the heavens and the earth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Is the law of Christ the rule of Christ?

    What is God's law?

    What is the Law of God? What is God's Law?

    Are you confused about God's law because of the law of Christ?

    Are you saying that the Holy Spirit that indwells Christians (you say that this is what Jeremiah was speaking about) is God's law? Are you saying that God's law is only for the house of Israel and the house of Judah?

    Shalom.

    Jacob

    We only have the "First Fruits" or the down payment of the Holy Spirit, Romans 8:23. This is why we are sinners. The law is the nature and character of God. Sin is the transgression of God's nature and character. This is why Paul said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    We only have the "First Fruits" or the down payment of the Holy Spirit, Romans 8:23. This is why we are sinners. The law is the nature and character of God. Sin is the transgression of God's nature and character. This is why Paul said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10.
    There is no excuse for being a sinner. Being a sinner does not excuse you from God's Holy, Right, and Just Judgment. The Holy Spirit is not why you are a sinner. Are you saying that you are still a sinner because you only have the "First Fruits" of the Spirit? I do not see this as a down payment nor do I know that you know what a down payment is. You say that sin is a transgression of God's nature and character. The Bible says that sin is the transgression of the law.

    transgression law

    Romans 4:15 NKJV - because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law [there is] no transgression.

    1 John 3:4 KJV - Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    1 John 3:4 NKJV - Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    In beginning He created God the heavens and the earth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    There is no excuse for being a sinner. Being a sinner does not excuse you from God's Holy, Right, and Just Judgment. The Holy Spirit is not why you are a sinner. Are you saying that you are still a sinner because you only have the "First Fruits" of the Spirit? I do not see this as a down payment nor do I know that you know what a down payment is. You say that sin is a transgression of God's nature and character. The Bible says that sin is the transgression of the law.

    transgression law

    Romans 4:15 NKJV - because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law [there is] no transgression.

    1 John 3:4 KJV - Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    1 John 3:4 NKJV - Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

    You are not a sinner by choice, Romans 5:12. God's law is the nature and character of God. Are you as righteous as God? If not then you are a sinner, just like Paul said that you were, Romans 3:23.

    Romans 4:15 is good scripture and a good reason not to be under the law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    You are not a sinner by choice, Romans 5:12. God's law is the nature and character of God. Are you as righteous as God? If not then you are a sinner, just like Paul said that you were, Romans 3:23.

    Romans 4:15 is good scripture and a good reason not to be under the law.
    Romans 5:12 says because all sinned. Sin is a choice. Who sinned? All. Each and every person. The only exception is Jesus Christ.

    You are not giving a valid interpretation of Romans 4:15.

    Romans 3:23 says that all have sinned.
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    In beginning He created God the heavens and the earth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Romans 5:12 says because all sinned. Sin is a choice. Who sinned? All. Each and every person. The only exception is Jesus Christ.

    You are not giving a valid interpretation of Romans 4:15.

    Romans 3:23 says that all have sinned.

    The law brings WRATH, Romans 4:15. Why in the world do you want to be under the law?

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