Jesus, Paul and the Law

[clefty]

If they fall away after professing Christ as their savior, they never did believe in the first place. They were counterfeits.

So the Spirit did not guide them when they claimed it did? Of the Spirit did not know they were fake?

Hmmm...hard to tell who is real without fruits...

Counterfeits are judged by a standard yes? The True...and these are known how in your “do what thou whilst lawlessness”?

I mean anyone can claim “I am in Christ” as easily as satan believes He is indeed the Saviour...

[clefty]

So you're saying Paul was wrong? We were not made free from sin, and made servants of righteousness?

Was Christ wrong, when He said we are made free from sin?

Christ didnt say that...He said go and sin no more...which is NOT a prophetic statement of what was to occur but that she not choose to keep doing it...

We are free from the consequences of sin...eternal death...not free from the law which point sin out

[TheThirdAngel144]

Christ didnt say that...He said go and sin no more...which is NOT a prophetic statement of what was to occur but that she not choose to keep doing it...

We are free from the consequences of sin...eternal death...not free from the law which point sin out

So the adulterer can stop committing adultery, but I can't stop lying through Christ? Or stealing? Or hating people?

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[Robert Pate]

So the Spirit did not guide them when they claimed it did? Of the Spirit did not know they were fake?

Hmmm...hard to tell who is real without fruits...

Counterfeits are judged by a standard yes? The True...and these are known how in your “do what thou whilst lawlessness”?

I mean anyone can claim “I am in Christ” as easily as satan believes He is indeed the Saviour...

Here is a hint as to who is "In Christ" John 16:13,14. They are Gospel focused and believe that they are justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

[clefty]

So the adulterer can stop committing adultery, but I can't stop lying through Christ? Or stealing? Or hating people?

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Sure you can...and when you fail...repent wash and repeat...

It’s like a father watching his son walk around with his shoes and tie trying to be like “daddy”...

He knows full well the kid cant do it...but he is pleased and warmed knowing the heart of his son wants to like “daddy”...

[TheThirdAngel144]

Sure you can...and when you fail...repent wash and repeat...

Its like a father watching his son walk around with his shoes and tie trying to be like “daddy”...

He knows full well the kid cant do it but he is pleased and warmed knowing the heart of his son wants to like “daddy”...

Doesn't the son eventually learn to walk, and to tie his shoes? Won't the children of Christ eventually learn not to commit sin?

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[TheThirdAngel144]

Sure you can...and when you fail...repent wash and repeat...

It’s like a father watching his son walk around with his shoes and tie trying to be like “daddy”...

He knows full well the kid cant do it...but he is pleased and warmed knowing the heart of his son wants to like “daddy”...

I didnt fully understand that message when I read it, hence my response. Apologies. And apologies again, because we might be on the same side here.

But you bring up a good point. If the adulterer can go and not commit adultery anymore, can't all Christians learn not to sin anymore? And if anyone wants to say no, I have to ask, why not?

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[clefty]

Here is a hint as to who is "In Christ" John 16:13,14. They are Gospel focused and believe that they are justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

“The Spirit will guide you into all truth”...so you mean He will take you outside His law?...away from His Way...? What guide leads against the map He drew?

Notice it is NOT “He will guide you to THE truth” but ALL truth...

Thus it remains...if you love me keep My commandments...same truth same law...same house...

Or mean to say the house is divided?

[Robert Pate]

Christians that understand the Gospel are not concerned about law and sin. They understand that God sees them as perfect and complete "In Christ". You will never be able to live the Christian life until you are free from the law. The law will cause you to sin, Romans 7:7-12. The more you try to keep the law the more you will sin.

[clefty]

I didnt fully understand that message when I read it, hence my response. Apologies. And apologies again, because we might be on the same side here.

But you bring up a good point. If the adulterer can go and not commit adultery anymore, can't all Christians learn not to sin anymore? And if anyone wants to say no, I have to ask, why not?

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Never perfect but just to be more like Him less than our former selves...I keep referring to the fact that all this was meant to teach us how the Saved are restored to a state BEFORE Sin...so well...we are just practicing to get to our default life before this detour of sin...only if to get used to it...because soon enough it will be as we pray...on earth as it is in heaven...again

[TheThirdAngel144]

Christians that understand the Gospel are not concerned about law and sin. They understand that God sees them as perfect and complete "In Christ". You will never be able to live the Christian life until you are free from the law. The law will cause you to sin, Romans 7:7-12. The more you try to keep the law the more you will sin.

So the more I try to refrain from physically committing adultery, the more I will commit adultery? The more I try to refrain from physically killing someone, the more people I will kill?

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[Robert Pate]

So the more I try to refrain from physically committing adultery, the more I will commit adultery? The more I try to refrain from physically killing someone, the more people I will kill?

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You got it. That is exactly what Paul is saying and is probably why there is a million men in prison. The law does not keep people from sinning. The only thing that keeps people from sinning is the consequences of breaking the law.

[clefty]

Christians that understand the Gospel are not concerned about law and sin. They understand that God sees them as perfect and complete "In Christ". You will never be able to live the Christian life until you are free from the law. The law will cause you to sin, Romans 7:7-12. The more you try to keep the law the more you will sin.

Aaaawwww man it’z da stoopid doctor’s fault I have diabetes...lol


Paul is clear the law is is holy and the commandment holy and just and good...I delight in the law of God according to the inward man...I thank God with the mind I myself serve the law of God...but with the flesh the law of sin...

Hmmmm...looks like there remains Law

[clefty]

You got it. That is exactly what Paul is saying and is probably why there is a million men in prison. The law does not keep people from sinning. The only thing that keeps people from sinning is the consequences of breaking the law.

The only thing that keeps people from sinning is HIM...the Spirit helping us discipline ourselves, learn, practice, train to follow Him His Way...

You missed even that?

The consequences of breaking the law PROVE it remains and is death...prison is to restrict the impact of the lawbreaker...

[Robert Pate]

Aaaawwww man it’z da stoopid doctor’s fault I have diabetes...lol


Paul is clear the law is is holy and the commandment holy and just and good...I delight in the law of God according to the inward man...I thank God with the mind I myself serve the law of God...but with the flesh the law of sin...

Hmmmm...looks like there remains Law

The law is holy just and good because it reveals the nature and character of God. The inward man knows that he is perfect and complete "in Christ" and is free from the law.