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Thread: Jesus, Paul and the Law

  1. #241
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    While God sees us as perfect in Christ, you must actually walk in Christ, to be seen so. Christ kept that law, so for us to walk in disobedience to that law, yet claim to be "in Christ" is a deception.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    do as those who sit in Moses’ seat...NOT AS THEY DO...that is quite different than “Dont worry about what those in moses’ seat teach I have come to fulfill the law so you dont have to”

    the ordinances are against you coming at you like a military ordnance...they are the curses and penalties...there is traffic law and then the ticket for breaking it...the ticket is the ordnance shot at you...that was nailed to the cross paid for...the curse done away with...NOT the Law...think NOT that I have come to abolish...but to fulfill...and once fulfilled the standard is affirmed...He is our example

    more specifically they were breaking laws and rules...NOTHING there about “just believe and be as you were”..

    if you are then you would demonstrate it and teach others to by living and loving JUST AS He did...His Way and His faith...

    You would be different than you were...not of the world but set apart...circumcised in the heart because of faith into obedience...

    Again, you give no credit to the Holy Spirit that seals the Christian and places him "In Christ" Ephesians 1:13. For you it is law, law, law. I am not under the law, nor am I subject to it. You are. Paul said that the law is for these people, The lawless, The disobedient, The ungodly, Sinners, The unholy, The profane, Murderers, Manslayers, Whoremongers, Homosexuals, Men stealers, Liars, Perjured persons, 1 Timothy 1:9, 10. If you are one of those then the law is for you, But the law is not for Christians.

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  4. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheThirdAngel144 View Post
    While God sees us as perfect in Christ, you must actually walk in Christ, to be seen so. Christ kept that law, so for us to walk in disobedience to that law, yet claim to be "in Christ" is a deception.
    You don't understand what it means to be "In Christ". To say that you have to walk in Christ is an impossibility and will cause you to live a life of legalism. I am a sinner (saved sinner) saved by grace. So was Paul, 1 Timothy 1:15.

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  6. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Again, you give no credit to the Holy Spirit that seals the Christian and places him "In Christ" Ephesians 1:13.
    full credit to Him for sealing me...is why I work as I do I want to because I am His...to do His way His Faith as He commanded we do...to follow Him His Way do as He did keep my commandments

    For you it is law, law, law. I am not under the law, nor am I subject to it. You are.
    nope I am not subject to it...Iwant His yoke to do His work...I am His not my own...and His I am free of the curse of the Law not free of the Law


    Paul said that the law is for these people, The lawless, The disobedient, The ungodly, Sinners, The unholy, The profane, Murderers, Manslayers, Whoremongers, Homosexuals, Men stealers, Liars, Perjured persons, 1 Timothy 1:9, 10. If you are one of those then the law is for you,
    oh good...you had said it was abolished but suddenly you need it...good to see it remains

    But the law is not for Christians.
    unless they disobey which puts them on the previous list...your name removed from the book of life

  7. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    full credit to Him for sealing me...is why I work as I do I want to because I am His...to do His way His Faith as He commanded we do...to follow Him His Way do as He did keep my commandments

    nope I am not subject to it...Iwant His yoke to do His work...I am His not my own...and His I am free of the curse of the Law not free of the Law


    oh good...you had said it was abolished but suddenly you need it...good to see it remains

    unless they disobey which puts them on the previous list...your name removed from the book of life

    When a sinner comes to Christ to be saved by him God seals him with the Holy Spirit and places him "In Christ". There is no unsealing. Once sealed always sealed. There is nothing that can separate the love of God from the Christian, not even sin.

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  9. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    When a sinner comes to Christ to be saved by him God seals him with the Holy Spirit and places him "In Christ". There is no unsealing. Once sealed always sealed. There is nothing that can separate the love of God from the Christian, not even sin.
    For Yah so loved the world...didn’t save all of it...some rejected it right away...some didn’t finish the race...did not persevere...ask Paul and Peter about falling back to previous ways...or going back to vomit...

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    For Yah so loved the world...didn’t save all of it...some rejected it right away...some didn’t finish the race...did not persevere...ask Paul and Peter about falling back to previous ways...or going back to vomit...
    If they fall away after professing Christ as their savior, they never did believe in the first place. They were counterfeits.

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  12. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    You don't understand what it means to be "In Christ". To say that you have to walk in Christ is an impossibility and will cause you to live a life of legalism. I am a sinner (saved sinner) saved by grace. So was Paul, 1 Timothy 1:15.
    You can't be "in Christ" when you don't have the mind of Christ. Christ's mind strove to obey God's law. Only the carnal mind is at war with the law, not the spiritual mind.

    Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

    The spiritual mind is subject to the law of God. If you are warring against God's law, which Christ was subject too, and we would be subject too if we have the mind of Christ, then you are not "in Christ".

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheThirdAngel144 View Post
    You can't be "in Christ" when you don't have the mind of Christ. Christ's mind strove to obey God's law. Only the carnal mind is at war with the law, not the spiritual mind.

    Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

    The spiritual mind is subject to the law of God. If you are warring against God's law, which Christ was subject too, and we would be subject too if we have the mind of Christ, then you are not "in Christ".

    Romans 8:7 is a description of an unsaved person.

    "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace, Romans 8:6."

    You cannot be subject to the law and have peace. The law demands that you be perfect. Are you perfect? No, you are not perfect because you are a sinner.

    Being a sinner and being subject to the law will produce one big hypocrite.

  14. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Romans 8:7 is a description of an unsaved person.

    "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace, Romans 8:6."

    You cannot be subject to the law and have peace. The law demands that you be perfect. Are you perfect? No, you are not perfect because you are a sinner.

    Being a sinner and being subject to the law will produce one big hypocrite.
    Only those who know Christ can keep God's law, not those who do not know Christ. Christ frees us from sin. If you cannot keep the law, it is because you do not know Christ.

    John 8:34&36 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

    Romans 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

    Psalms 119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

    If the carnal mind is not subject to the law of God, then the spiritual mind is subject to the law of God. If the spiritual mind is subject, and loves the law of God, then the spiritual mind will have peace.

    If you hate the law of God, you are carnally minded. Only those who are making themselves pure as Christ is pure are those who are true Christians.

    1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheThirdAngel144 View Post
    Only those who know Christ can keep God's law, not those who do not know Christ. Christ frees us from sin. If you cannot keep the law, it is because you do not know Christ.

    John 8:34&36 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

    Romans 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

    Psalms 119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

    If the carnal mind is not subject to the law of God, then the spiritual mind is subject to the law of God. If the spiritual mind is subject, and loves the law of God, then the spiritual mind will have peace.

    If you hate the law of God, you are carnally minded. Only those who are making themselves pure as Christ is pure are those who are true Christians.

    1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

    The only one that kept God's law was Jesus Christ. Everyone else fails, Romans 3:23. Jesus kept and fulfilled the law for us. After he fulfilled it he abolished it, Ephesians 2:15. The law has been replaced by the Holy Spirit. We are now called to live by the Spirit and not the law. "The letter (law) kills but the Spirit gives life" 2 Corinthians 3:6.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    The only one that kept God's law was Jesus Christ. Everyone else fails, Romans 3:23. Jesus kept and fulfilled the law for us. After he fulfilled it he abolished it, Ephesians 2:15. The law has been replaced by the Holy Spirit. We are now called to live by the Spirit and not the law. "The letter (law) kills but the Spirit gives life" 2 Corinthians 3:6.
    So you're saying Paul was wrong? We were not made free from sin, and made servants of righteousness?

    Was Christ wrong, when He said we are made free from sin?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheThirdAngel144 View Post
    So you're saying Paul was wrong? We were not made free from sin, and made servants of righteousness?

    Was Christ wrong, when He said we are made free from sin?
    No, Jesus and Paul are not wrong. You and your holiness doctrine are wrong.

    Spiritually, we are perfect and complete "In Christ". Physically, we are "The Chief of Sinners".

    We are born sinners, Psalm 51:5. We live our lives before God as sinners and we die as sinners.

    Jesus Christ as our representative and new Adam has justified us, sanctified us and has reconciled us to God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. We are complete in Jesus Christ, Colossians 2:10.

  18. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Many believe that there is a conflict between what Jesus taught and what Paul taught concerning the law. There is no conflict.
    There most certainly is a difference between knowing the Lord after the flesh (Matthew 5:20 KJV, Matthew 23:1-3 KJV) and that of the risen, ascended, glorified Lord Jesus Christ's revelations to and through Paul in the but now (Romans 3:21-22 KJV, Romans 10:4 KJV).
    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

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  20. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by heir View Post
    There most certainly is a difference between knowing the Lord after the flesh (Matthew 5:20 KJV, Matthew 23:1-3 KJV) and that of the risen, ascended, glorified Lord Jesus Christ's revelations to and through Paul in the but now (Romans 3:21-22 KJV, Romans 10:4 KJV).
    I agree. There are two kinds of righteousness. The righteousness of man and the righteousness of God. Most religious people have the righteousness of man, Romans 10:3.

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