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Thread: Jesus, Paul and the Law

  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Living by faith means to live by the Spirit of Jesus and not by the letter of the law.
    you mean the jots and the tittles He said He didnt come to abolish so "think NOT that I have come to"...see the Law remains...

    Or are we allowed to now kill and steal and commit adultery etc...? Because some people actually do break the law and claim they are Spirit led...

    Imagine getting pulled over by the police and to attempt a defense claim "oh sorry officer I no longer need to fulfill the law...its obligations...as I know someone who fulfilled it completely so now I dont have too..."...lol

    Living by the Spirit means to live according to the Gospel. In the Gospel we are perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. If you are perfect and complete "In Christ" then you will not need rules, laws or religion.
    here are they that keep the commandments and the faith OF His Son...not just faith in...so you will follow His faith and practice...

    So yes if you are in Him you will do as He did...at least want to try...


    You will cease from your own works and will rest in his work, Hebrews 4:10.
    Oh boy...we still need a day of rest from our works...the rest He provides is the rest given to all His people...the ones who accept it gratefully...

    Some reject it...and still claim to do as He did...

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    you mean the jots and the tittles He said He didnt come to abolish so "think NOT that I have come to"...see the Law remains...

    Or are we allowed to now kill and steal and commit adultery etc...? Because some people actually do break the law and claim they are Spirit led...

    Imagine getting pulled over by the police and to attempt a defense claim "oh sorry officer I no longer need to fulfill the law...its obligations...as I know someone who fulfilled it completely so now I dont have too..."...lol

    here are they that keep the commandments and the faith OF His Son...not just faith in...so you will follow His faith and practice...

    So yes if you are in Him you will do as He did...at least want to try...




    Oh boy...we still need a day of rest from our works...the rest He provides is the rest given to all His people...the ones who accept it gratefully...

    Some reject it...and still claim to do as He did...

    If the law has not been abolished for the Christian then the Christian is still subject to judgment and condemnation. Paul said that there is no condemnation to those that are in Christ, Romans 8:1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    If the law has not been abolished for the Christian then the Christian is still subject to judgment and condemnation. Paul said that there is no condemnation to those that are in Christ, Romans 8:1.
    Duh...of course there remains judgment and condemnation...is exactly why we wish to follow Him...His way...be more like Him...

    There isn't final condemnation as in eternal second death as well you are IN HIM...again, duh



    So how do you know if you or anyone else is IN HIM...

    By the keeping of His Law...the faith OF Him...not just faith in Him...it is to be in Him living as He did...

    One verse more "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death"

    See? Law still remains to counter balance law...the "law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus"

    now how is there NO law? or are we merely free from the law of sin and death?

    More specifically Paul was not sinless and wrote admitting as much...he also died so therefore the law of sin and death were still binding...so which law was he freed from because he followed which other law?


    The same law that castes out those not belonging in His house as they dont keep His house rules is the same law that allows for adoption into it...

    And you keep going on about there is no more law...

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    Duh...of course there remains judgment and condemnation...is exactly why we wish to follow Him...His way...be more like Him...

    There isn't final condemnation as in eternal second death as well you are IN HIM...again, duh



    So how do you know if you or anyone else is IN HIM...

    By the keeping of His Law...the faith OF Him...not just faith in Him...it is to be in Him living as He did...

    One verse more "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death"

    See? Law still remains to counter balance law...the "law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus"

    now how is there NO law? or are we merely free from the law of sin and death?

    More specifically Paul was not sinless and wrote admitting as much...he also died so therefore the law of sin and death were still binding...so which law was he freed from because he followed which other law?


    The same law that castes out those not belonging in His house as they dont keep His house rules is the same law that allows for adoption into it...

    And you keep going on about there is no more law...

    If you are found to be under the law in the judgment you will perish.

    We know that we are "In Christ" because we are trusting in his righteousness and in his atonement for our sins. And we have no confidence in the flesh (religion).

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    If you are found to be under the law in the judgment you will perish.
    what judgement? How can there be a judgement without the Law?

    Didn't anybody tell you? No more judgement day because at the cross the Law was abolished...right? Or?

    We know that we are "In Christ" because we are trusting in his righteousness and in his atonement for our sins.
    not all who cry out will be saved...even Satan believes and trusts His atonement is valid

    And we have no confidence in the flesh (religion).
    Flesh is man in a fallen state in which he makes up religions to counterfeit and corrupt the Faith of Christ into merely faith in Him...

    Man has plenty of religions...but He established His own and those that believe and follow establish not their own laws but His Law...we establish His Law...to be more like Him His Way...

    Here are they that keep the commandments of Yah...and the faith of His Son...faith without His works is dead...do as He did


    We do His work, keep His faith, follow His Way because we are saved...not to become saved

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    what judgement? How can there be a judgement without the Law?

    Didn't anybody tell you? No more judgement day because at the cross the Law was abolished...right? Or?

    not all who cry out will be saved...even Satan believes and trusts His atonement is valid



    Flesh is man in a fallen state in which he makes up religions to counterfeit and corrupt the Faith of Christ into merely faith in Him...

    Man has plenty of religions...but He established His own and those that believe and follow establish not their own laws but His Law...we establish His Law...to be more like Him His Way...

    Here are they that keep the commandments of Yah...and the faith of His Son...faith without His works is dead...do as He did


    We do His work, keep His faith, follow His Way because we are saved...not to become saved


    The lost are under the law and will be judged by the law. The law has been abolished, but only for the Christian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    The lost are under the law and will be judged by the law. The law has been abolished, but only for the Christian.
    So Christians are lawless?

    Doesn't sound at all like "here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and the faith OF His Son..."

    Or at all like "if you love me keep MY commandments"...I mean why would He divide His Fsther's house into two?

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    So Christians are lawless?

    Doesn't sound at all like "here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and the faith OF His Son..."

    Or at all like "if you love me keep MY commandments"...I mean why would He divide His Fsther's house into two?

    All that are "In Christ" are perfect and complete in God's eyes, Colossians 2:10. If you live by the law or religion, you will be judged by the law and condemned, Galatians 3:10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    All that are "In Christ" are perfect and complete in God's eyes, Colossians 2:10. If you live by the law or religion, you will be judged by the law and condemned, Galatians 3:10
    Of course in Him we are perfect...is why it is with gratitude we WANT to keep the Law as He did and asked us too...

    How else could you ever know you are made full in Him? Your fruit identify you as His...full in Him



    "For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse"

    Yup...happily we don't RELY on the works of the law...cuz when we do fail we have Him what He did and does and thus we are not cursed...

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    Of course in Him we are perfect...is why it is with gratitude we WANT to keep the Law as He did and asked us too...

    How else could you ever know you are made full in Him? Your fruit identify you as His...full in Him



    "For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse"

    Yup...happily we don't RELY on the works of the law...cuz when we do fail we have Him what He did and does and thus we are not cursed...

    If God sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ" then why do you need laws and religion?

    Living by the Spirit is not living according to laws and rules. This is why Paul said, "The Just shall live by faith" Romans 1:17. We live by faith in Christ and his Gospel. Paul said that the law had been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. The reason that it was abolished is because it is contrary to us, Colossians 2:14. No one can keep it or do it. "The letter (law) kills, but the Spirit brings life, 2 Corinthians 3:6.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    If God sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ" then why do you need laws and religion?
    duh without those laws we would not need to be in Him...its those very laws that allow Him to be our covering as His Wrath passes over...

    If the law was so expendable why not remove or change the Law before His Son HAD to die?

    Living by the Spirit is not living according to laws and rules.
    I like to play tennis not keep the rules of tennis...but the fun and spirit of the game is not to “keep da rules” but playing with someone who doesnt think the rules are in force is impossible...much less fun

    This is why Paul said, "The Just shall live by faith" Romans 1:17.
    yes exactly faith bearing works given and approved from above and not of this world

    We live by faith in Christ and his Gospel. Paul said that the law had been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. The reason that it was abolished is because it is contrary to us, Colossians 2:14.
    He didn’t abolish the price of admission He just payed if for you...the price remains...

    Or else why did He not just remove the bill prior to payment?

    No one can keep it or do it. "The letter (law) kills, but the Spirit brings life, 2 Corinthians 3:6.
    Yup...no one can...a ministry that brought condemnation was glorious...”do this and live” but only temporarily and temporally...but now the Spirit brings a more glorious ministry of righteousness...which lasts FOREVER...

    Again no one can keep it...but those who understand the charge against them has been removed...the debt paid...WANT to

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    As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been abolished, but only for believers. Those outside of Christ are under his wrath because they have not entered into his rest, Hebrews 4:1-13.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been abolished, but only for believers. Those outside of Christ are under his wrath because they have not entered into his rest, Hebrews 4:1-13.
    sin death and the devil are still around and He is not blind to it...is why we are to remain faithful until our end and the final end...not lose our hold on the trunk as grafted branches...

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    sin death and the devil are still around and He is not blind to it...is why we are to remain faithful until our end and the final end...not lose our hold on the trunk as grafted branches...
    God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ. All that have faith in Christ are "In Christ" and Christ is in heaven. Our lives are hid with Christ in God, Colossians 3:3. We have been sealed with the Holy Spirit. There is no unsealing, once sealed always sealed, Ephesians 1:13. You don't have to hold on to anything. God will hold onto you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Believe the apostle Paul, Romans 3:10. Righteousness is not by the law. Righteousness is by faith.
    Read a bit further down in Romans 3, go down to verse 31

    Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

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