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Thread: Jerusalem capital of israel

  1. #31
    TOL Legend drbrumley's Avatar
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    Contrary to what many Americans seem to think, the document we now call "the Constitution" and the Declaration of Independence are not pretty much the same thing or "connected in spirit," or "two sides of the same coin." The two documents were written by two different groups of people at two different times to accomplish two totally different goals.

  2. #32
    Silver Member kmoney's Avatar
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    I don't support this decision but it feels like this may be getting a worse reaction that required. Partially because of timing. Rumors came out ahead of time so some of it was left to speculation and people started getting upset already. And partially because I think Trump is given no leeway. He has no goodwill to work with.

    The timing is strange considering Kushner is supposed to be working on a deal. A common theme seems to be that it would have made more sense to package this with announcing a peace plan that has give and take for both sides. But a standalone move like this is easier to criticize and it's easier to think Trump is catering to Israel at the expense of Palestinians.

    Trump said that this had to be done, but I fail to see any reason why. What was wrong with the status quo. It seems like this is mostly about trying to fulfill a campaign promise and making people happy domestically. It's another bone to evangelicals.

    He cited the past failures on the issue and that continuing on the same path won't make anything better, but it also wouldn't make it worse. This could make it worse.




    “We have consulted with many friends, partners, and allies in advance of the President making his decision,” Tillerson said in a statement. “We firmly believe there is an opportunity for a lasting peace.”



    Which friends, partners, and allies? Were they all Israelis?

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    Quote Originally Posted by drbrumley View Post
    Neville he says....
    Yup. You advise appeasement, just like Neville, as a way to peace. It has never worked before and will not work this time either with a group of people dedicated to the destruction of an entire nation and people. If you think it will, well, continue sticking your head in the sand, Neville.

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  5. #34
    TOL Legend drbrumley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    Yup. You advise appeasement, just like Neville, as a way to peace. It has never worked before and will not work this time either with a group of people dedicated to the destruction of an entire nation and people. If you think it will, well, continue sticking your head in the sand, Neville.
    Appease who exactly?

    I'm going to give you an excuse of not knowing me and what I stand for. You seem new and like to run your mouth. Israel has a right to exist and make its' capital anywhere within its' own borders. And it can fight its own battles.
    Contrary to what many Americans seem to think, the document we now call "the Constitution" and the Declaration of Independence are not pretty much the same thing or "connected in spirit," or "two sides of the same coin." The two documents were written by two different groups of people at two different times to accomplish two totally different goals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drbrumley View Post
    Appease who exactly?

    I'm going to give you an excuse of not knowing me and what I stand for. You seem new and like to run your mouth. Israel has a right to exist and make its' capital anywhere within its' own borders. And it can fight its own battles.
    The following quote is from the link you posted.

    President Donald Trump is on the verge of becoming the first U.S. president to recognize Jerusalem as the official capital of Israel, upending decades of American foreign policy and risking an escalation of violence that Arab leaders have warned could have far-reaching implications across the region.
    The US government has refused, up to now, to recognize Israel's right to move its capital to wherever it chooses. Why? To not anger the Palestinians and Arabs. What is that other than appeasement? Neville swore up and down that Britain should not anger Hitler by doing anything that Hitler didn't like and that the result of appeasing him would stop his aggression. The very article you linked to advocates exactly the same thing.

    Since when have the Arabs or Palestinians ever shown that they will accept the state of Israel's right to exist? They never have and the rhetoric has just grown stronger over the years as they have been appeased time after time. The history of that region ever since the state of Israel was created shows this to be true. The only way Israel has ever achieved any form of peace or safety is through the use of arms. At the creation of Israel they offered Israeli citizenship and the lands the Palestinians owned to the Palestinians. Did the Palestinians accept that offer? Nope. They refused to be treated as equals by the Israeli's because they wanted the destruction of Israel, not its continued existence. That position has never changed.

  7. #36
    TOL Legend Angel4Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgarden View Post

    Whatever Trump's motives, he didn't do it for God, Israel or to promote peace in the world!
    Are you God? Read my heart now, tell me what i want the most in life...

    "Around the country, progressive bullies have attacked Christians for daring to put their faith ahead of the pet causes of those who feign compassion while destroying life-giving liberties. What we are seeing is a scorched-earth, take-no-prisoners approach as the wildfire burns across our land. It is not enough that Christians be quiet. Christians must be silenced and punished. Their faith cannot be respected. Legislation that ensures people are free to live and work according to their faith without fear of being punished by government must be stopped and decried as discrimination...There is one key reason that those on the Left must force their beliefs on the rest of us: if they didn't force their craziness on us, we would never embrace it." ~Erick Erickson
    Proverbs 3:5-8

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    The following quote is from the link you posted.



    The US government has refused, up to now, to recognize Israel's right to move its capital to wherever it chooses. Why? To not anger the Palestinians and Arabs. What is that other than appeasement? Neville swore up and down that Britain should not anger Hitler by doing anything that Hitler didn't like and that the result of appeasing him would stop his aggression. The very article you linked to advocates exactly the same thing.

    Since when have the Arabs or Palestinians ever shown that they will accept the state of Israel's right to exist? They never have and the rhetoric has just grown stronger over the years as they have been appeased time after time. The history of that region ever since the state of Israel was created shows this to be true. The only way Israel has ever achieved any form of peace or safety is through the use of arms. At the creation of Israel they offered Israeli citizenship and the lands the Palestinians owned to the Palestinians. Did the Palestinians accept that offer? Nope. They refused to be treated as equals by the Israeli's because they wanted the destruction of Israel, not its continued existence. That position has never changed.
    Um, it's an opinion. My opinion is we stay out of it.....NOT OUR FIGHT! If them two numbskulls want to destroy one another, that's on them.

    Oh wait, next your going to say we need to be the world's policeman.
    Contrary to what many Americans seem to think, the document we now call "the Constitution" and the Declaration of Independence are not pretty much the same thing or "connected in spirit," or "two sides of the same coin." The two documents were written by two different groups of people at two different times to accomplish two totally different goals.

  10. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by drbrumley View Post
    Um, it's an opinion. My opinion is we stay out of it.....NOT OUR FIGHT! If them two numbskulls want to destroy one another, that's on them.

    Oh wait, next your going to say we need to be the world's policeman.
    Isnt it the right thing to do then, acknowledging a countries choice of capitol? We didnt choose it, they did.

    "Around the country, progressive bullies have attacked Christians for daring to put their faith ahead of the pet causes of those who feign compassion while destroying life-giving liberties. What we are seeing is a scorched-earth, take-no-prisoners approach as the wildfire burns across our land. It is not enough that Christians be quiet. Christians must be silenced and punished. Their faith cannot be respected. Legislation that ensures people are free to live and work according to their faith without fear of being punished by government must be stopped and decried as discrimination...There is one key reason that those on the Left must force their beliefs on the rest of us: if they didn't force their craziness on us, we would never embrace it." ~Erick Erickson
    Proverbs 3:5-8

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  12. #39
    TOL Legend drbrumley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angel4Truth View Post
    Isnt it the right thing to do then, acknowledging a countries choice of capitol? We didnt choose it, they did.
    Sure it is right.....of which I don't really object. Israel can have their 1/3rd of it as they were supposed to. But that is not what is happening.
    Contrary to what many Americans seem to think, the document we now call "the Constitution" and the Declaration of Independence are not pretty much the same thing or "connected in spirit," or "two sides of the same coin." The two documents were written by two different groups of people at two different times to accomplish two totally different goals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drbrumley View Post
    Sure it is right.....of which I don't really object. Israel can have their 1/3rd of it as they were supposed to. But that is not what is happening.
    Well yes, that is what is happening, he acknowledge jerusalem as their capital and instead of passing the buck like other presidents have he is actively attempting to follow through on the promise of moving our embassy to Jerusalem like promised.

    "Around the country, progressive bullies have attacked Christians for daring to put their faith ahead of the pet causes of those who feign compassion while destroying life-giving liberties. What we are seeing is a scorched-earth, take-no-prisoners approach as the wildfire burns across our land. It is not enough that Christians be quiet. Christians must be silenced and punished. Their faith cannot be respected. Legislation that ensures people are free to live and work according to their faith without fear of being punished by government must be stopped and decried as discrimination...There is one key reason that those on the Left must force their beliefs on the rest of us: if they didn't force their craziness on us, we would never embrace it." ~Erick Erickson
    Proverbs 3:5-8

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    TOL Legend drbrumley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angel4Truth View Post
    Well yes, that is what is happening, he acknowledge jerusalem as their capital and instead of passing the buck like other presidents have he is actively attempting to follow through on the promise of moving our embassy to Jerusalem like promised.
    1/3rd? I dont think so.
    Contrary to what many Americans seem to think, the document we now call "the Constitution" and the Declaration of Independence are not pretty much the same thing or "connected in spirit," or "two sides of the same coin." The two documents were written by two different groups of people at two different times to accomplish two totally different goals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drbrumley View Post
    Um, it's an opinion. My opinion is we stay out of it.....NOT OUR FIGHT! If them two numbskulls want to destroy one another, that's on them.

    Oh wait, next your going to say we need to be the world's policeman.
    Nope. That's the last thing we need to try to do. However, we have signed treaties with the Israelis, so we have an ethical obligation to honor those treaties.

    So, your opinion is that we should appease the Arabs/Palestinians to keep them from getting mad. We all have opinions. Some of them are grounded in reality and some are not. Some are based upon nothing more than wishful thinking. Appeasement has always been based upon this. Ever tried to appease a bully? Just doesn't work. They just up the level of threat, intimidation and violence because they see any agreement as weakness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    appeasement
    Yeppers, that's what it is, appeasement to a bunch of barbaric jihadists.
    I grow so tired of seeing folks that want to cower to perverted sickos.

    God Bless America

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    Yeppers, that's what it is, appeasement to a bunch of barbaric jihadists.
    I grow so tired of seeing folks that want to cower to perverted sickos.
    maybe it is me, but how can it be appeasement when both parties wanted us to negotiate on their behalf...bizarre.
    Contrary to what many Americans seem to think, the document we now call "the Constitution" and the Declaration of Independence are not pretty much the same thing or "connected in spirit," or "two sides of the same coin." The two documents were written by two different groups of people at two different times to accomplish two totally different goals.

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    Can anyone give a reason why there can be no peace agreement if Jerusalem is internationally recognized as the capital of Israel?

    God Bless America

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