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Thread: Gods Word Originated From God The Father.

  1. #16
    LIFETIME MEMBER meshak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dahelmang View Post
    Why doesn't it mean they are one God? Who else is one with God in the Bible?

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    Because Jesus says it clearly that He cannot do anything on His own.

    You dismiss inconvenient verses to make up your own doctrine.
    If you want to be true to God and Jesus, abandon any kind of violence at all cost. By advocating any kind of violence, you are misrepresenting Christianity.

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    LIFETIME MEMBER meshak's Avatar
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    Squeaky, I will leave if you don't want me to contribute to this thread.
    If you want to be true to God and Jesus, abandon any kind of violence at all cost. By advocating any kind of violence, you are misrepresenting Christianity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dahelmang View Post
    That is not inconsistent with the Trinity. Jesus and the Father are one, as they have always been. What is your point?

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    I said
    Jesus and God are one in agreement. Jesus prays that we are one with them, in agreement. Read the OP the Word originated from God. The Word had to be given to Jesus. It didn't originate from Jesus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dahelmang View Post
    Why doesn't it mean they are one God? Who else is one with God in the Bible?

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    I said
    Jesus prays that we are one with them. To be one with God isn't going to make us God. Just like it didn't make Jesus into God.

    John 17:22
    22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
    (NKJ)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    I said
    Jesus prays that we are one with them. To be one with God isn't going to make us God. Just like it didn't make Jesus into God.

    John 17:22
    22"And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
    (NKJ)
    Right after He says that though, He says God loved Him before the creation of the world. How could this be if Jesus is not eternal like the Father?
    “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.
    John 17:24 NIV

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    I said
    Jesus and God are one in agreement. Jesus prays that we are one with them, in agreement. Read the OP the Word originated from God. The Word had to be given to Jesus. It didn't originate from Jesus.
    The word that John refers to is Jesus. When Jesus talks about the word He doesn't mean the same thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dahelmang View Post
    Right after He says that though, He says God loved Him before the creation of the world. How could this be if Jesus is not eternal like the Father?
    “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.
    John 17:24 NIV

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    I said
    God was alone, so He created Jesus to have someone to love. Then God created everything else for Jesus. So Jesus would have someone to love.

    Col 1:15
    15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
    (NKJ)

    When you see where God created everything through Jesus. The word through means "reason for".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    I said
    God was alone, so He created Jesus to have someone to love. Then God created everything else for Jesus. So Jesus would have someone to love.

    Col 1:15
    15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
    (NKJ)

    When you see where God created everything through Jesus. The word through means "reason for".
    It says He was firstborn over all creation. That is His position. It does not mean He was created. If Jesus had been created He would not have claimed to be God. Yet this He did several times. For example:
    But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer. Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?” “I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
    Mark 14:61*-‬62 NIV
    Now we Christians may not immediately understand "Son of Man" and "coming on the clouds of heaven", but it was at this point the High Priest decided Jesus had blasphemed. To understand why we look at the only other place in Scripture that these phrases are used:
    “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
    Daniel 7:13*-‬14 NIV
    If Jesus is given authority, glory, sovereign power, and worship, how can He be less than God?

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    LIFETIME MEMBER meshak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dahelmang View Post
    It says He was firstborn over all creation. That is His position. It does not mean He was created. If Jesus had been created He would not have claimed to be God. Yet this He did several times. For example:
    But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer. Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?” “I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
    I won't go into all your excuses but Jesus did not say "I am God". This is your own added supposition.
    If you want to be true to God and Jesus, abandon any kind of violence at all cost. By advocating any kind of violence, you are misrepresenting Christianity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by meshak View Post
    I won't go into all your excuses but Jesus did not say "I am God". This is your own added supposition.
    How plainly does He have to state it for you to understand? That's why they killed Him. It was plain enough for the Jews tonunderstand. He was worshipped and did not stop people from worshipping Him, as any angel or the Apostles would have done. He said He is the alpha and the omega, the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven. He is called Emmanuel, God with us. If He were less than God, this would be blasphemy, the very thing the Jews accused Him of.

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    LIFETIME MEMBER meshak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dahelmang View Post
    How plainly does He have to state it for you to understand? That's why they killed Him.
    They don't have to have legit reason to kill Him.

    They don't care about the truth.
    If you want to be true to God and Jesus, abandon any kind of violence at all cost. By advocating any kind of violence, you are misrepresenting Christianity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by meshak View Post
    They don't have to have legit reason to kill Him.

    They don't care about the truth.
    You're right, they don't have to have a legitimate reason to kill Him. But He corrected them on so many things, why wouldn't He correct them on a supposed misunderstanding? Did He want them to believe He was claiming to be God, but didn't want us to believe the same thing? Why? And why didn't He correct Thomas when he called Jesus "My Lord and my God"? If Jesus wasn't God, this was blasphemy as well.
    I just don't understand how you came to this conclusion.

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    LIFETIME MEMBER meshak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dahelmang View Post
    You're right, they don't have to have a legitimate reason to kill Him. But He corrected them on so many things,

    Did He corrected them saying He is God? nope.

    Your reasoning is so laim.
    If you want to be true to God and Jesus, abandon any kind of violence at all cost. By advocating any kind of violence, you are misrepresenting Christianity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by meshak View Post
    Did He corrected them saying He is God? nope.

    Your reasoning is so laim.
    As opposed to your lack of argument? Why are your trolling me?

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    LIFETIME MEMBER meshak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dahelmang View Post
    As opposed to your lack of argument? Why are your trolling me?

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    I am trolling?

    How?
    If you want to be true to God and Jesus, abandon any kind of violence at all cost. By advocating any kind of violence, you are misrepresenting Christianity.

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