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Thread: Christ's Commandments

  1. #46
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    Post Re: Christ's Commandments

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    Rom 14:2-4 . . One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him.

    If you sincerely believe that fast food, GMO, high fructose corn syrup, non organic produce, processed foods, grain-fed beef, raw oysters, sushi, and/or anything fried in lard is sinful; well; more power to you; but God forbid you should condemn others who disagree because to my knowledge The Lord has issued no hard and fast rules regulating Christian nourishment other than those listed at Acts 15:19-20.

    So then; whether or not to eat grass-fed beef or grain-fed beef is your call; although in my judicious estimation; you run a much higher risk of contracting E.coli 0157-H7 by eating grain-fed beef. But the choice to run that risk is yours alone; not mine. The important point to note is that either way, God will accept one's diet just so long as they are convinced in their own mind it's not a sinful diet.

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  2. #47
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    Post Re: Christ's Commandments

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    Rom 14:5 . . One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

    Common Christian holy days are The Lord's Day (Sunday), Solemnity of Mary the Mother of God, the Epiphany, Solemnity of Saint Joseph Husband of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Ascension Trinity Sunday, Solemnity of Saints Peter and Paul, Good Friday, the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary, All Saints, the Feast of the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Nativity of our Lord Jesus Christ (Christmas), and the Sabbath. Some would probably include Easter and Ash Wednesday.

    If your denomination, or your church of choice, rules that days like the above are sacred, then for you they are. Whether God himself really and truly rules them as sacred is irrelevant. What matters is whether you are convinced He does.

    Rom 14:13a . .Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another.

    Within the context of the 14th of Romans, "passing judgment" pertains to condemning others for refusal to accept and/or comply with your gray-area beliefs and practices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WeberHome View Post
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    Rom 14:5 . . One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

    Common Christian holy days are The Lord's Day (Sunday), Solemnity of Mary the Mother of God, the Epiphany, Solemnity of Saint Joseph Husband of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Ascension Trinity Sunday, Solemnity of Saints Peter and Paul, Good Friday, the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary, All Saints, the Feast of the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Nativity of our Lord Jesus Christ (Christmas), and the Sabbath. Some would probably include Easter and Ash Wednesday.

    If your denomination, or your church of choice, rules that days like the above are sacred, then for you they are. Whether God himself really and truly rules them as sacred is irrelevant. What matters is whether you are convinced He does.

    Rom 14:13a . .Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another.

    Within the context of the 14th of Romans, "passing judgment" pertains to condemning others for refusal to accept and/or comply with your gray-area beliefs and practices.

    /
    Peter was right to warn about Paul being used incorrectly...

    If you insist Paul is teaching as you teach then he is teaching against the temple and its law and thus lied when he claimed he didn’t...and the author of acts lied because the witness against Paul’s teaching the law was changed would be true not false...

    The people with the golden calf were convinced in their hearts and Aaron even pronounced a feast day for them their conviction...

    You also miss, what most also do, that James at the conclusion of the Jerusalem council, as head of the church and brother of Christ, concluded and maintained an intention the gentiles would keep hearing Moses preached every Sabbath...Paul demonstrated this by inviting the crowding gentiles one Sabbath to return not the next day for sunday services or for midweek services but the following Sabbath...if any day would do for worship as long as people were convinced this act is hypocrisy contrary to his teaching...

    Let’s now look at the letter to the romans...chapter 14

    It begins with the council not to dispute over doubtful things...now romans were a cosmopolitan lot and had many worship days to choose from...but the Sabbath was very much NOT doubted...since even on the night the new covenant was signed by His blood and sealed with His death...His followers prepared for His burial but STILL rested on the Sabbath as per the still binding commandment...

    Verse 2 reveals an issue Paul wishes to now address...diet and with it fasting...some believers were weaker than others Paul was addressing the new tradition of not eating meat offered to idols and the old tradition of which day to choose to fast...Some Jews fasted two days each week throughout the entire year (Luke 18:12). Such weekly fasts were observed on Thursdays and Mondays, because according to their tradition, Moses ascended Mount Sinai on Thursday and descended on Monday...

    Paul emphasized we are all to stand before Judgement seat of Christ to see how we stood as servants for our master...

    NOT ONE reference to Sabbath...Paul is going on about diet which day to fast or not...doubtful things based on tradition not as He practiced and exemplified without a doubt...

    the entire chapter not one reference to the Sabbath...but rather diet...what is clean what is not...do not destroy with food one Christ died for...the kingdom of God is not about food and drink...do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food...dont eat or drink if it causes the weaker to stumble...dont eat if in doubt Paul concludes Romans 14...nothing about the Sabbath which is not a doubtful thing

    Again arguing from silence and attempting to insert to add or take away from the word is not to be encouraged but is a stumbling block...no wait a curseable offense...

    James concluded in Acts 15 that Moses would be heard every Sabbath and gentiles crowding to hear it would be led by the Spirit into further truth the more they heard...”do this and live”...

    Please note ”thy Law is my delight” was at the time THE ONLY SCRIPTURE THEY HAD...

    And loving Yah with false worship is not how He loved us...we are to follow Him as He did...JUST AS He did including how what and when we eat and worship

  4. #49
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    Post Re: Christ's Commandments

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    Rom 14:13b . . Make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way.

    The koiné Greek word translated "stumbling block" means a stub. For example: one year I cut down a troublesome bush in my front yard and left a bit of a stump sticking up out of the ground that later damaged my lawn mower when I accidentally ran over it while cutting the grass; which had grown tall enough to conceal the stump. In that respect, stumbling blocks are hazards not easily detected.

    Within the context of the 14th of Romans, I would equate stumbling blocks to the clever sophistry that silver-tongued orators employ to persuade people to do things contrary to their convictions and their conscience. In other words; there are people out there with the skills to make a lie sound like the God's truth. (cf. Eph 4:11-14)

    Rom 14:14-16 . . I know and am perfectly sure on the authority of The Lord Jesus that no food, in and of itself, is wrong to eat. But if someone believes it is wrong, then for that person it is wrong. And if another Christian is distressed by what you eat, you are not acting in love if you eat it. Don't let your eating ruin someone for whom Christ died. Then you will not be condemned for doing something you know is alright.

    You may believe that there is nothing wrong with eating non-Kosher foods; but your dinner companion might feel very strongly about it. Well; sure, you can get by with eating non-Kosher foods; but Rom 14:14-16 is saying don't. In other words; it is Christ's wishes that you restrain yourself from eating non-Kosher foods in front of your companion out of respect for their feelings about it.

    I would go so far as to say that rule applies to alcohol. If your dinner companion is a recovering alcoholic, then for God's sake don't order drinks at your table. It's not only thoughtless and offensive; but you might inadvertently succeed in bumping your friend off the wagon.

    /

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeberHome View Post
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    Rom 14:13b . . Make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way.

    The koiné Greek word translated "stumbling block" means a stub. For example: one year I cut down a troublesome bush in my front yard and left a bit of a stump sticking up out of the ground that later damaged my lawn mower when I accidentally ran over it while cutting the grass; which had grown tall enough to conceal the stump. In that respect, stumbling blocks are hazards not easily detected.

    Within the context of the 14th of Romans, I would equate stumbling blocks to the clever sophistry that silver-tongued orators employ to persuade people to do things contrary to their convictions and their conscience. In other words; there are people out there with the skills to make a lie sound like the God's truth. (cf. Eph 4:11-14)

    Rom 14:14-16 . . I know and am perfectly sure on the authority of The Lord Jesus that no food, in and of itself, is wrong to eat. But if someone believes it is wrong, then for that person it is wrong. And if another Christian is distressed by what you eat, you are not acting in love if you eat it. Don't let your eating ruin someone for whom Christ died. Then you will not be condemned for doing something you know is alright.

    You may believe that there is nothing wrong with eating non-Kosher foods; but your dinner companion might feel very strongly about it. Well; sure, you can get by with eating non-Kosher foods; but Rom 14:14-16 is saying don't. In other words; it is Christ's wishes that you restrain yourself from eating non-Kosher foods in front of your companion out of respect for their feelings about it.

    I would go so far as to say that rule applies to alcohol. If your dinner companion is a recovering alcoholic, then for God's sake don't order drinks at your table. It's not only thoughtless and offensive; but you might inadvertently succeed in bumping your friend off the wagon.

    /
    Yes good analogy with alcohol...

    and yet imagine your weaker brother walking by and seeing you through the pub window enjoying your being “over served”...and then wishing he too could be like you...and NOT Him

    Is why He became weaker than the weakest to serve them...the lostestest...

    the answer is “Yes!” to the question “am I my brother’s keeper”...sadly it took a whole bible and the death of a Holy One to even begin to learn that...

    Loving Him JUST AS He loved us is key...

    Lay down your life of flesh...that they too may live...

    I have even seen healthy people with beautiful hair shave their heads in solidarity with a complete stranger bald from chemo treatment...

    It helps...
    Last edited by clefty; January 7th, 2018 at 03:52 PM.

  6. #51
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    Post Re: Christ's Commandments

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    Rom 14:19 . . Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification.

    The koiné Greek word for "edification" is oikodome (oy-kod-om-ay') which is a word related to the building trades; and in this instance would be related to structural improvements like a new wing, or a bedroom, or another floor; and in many instances adds square footage to an already-existing structure and/or improves its appearance, its value, and it's utility. Edification then, builds up instead of tearing down.

    Webster's defines "peace" as a state in which there is no war or fighting; viz: harmony and mutual concord.

    ”For I am afraid that when I come I may not find you as I want you to be, and you may not find me as you want me to be. I fear that there may be quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, factions, slander, gossip, arrogance and disorder." (2Cor 12:19-20)

    Rom 14:20-21 . . Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble.

    The critters that God lists in Israel's covenanted law as unsuitable for food aren't intrinsically unsuitable. They're only unsuitable for Israel because that's how God wants it for His people. But outside the covenant; and for everybody else: everything is suitable for food; all flora and all fauna.

    "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything. (Gen 9:3)

    "The voice spoke to him a second time; "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean." (Acts 10:15)

    /

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    Quote Originally Posted by WeberHome View Post
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    Rom 14:19 . . Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification.

    The koiné Greek word for "edification" is oikodome (oy-kod-om-ay') which is a word related to the building trades; and in this instance would be related to structural improvements like a new wing, or a bedroom, or another floor; and in many instances adds square footage to an already-existing structure and/or improves its appearance, its value, and it's utility. Edification then, builds up instead of tearing down.

    Webster's defines "peace" as a state in which there is no war or fighting; viz: harmony and mutual concord.

    ”For I am afraid that when I come I may not find you as I want you to be, and you may not find me as you want me to be. I fear that there may be quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, factions, slander, gossip, arrogance and disorder." (2Cor 12:19-20)

    Rom 14:20-21 . . Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble.

    The critters that God lists in Israel's covenanted law as unsuitable for food aren't intrinsically unsuitable. They're only unsuitable for Israel because that's how God wants it for His people. But outside the covenant; and for everybody else: everything is suitable for food; all flora and all fauna.

    "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything. (Gen 9:3)

    "The voice spoke to him a second time; "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean." (Acts 10:15)

    /
    Why don’t we go with how Peter interpreted the vision?

    ...and multiple times?

    Acts 10:28,29
    Peter talks to the assembly, and says “You know, that it is unlawful for a Jew to keep company with, or visit foreigners”. Let’s stop here for a minute and study what Peter really meant, before we proceed. First of all, we should see that it was a known fact by all, that Jews did not keep company with foreigners. Otherwise, Peter would not start his speech by saying “You know”. We see this separation throughout the bible(John 4:9) So much so, that Jews did not even talk with non-Jews (John 4:27). They tried to even refrain from stepping into buildings that foreigners were in(John 18:28). Had God Almighty, instituted such a Law? God has always advised Israel not to go after the nations, and their ways, but never to not keep company with them or talk to them. in Deut 4:6-8, God even advised Israel to keep His Laws so Gentiles will see the good things of God and obey God. This law, of division between Jew and Gentile, like many other laws, were forced on Israel by their teachers and rulers, such as the Pharisees. (More about them in a future study). So, in short, It was a custom, or man made law, that no Jew could visit or keep company with a Gentile.

    Now we finally get some solid answers to the questions we asked in Acts 10:15,16. Peter goes on to say, “but God has showed me that I should not call any man “common/unholy” or “unclean”. That is why I came promptly to you, as soon as I was asked to come”. It is very clear, by reading this admission, that Peter understood his vision the moment the 3 men asked him to come with them to Ceasarea. He understood that “God had showed” him the vision concerning not calling any man “Common/Unholy” and “Unclean”. Putting no difference between a person who knows God, and a person who is searching for God. Remember, ultimately, all are children of Noah, a child of God.

    Acts 10:30-33
    Cornelius explains what happened to him and tells Peter that they are present, to learn what God has commanded them to do.

    Acts 10:34,35
    Then Peter says that he “understands” that God does not respect any particular individual or nation, and that He has accepted all who “fear Him” and “does what is righteous”, in all nations.

    Acts 11:2,3
    When Peter came to Jerusalem, “those from the Circumcision” opposed Peter. Notice, that it was not the “Apostles” and “all the believers” who opposed him. It was only those of “the Circumcision”. Some think that “the Circumcision” is, all Jews. Not so. (Gal 2:12,13 showcases how Peter was scared of the Circumcision, and how the “other Jews”, who were not of “the Circumcision Party/Group” also followed him). They believed, as per the name which is used to call them, that you needed to be circumcised to be saved.

    What was the accusation brought forward against Peter? That Peter went to “men who are not Circumcised” and ate with them.

    Acts 11:4-15
    To this, Peter replied by conveying the whole story which happened to him, not starting with the 3 men who came to Joppa, but starting with the vision he saw. He tells them the vision, and how as he was having the vision, the 3 men were looking for him at the house, and how 6 believers, present with him, went with him to Caesarea. How Cornelius had seen an Angel, and how the Holy Spirit fell, while he spoke.

    Acts 11:16-18
    Peter also says that he remembered what Yeshua said “John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit”. He told everyone, that God had given the Holy Spirit to the gentiles who believed in Yeshua, and asked them, who was he to withstand God. When “the Circumcision party/group” heard this, they kept quiet and glorified God, saying that God had granted repentance unto the gentiles as well.

    https://biblethingsinbibleways.wordp...acts-101-1118/

    Nothing there about Peter having a Ham sandwich...even though it was not offered to idols or killed properly or drained of blood...which would NOT make it clean anyway...

    Peter obviously didn’t agree with translators who added commentary to Mark’s gospel that his Master had “saying this He made all things clean”...

    Mark 7 incidentally was dealing with food made unclean by unwashed hands...again not Ham which is never considered food...

  8. #53
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    There's really no need to quote an entire post when there's just one point in that you'd like to address. Whole-post quoting not only plasters a thread with unnecessary clutter but also a waste of perfectly good forum bytes.

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    Post Re: Christ's Commandments

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    Rom 15:1-2 . . We may know that certain things make no difference, but we cannot just go ahead and do them to please ourselves. We must be considerate of the doubts and fears of those who believe certain things are wrong.

    God forbid that any of Christ's followers should talk their fellow Christians into doing something that bothers their conscience because then both they and the talker will be in the wrong even if the talker is right.

    Rom 14:22a . . So whatever you personally believe in debatable areas keep between yourself and God.

    Rom 14:22b-23 . . Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.

    In other words, it's possible to be wrong even when you're right because it's a sin to forge ahead when one's conscience is not sure it's okay to do so.

    I once knew a Christian who felt guilty just setting foot inside a BlockBuster video store. Was he silly for feeling that way? Not in his mind; and it's your own personal moral compass that counts in gray areas. Some Christians can't permit themselves to dine in a restaurant that serves alcohol; while others see nothing wrong with it. If those two kinds of Christians should perchance dine out together, it's the more sensitive conscience that determines where to eat.

    In other words; it makes good spiritual sense to avoid insisting upon your freedoms and rights sometimes in order to prevent dragging your fellow Christians into something that makes them feel guilty and/or uncomfortable.

    /

  10. #55
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    Blessed is the man that does not condemn himself by what he approves still remains...

  11. #56
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    Post Re: Christ's Commandments

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    Rom 15:1-2 . . We may know that certain things make no difference, but we cannot just go ahead and do them to please ourselves. We must be considerate of the doubts and fears of those who believe certain things are wrong.

    Rom 15:7 . . Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God.

    That's a bit tricky but I think it just means believers should acknowledge one another as Christians, and treat one another as Christians, though they may differ in opinion about what constitutes a true Christian.

    For example: it's not unusual to hear a Christian pontificate that real Christians would never watch R-rated movies, gamble, wear a speedo or a string bikini, use cosmetics, smoke marijuana, expose cleavage or wear skin tight yoga pants in public, stop for a beer on the way home from work, have a glass of wine before bedtime, listen to RAP music, ditch church and Sunday school for years at a time, or go in a bar or a nightclub where there's topless female dancers up on a stage twining themselves around a pole while leering men stuff currency into the hems of their skimpy little costumes.

    Too many Christians have the opinion that unless others believe and behave the very same way they believe and behave, then those others are not Christians. Well; the easiest way to settle this is to follow Webster's definition that a Christian is simply someone who professes a belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ. That's it: no more, no less, and no qualifiers. They don't even have to practice Christ's teachings; they only have to profess a belief in them; nor do they even have to know what his teachings are; they only have to profess a belief in them.

    An internet forum I was on in the past made it even easier. In order to qualify as a Christian on that forum; one only had to believe they were a Christian; viz: they didn't have to prove they were a Christian; no, they only had to be convinced in their own minds that they were a Christian. If we all followed that rule it would put a stop to a lot of unnecessary quarreling and bad feelings.

    /

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    Quote Originally Posted by WeberHome View Post
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    Rom 15:1-2 . . We may know that certain things make no difference, but we cannot just go ahead and do them to please ourselves. We must be considerate of the doubts and fears of those who believe certain things are wrong.

    Rom 15:7 . . Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God.

    That's a bit tricky but I think it just means believers should acknowledge one another as Christians, and treat one another as Christians, though they may differ in opinion about what constitutes a true Christian.

    For example: it's not unusual to hear a Christian pontificate that real Christians would never watch R-rated movies, gamble, wear a speedo or a string bikini, use cosmetics, smoke marijuana, expose cleavage or wear skin tight yoga pants in public, stop for a beer on the way home from work, have a glass of wine before bedtime, listen to RAP music, ditch church and Sunday school for years at a time, or go in a bar or a nightclub where there's topless female dancers up on a stage twining themselves around a pole while leering men stuff currency into the hems of their skimpy little costumes.

    Too many Christians have the opinion that unless others believe and behave the very same way they believe and behave, then those others are not Christians. Well; the easiest way to settle this is to follow Webster's definition that a Christian is simply someone who professes a belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ. That's it: no more, no less, and no qualifiers. They don't even have to practice Christ's teachings; they only have to profess a belief in them; nor do they even have to know what his teachings are; they only have to profess a belief in them.

    An internet forum I was on in the past made it even easier. In order to qualify as a Christian on that forum; one only had to believe they were a Christian; viz: they didn't have to prove they were a Christian; no, they only had to be convinced in their own minds that they were a Christian. If we all followed that rule it would put a stop to a lot of unnecessary quarreling and bad feelings.

    /
    Even Satan has a belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ even that He is the Son of God the Saviour...

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    Even Satan has a belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ even that He is the Son of God the Saviour...
    Exactly.

    Wasn't there a scripture somewhere where Christ said He never knew some claiming His name?

    If someone starts a post with "Last night, at the topless bar, after my forth beer, I was discussing religion, which ended up in a brawl with me getting thrown out..." I might have doubts too
    Stop the culling of Cape Town's baboons!

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    Quote Originally Posted by iouae View Post
    Exactly.

    Wasn't there a scripture somewhere where Christ said He never knew some claiming His name?

    If someone starts a post with "Last night, at the topless bar, after my forth beer, I was discussing religion, which ended up in a brawl with me getting thrown out..." I might have doubts too
    Yikes...lol

    But yes...even the thief on the cross publically demonstrated by works the intention of his heart...it was NOT just belief in...

    There is world of difference between living with faith in Him and living the faith OF Him...

    the latter is the lifestyle of the new world when it will be on earth as it is in heaven...as it was before this detour of sin...

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    Yikes...lol

    But yes...even the thief on the cross publically demonstrated by works the intention of his heart...it was NOT just belief in...

    There is world of difference between living with faith in Him and living the faith OF Him...

    the latter is the lifestyle of the new world when it will be on earth as it is in heaven...as it was before this detour of sin...
    Yes.

    Some may think a Christian is a person who confessed a belief in Jesus, said the sinners prayer, and went on as they were.

    To me, confessing a belief in Christ just starts a lifetime of repentance, where every day we kill off a little more of that old "despicable me".

    Where I agree with WeberHome when he says "That's a bit tricky but I think it just means believers should acknowledge one another as Christians, and treat one another as Christians, though they may differ in opinion about what constitutes a true Christian" is in the arena of doctrine. We need to stop calling folks "heretic" and "blasphemer" over some minor difference in doctrine such as say, predestination. In science, there is no equivalent word for "heretic". In scientific circles, those expressing uninformed opinions are just considered "ignorant", and felt sorry for.
    Stop the culling of Cape Town's baboons!

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to iouae For Your Post:

    popsthebuilder (January 10th, 2018)

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