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Thread: Will there be animal sacrifice during the 1000 years millennium?

  1. #16
    Over 2500 post club beameup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    There is no gap between this present evil age and the world to come.
    And he [false Christ] shall confirm the covenant with many for one shabuwa` : and in the midst of the shabuwa` he [false Christ] shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. Daniel 9:27
    shabuwa` = seven, a "week" of years

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    LIFETIME MEMBER jamie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beameup View Post
    And he [false Christ] shall confirm the covenant with many for one shabuwa` : and in the midst of the shabuwa` he [false Christ] shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. Daniel 9:27
    Wrong. Christ confirmed the covenant and ended animal sacrifices.

    Christ was cut off in the middle of the week.

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    Over 2500 post club beameup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    Wrong. Christ confirmed the covenant and ended animal sacrifices.
    Which explains why animal sacrifices are offered in Ezekiel from chapter 40 on. hahahahahahahaha

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    Quote Originally Posted by beameup View Post
    And he [false Christ] shall confirm the covenant with many for one shabuwa` : and in the midst of the shabuwa` he [false Christ] shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. Daniel 9:27
    shabuwa` = seven, a "week" of years
    That is a shameful interpretation of the verse.
    Here is what the verse actually states:

    Daniel 9:27
    27 And he (God) shall confirm the (new) covenant with many for one week (seven years): and in the midst of the week (seven years) he (God) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,
    and for the overspreading of abominations he (God) shall make it (Jerusalem) desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.



    Here is the declaration about the new covenant:

    Jeremiah 31:31-34
    31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
    32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
    33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
    34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.



    Here is the confirmation of the new covenant:

    Matthew 26:28
    28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.



    Here is the historical evidence of the end of sacrifice and oblation:
    "Forty years before the destruction of the Temple, the western light went out, the crimson thread remained crimson, and the lot for the Lord always came up in the left hand. They would close the gates of the Temple by night and get up in the morning and find them wide open" (Jacob Neusner, The Yerushalmi, p.156-157). [the Temple was destroyed in 70 CE]
    "Our rabbis taught: During the last forty years before the destruction of the Temple the lot ['For the Lord'] did not come up in the right hand; nor did the crimson-colored strap become white; nor did the western most light shine; and the doors of the Hekel [Temple] would open by themselves" (Soncino version, Yoma 39b).

    Here is the declaration that Jerusalem would be left desolate:

    Matthew 23:37-38
    37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
    38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.



    Here is the declaration of what was determined to be poured out on the desolate:

    Deuteronomy 28:63-64
    63 And it shall come to pass, that as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the Lord will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it.
    64 And the Lord shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.

    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    LIFETIME MEMBER jamie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beameup View Post
    Which explains why animal sacrifices are offered in Ezekiel from chapter 40 on. hahahahahahahaha
    The millennial Sabbath is not a day of salvation.

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    If you interpret those passages literally, then there is no Christianity. Read all of those verses carefully and see what it actually says. David will be the Prince over Israel forever. The twelve tribes and the Levitical priesthood will be restored. The Torah will be the law of Israel and must be obeyed. There will be sacrifices and the prince or David will have physical descendants, because it speaks of the laws of inheritance for the children of the prince. It also states that the prince offers sacrifices, not only for Israel but for himself, which flies in the face of Christianity's idea of Jesus being sinless.

    So if you insist on interpreting those passages at face value, literally, and not figuratively or spiritually, then you're in trouble as a Christian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RealityJerk View Post
    If you interpret those passages literally, then there is no Christianity. Read all of those verses carefully and see what it actually says. David will be the Prince over Israel forever. The twelve tribes and the Levitical priesthood will be restored. The Torah will be the law of Israel and must be obeyed. There will be sacrifices and the prince or David will have physical descendants, because it speaks of the laws of inheritance for the children of the prince. It also states that the prince offers sacrifices, not only for Israel but for himself, which flies in the face of Christianity's idea of Jesus being sinless.

    So if you insist on interpreting those passages at face value, literally, and not figuratively or spiritually, then you're in trouble as a Christian.
    All the first century Apostles observed christianity under these conditions, including going into the temple and performing sacrifices. They were Jews, and they were Christians.

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    Over 2500 post club beameup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealityJerk View Post
    If you interpret those passages literally, then there is no Christianity. Read all of those verses carefully and see what it actually says. David will be the Prince over Israel forever. The twelve tribes and the Levitical priesthood will be restored. The Torah will be the law of Israel and must be obeyed. There will be sacrifices and the prince or David will have physical descendants, because it speaks of the laws of inheritance for the children of the prince. It also states that the prince offers sacrifices, not only for Israel but for himself, which flies in the face of Christianity's idea of Jesus being sinless.

    So if you insist on interpreting those passages at face value, literally, and not figuratively or spiritually, then you're in trouble as a Christian.
    Those scriptures are for Israel, not for "the church".
    Israel will be fully restored to its fullest glory.
    The "church" (ie: Body of Christ) is an entirely separate entity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beameup View Post
    Those scriptures are for Israel, not for "the church".
    Israel will be fully restored to its fullest glory.
    The "church" (ie: Body of Christ) is an entirely separate entity.
    So according to your understanding, those who identify as Jews, along with those who are perhaps not identifying as Jews today, will become the 12 tribes of Israel in the future, living in the holy land? King David won't go to heaven, he's unsaved and still offering blood sacrifices for the sin of Israel, in a physical temple and offering sacrifices for himself? I don't see how you can reconcile these verses to Christian eschatology. A good case can be made for the body of Christ or the bride, being the Israel of God, not unbelieving Jews or anyone else.

    Not all who say they're Jews are actually Jews, much less actual, biological descendants of Isaac and Jacob. Even starting as early as the Exodus, we have a mixed multitude leaving Egypt, with Moses. Moses married a Cushite woman and also Ishmaelites/Midianites. Jethro and his daughters were non-Israelites and Jetho's daughters married into Israel. That has been the case for thousands of years. There is no actual bases for maintaning this ethnocentric, "pedigree" theory, of Israel being the descendants of Jacob. That hasn't been the case for thousands of years. It's a fantasy, a silly myth.

    The seed of Abraham that blesses the world, according to Paul is Christ. Christ is the vine and the unbelieving Jews were cut off from that vine. Wild branches or gentiles, were grafted into the vine, so now there is no Jew or Gentile in Messiah. The Israel of God, is the body of Messiah, comprised of every born again, regenerated, spirit filled believer. Your dispensationalism is un-biblical. According to the New Testament, there is no salvation outside of Christ. The temple was destroyed in 70ad, and that was the end of the mosaic covenant. A new and better covenant in Messiah was established.

    Ezekiel, like many other passages in the Old Testament are answered and clarified in the book of Revelation. The church is the temple, and there is no more need for a physical temple in earthly Jerusalem or Zion. We look above to heavenly Zion and Jerusalem, not an earthly one. You have been hoodwinked by dispensationalism and secular Zionism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RealityJerk View Post
    You have been hoodwinked by dispensationalism and secular Zionism.
    You have been consumed by Catholicism, specifically "Replacement Theology",
    dreamed up in the 4th century at the creation of the "Holy" Roman Church of Emperor Constantine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beameup View Post
    You have been consumed by Catholicism, specifically "Replacement Theology",
    dreamed up in the 4th century at the creation of the "Holy" Roman Church of Emperor Constantine.
    Nothing I've said is un-biblical. If it is, show me. I'll examine your argument. David isn't stuck down here on earth, offering animal sacrifices. That's nonsense.

    1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
    1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

    Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
    Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
    Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

    Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
    Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
    Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
    Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
    Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
    Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
    Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
    Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?


    They were cut off, but they can be grafted back, through faith in Christ.


    Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
    Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
    Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
    Rom 9:9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
    Rom 9:10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
    Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.
    Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
    Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
    Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
    Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
    Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
    Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
    Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
    Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
    Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
    Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
    Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
    Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
    Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
    Rom 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
    Rom 9:26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
    Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
    Rom 9:28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
    Rom 9:29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.
    Israel's Unbelief
    Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
    Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
    Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
    Rom 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


    It's pretty explicit, not much ambiguous wiggle room to conveniently explain it away. The remnant comprised of both Jews and Gentiles are saved and are truly Israel. It's not those who have been cut off through unbelief, but those who are in Christ, through faith. The temple described in Ezekiel, including all of the references to the law, to David their prince, to the sacrifices..etc, is explained in the book of revelation. That is the true interpretation of Ezekiel, not the dispensationalist one. David the prince, is actually symbolic of the Messiah. Just like Elijah described in:

    Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD

    Jesus interpreted this as referring to John The Baptist, not the literal Elijah. That's the true interpretation of the above passage. Jesus became sin for us on the cross. He offered himself as a sacrifice. So when you read that David is offering sacrifices for Israel and also for himself, it's referring to the work of Messiah on the cross. The temple, is the church, the remnant, that is attached to the vine. We are the Israel of God, and the unbelieving Jews are lost in their sins, cut off from the vine, until they repent and accept Messiah, as their Lord and Savior.

    That's not Catholic, that's just biblical.


    Last edited by RealityJerk; December 8th, 2017 at 04:55 AM. Reason: Typos

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    Quote Originally Posted by iouae View Post
    All the first century Apostles observed christianity under these conditions, including going into the temple and performing sacrifices. They were Jews, and they were Christians.


    The New Covenant was replacing the Old at that time, hence the apostles, as Jews, still kept the Mosaic Law (The day doesn't overtake the night, immediately. The sun rises gradually, until it overtakes the night). That all ended with the destruction of the temple in 70ad. That was the end of old covenant Israel, when the sceptre was passed from Judah to the Messiah:

    Gen 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

    Jesus is the apex of revelation. The consummation and fulfillment of all of Israel's promises and blessings. It's all complete in Christ. We who are grafted into the vine through faith in Jesus, along with the Jews who believe in Christ, are the Israel of God. The saved remnant.

    In Christ, there is no Jew or Gentile, the wall of separation is gone and we are now one people, one Israel, in Messiah.



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    Romans 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. 9:26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: 9:28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth. 9:29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha. 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

    What is that really all about?

    It is about God's faithfulness to His promises to Israel - but in His Own time.

    Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

    Back to Romans 9...

    Which is basically a series of reminders through examples from Israel's past wherein it had also looked as if God had been through with Israel, but had actually been doing some other thing first, prior to His outpouring of His wrath upon Israel for their disobedience, at last, prior to His following that with finally blessing them.

    That is the sense of all those examples, including the one he then goes into in verse 26.

    It...is not...talking about verse 25, but is actually returning to the thought in verse 22's answer to the prior verses - why God, though He could have because He is soverign (see the account of Pharoah, there,) has not only delayed His wrath upon Israel once more, prior to His blessing them.

    Verse 26 forward then lays out a series of examples from Israel's rebellious past, wherein God had "ALSO" not only delayed His wrath before, and prior to His finally blessing them, but had "SAID" to Israel He would do just that, that He might first do something else first.

    Paul's point in all that - which you Replacementists completely destroy - is that God IS faithful to what He had set out to do through a redeemed sons of Jacob, on this Earth one day.

    Paul is in fact continuing the very thought he first made mention of in the following...

    Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 3:2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

    What you Replacementists have done is just that - you have judged God - you have made Him out...a liar.

    Nevertheless, Romans 5:6-8 towards you.

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    Every nuance in Scripture is significant in its own right.

    Take the following for example...

    Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 3:2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

    What is this about that verse 3 is going on about?

    It is none other than the issue of what God has planned to do for Himself on this Earth one day, through a nation one day born again in a day: the nation Israel.

    It is the issue of none other than this here...

    Exodus 19:3 And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel; 19:4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself. 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

    The oracles of God - the Law's role in that, in that day?

    Deuteronomy 4:5 Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it. 4:6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people. 4:7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for? 4:8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?

    When will that be?

    Isaiah 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. 2:5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.

    "Because that unto them were committed - the oracles of God."

    Acts 17:11,12.

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    Over 2500 post club beameup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    The millennial Sabbath is not a day of salvation.
    The Millennium is the establishment of Israel under the rule of Yeshua Messiah.
    Memorial Sacrifices will be offered, by Levites, in the Temple, just as God promised Ezekiel.
    Israel shall become a Holy Nation, a Kingdom of Priests under the Priesthood of Melchizedek:
    ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
    and ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
    - Ezekiel 19:5b-6

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