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Thread: Is the Holy Spirit Female?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by chair View Post
    Here are some sources that will help you understand this:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shekhi...eminine_aspect

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    WatchmanOnTheWall (December 4th, 2017)

  3. #32
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    Yes, the idea of the female Shekhinah appears in Kabbalistic Judaism. I should have mentioned that myself.

    You can have a female "Holy Spirit", if you like. You can do what you like with the Trinity. I am not part of that discussion (not being Christian). I was only pointing out that Watchman is using Old Testament verses incorrectly.

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  5. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by chair View Post
    No. I have stated repeatedly that there is no pronoun in those verses.


    I have never said that the holy spirit is male. Again- there is no pronoun there. The text does not say "she" in the original. Your linear translation put that in to indicate gender. Did you notice how other translations, even on that same site, don't have a pronoun?

    Please note: I am not Christian. I am Jewish. The idea of the Holy Spirit being a person of any sex is foreign to me. I am fluent in reading both Modern and Biblical Hebrew. I speak Modern Hebrew every day, as I live in Israel.
    It says she because that is what is in the original text, just because you can't read or just want to ignore it for your own personal bizarre reason makes no sense, just like your argument that reduces the Holy Spirit to an inanimate object:

    http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...Tpdf/job33.pdf

    Job 33:4

    רוּח
    ruch
    spirit-of

    אֵ ל
    al
    El

    עָ שָׂ תְ נִ י
    oshth·ni
    SHE made me

    וְ נִ שְׁ מַ ת
    u·nshmth
    and breath of

    שַׁ דַּ י
    shdi
    Who Suffices

    תְּ חַ יֵּנִ י
    thchi·ni
    SHE is keeping alive me

  6. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    I said
    I can see the problem. Context context. Have you ever looked up the word folly?


    2 Cor 11:1-2
    1 Oh, that you would bear with me in a little folly-- and indeed you do bear with me.
    2 For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
    (NKJ)


    877 aphrosune (af-ros-oo'-nay);

    from 878; senselessness, i.e. (euphem.) egotism; (morally) recklessness:

    KJV-- folly, foolishly (-ness).

    It also fits with wild imagination.

    And in Eph That is to married men and their wives.
    Rather than lowering yourself to childish personal attacks try debating the OP, the Holy Spirit is called she every time in the OT here read:

    http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...Tpdf/job33.pdf

    Job 33:4

    רוּח
    ruch
    spirit-of

    אֵ ל
    al
    El

    עָ שָׂ תְ נִ י
    oshth·ni
    SHE made me

    וְ נִ שְׁ מַ ת
    u·nshmth
    and breath of

    שַׁ דַּ י
    shdi
    Who Suffices

    תְּ חַ יֵּנִ י
    thchi·ni
    SHE is keeping alive me

  7. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    The holy Spirit fathered Jesus.
    The Holy Spirit is described as she every time in the Old Testament:

    http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...Tpdf/job33.pdf

    Job 33:4

    רוּח
    ruch
    spirit-of


    אֵ ל
    al
    El

    עָ שָׂ תְ נִ י
    oshth·ni
    SHE made me

    וְ נִ שְׁ מַ ת
    u·nshmth
    and breath of

    שַׁ דַּ י
    shdi
    Who Suffices

    תְּ חַ יֵּנִ י
    thchi·ni
    SHE is keeping alive me

  8. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by WatchmanOnTheWall View Post
    It says she because that is what is in the original text...
    It doesn't. There is someone here who can't read, and it isn't me. At least when it comes to Hebrew.

    You may want to take a look at the introduction to the linear translation, which explains this.
    " Person, number, and gender. The person, number, and gender of all finite verbs are indicated by the use of pronouns as subjects, even when the subject is expressed by means of a noun or independent pronoun (e.g., Gen. 1:1 אלהים ברא [bra aleim], 'he-created God')."

    Can you point to the Hebrew word that is "she" in the text? Don't you wonder why the pronoun doesn't appear in normal translations?

    Since you don't trust me on this- go ask a Hebrew expert. A teacher, a professor. You are dependent on translations, which is problematic.

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    patrick jane (December 4th, 2017)

  10. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by chair View Post
    It doesn't. There is someone here who can't read, and it isn't me. At least when it comes to Hebrew.

    You may want to take a look at the introduction to the linear translation, which explains this.
    " Person, number, and gender. The person, number, and gender of all finite verbs are indicated by the use of pronouns as subjects, even when the subject is expressed by means of a noun or independent pronoun (e.g., Gen. 1:1 אלהים ברא [bra aleim], 'he-created God')."

    Can you point to the Hebrew word that is "she" in the text? Don't you wonder why the pronoun doesn't appear in normal translations?

    Since you don't trust me on this- go ask a Hebrew expert. A teacher, a professor. You are dependent on translations, which is problematic.
    Well I don't speak Hebrew (or live in Israel) I am very envious of you on both counts. I've read the introduction and looked at the chart but I will not pretend that I understand it fully. I may well go find someone who does speak Hebrew and ask them (although this won't be easy). I can see the prefix 'ni' but am only guessing the jot or tittle ' is what makes it a female pronoun?:

    עָ שָׂ תְ נִ י
    oshth·ni
    SHE made me

    תְּ חַ יֵּנִ י
    thchi·ni
    SHE is keeping alive me

  11. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by WatchmanOnTheWall View Post
    Rather than lowering yourself to childish personal attacks try debating the OP, the Holy Spirit is called she every time in the OT here read:

    http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...Tpdf/job33.pdf

    Job 33:4

    רוּח
    ruch
    spirit-of

    אֵ ל
    al
    El

    עָ שָׂ תְ נִ י
    oshth·ni
    SHE made me

    וְ נִ שְׁ מַ ת
    u·nshmth
    and breath of

    שַׁ דַּ י
    shdi
    Who Suffices

    תְּ חַ יֵּנִ י
    thchi·ni
    SHE is keeping alive me
    I said
    Where do you get personal attack??? I was showing you that Paul was using "folly" a wild exaggeration.

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    'Holy Spirit' in the NT Greek text is neuter and therefore the neuter pronouns meaning 'it,' 'itself,' are used with it in the NT Greek!

    Any strictly literal Bible translation would have to use 'it' for the holy spirit. Since it is really not a person, but God's active force -or power-, a literal translation would be helpful in this case.

    'Holy spirit' in the OT Hebrew text is in the feminine gender.

    "a 1. The Hebrew, like all Semitic languages, recognizes only two genders in the noun, a masculine and a feminine. Inanimate objects and abstract ideas, which other languages sometimes indicate by the neuter,
    are regarded in Hebrew as masculine or feminine, more often the latter [feminine]"! - Gesenius' Hebrew Grammar, p. 222, Oxford at the Clarendon Press, 1910. (also seventeenth edition)

    So, in the NT 'holy spirit' is neuter. And in the OT it is feminine (which is often used for neuter).
    And when we combine these two, we find that 'holy spirit' is certainly not in the masculine gender, but, instead, is neuter!


    "On the whole, the New Testament, like the Old, speaks of the Spirit as a divine energy or power." - A Catholic Dictionary.

    "The majority of NT texts reveal God's spirit as something, not someone" - New Catholic Encyclopedia, p. 575, Vol. 13, 1967.

    "In the NT there is no direct suggestion of a doctrine of the Trinity. The spirit is conceived as an impersonal power by which God effects his will through Christ." - An Encyclopedia of Religion, Ferm (ed.), p. 344.

    "It is important to realize that for the first Christians the Spirit was thought of in terms of divine power." - New Bible Dictionary, p. 1139, Tyndale House Publishers, 1984.

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    doesent Gen refer to Eve as Adams "helper". and later when Jesus asks the Father to sent the spirit He calls it "helper". just a thought.

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    Genesis refers to Eve as a help (ezer) for Adam. whereas the NT refers to the HS as a comforter or advocate (paraclete).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger 2 View Post
    'Holy Spirit' in the NT Greek text is neuter and therefore the neuter pronouns meaning 'it,' 'itself,' are used with it in the NT Greek!

    Any strictly literal Bible translation would have to use 'it' for the holy spirit. Since it is really not a person, but God's active force -or power-, a literal translation would be helpful in this case.

    'Holy spirit' in the OT Hebrew text is in the feminine gender.

    "a 1. The Hebrew, like all Semitic languages, recognizes only two genders in the noun, a masculine and a feminine. Inanimate objects and abstract ideas, which other languages sometimes indicate by the neuter,
    are regarded in Hebrew as masculine or feminine, more often the latter [feminine]"! - Gesenius' Hebrew Grammar, p. 222, Oxford at the Clarendon Press, 1910. (also seventeenth edition)

    So, in the NT 'holy spirit' is neuter. And in the OT it is feminine (which is often used for neuter).
    And when we combine these two, we find that 'holy spirit' is certainly not in the masculine gender, but, instead, is neuter!


    "On the whole, the New Testament, like the Old, speaks of the Spirit as a divine energy or power." - A Catholic Dictionary.

    "The majority of NT texts reveal God's spirit as something, not someone" - New Catholic Encyclopedia, p. 575, Vol. 13, 1967.

    "In the NT there is no direct suggestion of a doctrine of the Trinity. The spirit .
    you must be a bit wacky
    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    Christian theology isn't to be in Christ.


    So, what?

    believe it!

  17. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    I said
    Where do you get personal attack??? I was showing you that Paul was using "folly" a wild exaggeration.
    Doh sorry I thought you were implying my belief the Holy Spirit is female was due to me be foolish or my folly.
    Last edited by WatchmanOnTheWall; December 5th, 2017 at 10:21 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WatchmanOnTheWall View Post
    Doh sorry I thought you were implying my belief the Holy Spirit was due to me be foolish or my folly.
    I said
    That's ok.

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    Jesus was fathered by means of the power of his Spirit, which is holy.

    "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit." (Matthew 1:18)

    "But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, 'Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.'" (Matthew 1:20)

    The holy Spirit is defined as the power of the Most High.

    "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you" (Luke 1:35)

    The word power means force in Greek, not a person.

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