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Thread: What if climate change is real and human caused--what should Christians do about it?

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post


    You've obviously never lived in a city.

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    You obviously cannot think beyond the next 5 seconds.

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    Barbarian observes:
    Think of a square about 120m on a side.

    Stipe writes:
    That's what we have today. Using your number, which is not overly accurate.
    There's a principle in science, Stipe. It's used by anyone for whom precision matters. Goes like this:

    "Measure with a micrometer. Mark with a pencil. Cut with an axe."

    If that puzzles you, let me know and I'll explain it to you.

    Keep in mind, what we have today, involves massive famine in numberous areas, social upheaval caused by crowding and lack of resources, and so on.

    Those of us who are lucky enough to have a disproportionate amount of resources don't represent the norm. If we all shared equally, there's be enough.

    But socialism has its own issues. Might be easier to take control of our own fates, and not let nature decide how to reduce populations.
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gcthomas View Post
    Cities are surrounded by farmland for a reason, numpty.
    Then go live on a farm, dumpty.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Barbarian observes: Think of a square about 120m on a side.


    There's no helping you, is there?

    There's a principle in science, Stipe. It's used by anyone for whom precision matters. Goes like this:Measure with a micrometer. Mark with a pencil. Cut with an axe.If that puzzles you, let me know and I'll explain it to you.
    So why did you estimate 1.5 acres to be 10,000m2?

    Did you forget your own nonsense mantra?

    If we all shared equally, there's be enough. But socialism has its own issues. Might be easier to take control of our own fates, and not let nature decide how to reduce populations.
    You're a bundle of contradictions, aren't you?

    Guess where population control was practiced most aggressively?

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    Barbarian observes:
    If we all shared equally, there's be enough. But socialism has its own issues. Might be easier to take control of our own fates, and not let nature decide how to reduce populations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    You're a bundle of contradictions, aren't you?
    Sounds like Stipe realized the argument isn't going his way. Let's see what he comes up with.

    Guess where population control was practiced most aggressively?
    By nature. Malthus pointed out that all populations will tend to grow faster than the ability to feed them. So overpopulation will come to an end, either by nature killing people off through famine, disease or war (which is almost always over limited resources), or by humans taking charge of their own fates by keeping population in check.

    The good news is that as a population prospers, the fertility rate drops and approaches equilibrium. The bad news is that prosperity is not the norm in the world today.

    So there you are. One or the other, Stipe.
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    One or the other.
    What ultimatum are you pushing now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    What ultimatum are you pushing now?
    It's reality. Either we exercise some restraint, or nature will do it for us. No other alternatives.
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    It's reality. Either we exercise some restraint, or nature will do it for us. No other alternatives.
    How do we go about "exercising restraint"?

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    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.

    Blablaman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    How do we go about "exercising restraint"?

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    Isn't it obvious to anyone with at least half a brain?

    OK, for those with less than half a brain: stop stripping resources for short term financial gain and think long term; work to reduce environmental damage to maximise the abilities of future generations to manage crises; support the economic development of poor countries so that their populations will stabilise; stop propping up dictators that harm their national economic development; switch to low carbon technologies to reduce environmentally triggered population movements; support international bodies to mediate international disputes and shared resources.

    That'll do for a start. We need rich countries will low population growth that don't put short term gain above long term cooperative planning.
    We wunt be druv.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gcthomas View Post
    Isn't it obvious to anyone with at least half a brain?

    OK, for those with less than half a brain: stop stripping resources for short term financial gain and think long term; work to reduce environmental damage to maximise the abilities of future generations to manage crises; support the economic development of poor countries so that their populations will stabilise; stop propping up dictators that harm their national economic development; switch to low carbon technologies to reduce environmentally triggered population movements; support international bodies to mediate international disputes and shared resources.

    That'll do for a start. We need rich countries will low population growth that don't put short term gain above long term cooperative planning.
    And what do you propose be done to enforce all this?

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    -Bob B.

    Blablaman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    And what do you propose be done to enforce all this?

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    The Paris accord for one. A better run and funded World Bank. A reform of the UN to stop a few countries preserving their politicolegal dominance, Leaders of the large nations should realise that they should start leading, instead of pandering to the literary common denominator of uneducated isolationist political opinion.

    Really, the bodies to do this exist, with only political will the tricky thing to find. To much focus on short termism.
    We wunt be druv.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gcthomas View Post
    The Paris accord for one. A better run and funded World Bank. A reform of the UN to stop a few countries preserving their politicolegal dominance, Leaders of the large nations should realise that they should start leading, instead of pandering to the literary common denominator of uneducated isolationist political opinion.

    Really, the bodies to do this exist, with only political will the tricky thing to find. To much focus on short termism.
    What should be done to enforce your ideas?

    The Paris accords have nothing in the way of enforcement.

    Sent from my SM-A520F using TOL mobile app
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    Kick the clay that holds the teeth in
    Throw your trolls out the door

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.

    Blablaman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    What should be done to enforce your ideas?

    The Paris accords have nothing in the way of enforcement.

    Sent from my SM-A520F using TOL mobile app
    Leadership, not enforcement, is needed. The US is the only nation working against the Paris Agreement, now that every single other nation had signed up. US leadership would help it to work to it's fullest extent. The US presidency seems keen to undermine international political and economic relationships for the President's short term sacrifices to the batting crowds. A more intelligent man could have done some good work to help the world deal with future crises.
    We wunt be druv.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gcthomas View Post
    Leadership, not enforcement, is needed.
    Sounds like you want everyone to hold hands and just get along.

    To ensure compliance in the real world, enforcement is required.


    Sent from my SM-A520F using TOL mobile app
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    Kick the clay that holds the teeth in
    Throw your trolls out the door

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.

    Blablaman

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    Virtually all nations want to develop economically, which will develop a desire to look to the longer term. There is already an international back for funding development, international courts for punishing offending leaders, United Nations bodies for coordinating actions across the world. Encouragement and enablement and leadership will let you take countries along with you. Nationalism destroys all this, so it is sad to see the US abandoning it's leadership role for a more coercive approach to international relations.
    We wunt be druv.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Sounds like you want everyone to hold hands and just get along.

    To ensure compliance in the real world, enforcement is required.


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    Not likely to get any effective enforcement country v. country. Enforcement would need to be in the nature of $. Sanctions or benefits. Without the leadership of the economically developed countries that is not likely to happen. So what does that mean? Throw your hands in the air and let your god deal with it?
    The US should be at the forefront of attempts to deal with climate change. Our current White House resident is simply not smart enough, nor does he care enough. Although if there were some climate change solution he could brand with his name and add to his fortune, he would be in front.

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