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Thread: Righteousness and Justification by Faith

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by iouae View Post
    Many cannot reconcile James with Paul.

    Did Christ have faith? Yes.
    Did Christ also have works? Yes.

    Did Paul have faith? Yes.
    Did Paul have works? Yes.

    For someone supposedly against works, Paul worked pretty hard, and "boasted" about these.
    Paul went through hell for the sake of the Gospel. He traveled over 10,000 miles for over 20 years. There are monuments to Paul that can be seen today up along the Mediterranean coast as a tribute to his dedication to Christ and his Gospel. Paul had a right to boast, but I don't think that he did to glorify himself. Everything was for the sake of the Gospel.

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    Over 4000 post club Epoisses's Avatar
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    Any Calvinist can say they are justified by faith but then they ordain homosexuals and reject large chunks of the bible and turn the gospel into a Roulette wheel at Vegas. They're experts at talking religion and playing church but they have no real experience like AMR. He's a career religionist just like the career politician who will say, do, believe anything to get some votes.

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    LIFETIME MEMBER meshak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Epoisses View Post
    Any Calvinist can say they are justified by faith but then they ordain homosexuals .


    I never heard that.

    Where did you get this information?
    If you want to be true to God and Jesus, abandon any kind of violence at all cost. By advocating any kind of violence, you are misrepresenting Christianity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iouae View Post
    Many cannot reconcile James with Paul.

    Did Christ have faith? Yes.
    Did Christ also have works? Yes.

    Did Paul have faith? Yes.
    Did Paul have works? Yes.

    For someone supposedly against works, Paul worked pretty hard, and "boasted" about these.
    James 2 is nothing more than their (James 1:1's believing members of "the Twelve Tribes of Israel...scattered abroad" in Acts 8:1) Romans 6.

    James 2 is nothing more than their version of Romans 6.

    Same principle; different application, Romans 4.

    Nothing more, nothing less.

    Nevertheless, Rom. 14:5 - in memory of Rom. 5:6-8 in each our stead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by meshak View Post
    [/B]

    I never heard that.

    Where did you get this information?
    Often, when I run across one assertion or another, I'll just copy and paste its words in Google, just to see what comes up.

    Try that - Google the words "ordain homosexuals."

    Of course, you will then run across all sorts of sound and unsound assertions, but you will at least become a bit more familiar with the assertion being made.

    Rom. 5:6-8.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Your Calvinist God will not allow you understand the Gospel.

    In the New Testament God remains in heaven, it is the Son that comes into the world as the new Adam to do for humanity what humanity cannot do for its self. This is why Jesus is the savior of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. Jesus provides salvation for everyone, Hebrews 2:9.

    We are justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus, who is God the Son. God the Father remains in heaven. I have shown you two scriptures that say Jesus is the justifier, you don't believe either one of them. Jesus in our name and on our behalf has fulfilled the law, Matthew 5:18 and has atoned for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. Unfortunately your Calvinist God will not allow you to believe that.
    You teach that sinners Christ lived and died for are lost and condemned still!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Paul went through hell for the sake of the Gospel. He traveled over 10,000 miles for over 20 years. There are monuments to Paul that can be seen today up along the Mediterranean coast as a tribute to his dedication to Christ and his Gospel. Paul had a right to boast, but I don't think that he did to glorify himself. Everything was for the sake of the Gospel.
    You don't believe the Gospel. How could you when you believe sinners Christ shed His Blood for arw lost. How is that the good news of the Gospel?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Paul went through hell for the sake of the Gospel. He traveled over 10,000 miles for over 20 years. There are monuments to Paul that can be seen today up along the Mediterranean coast as a tribute to his dedication to Christ and his Gospel. Paul had a right to boast, but I don't think that he did to glorify himself. Everything was for the sake of the Gospel.
    Paul is held up as the poster child for "no-works" Christianity.

    Yet note how he worked as a Christian. My point is that folks misread Paul. He never punted "no-works" Christianity. What he pushed was that even if one worked as hard as he (Paul) did, even that would not save one. Only faith in Christ saves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    James 2 is nothing more than their (James 1:1's believing members of "the Twelve Tribes of Israel...scattered abroad" in Acts 8:1) Romans 6.

    James 2 is nothing more than their version of Romans 6.

    Same principle; different application, Romans 4.

    Nothing more, nothing less.

    Nevertheless, Rom. 14:5 - in memory of Rom. 5:6-8 in each our stead.
    Are you for or against a Christian working as hard as Paul did?

  11. #25
    LIFETIME MEMBER meshak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iouae View Post
    Paul is held up as the poster child for "no-works" Christianity.
    indeed, that's why I say he is not such a good teacher. He sends a mixed messages and confusion.

    God is not of confusion.

    It seems Jesus and Paul's word are so different. Jesus emphasizes being faithful to Him until end and Paul is no works.
    If you want to be true to God and Jesus, abandon any kind of violence at all cost. By advocating any kind of violence, you are misrepresenting Christianity.

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    I have my doubts as to whether Brinsmead wrote that. Brinsmead was not an advocate of Calvinism.

    On the day of Pentecost Peter preached the Gospel for the very first time. Those that heard and believed were saved, some of who had participated in the crucifixion of Christ, Acts 2:36. Over 8,000 Jews became Christians because they heard and believed the Gospel. "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" Romans 10:17, which is the Gospel. I don't believe anything above, it is all hogwash.
    No matter, Robert. Think what you will about Brinsmead. You need to do more honest assessment of the man, who ultimately abandoned all faith.

    http://www.lifeassuranceministries.o...brinsmead.html
    http://www.bobbrinsmead.com/t_archive.html

    That said, the primary issue at hand is my earlier post:
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...34#post5144434

    Since that post all you have done is to move on to more citations of Scripture while avoiding the essence of that post. When will you actually provide a direct response to the correction offered to your erroneous interpretation of the passage in question?

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    Quote Originally Posted by meshak View Post
    indeed, that's why I say he is not such a good teacher. He sends a mixed messages and confusion.
    Or, another possibility is that he is a brilliant teacher, and we are not such good students.

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    LIFETIME MEMBER meshak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iouae View Post
    Or, another possibility is that he is a brilliant teacher, and we are not such good students.
    Jesus does not advocate, "brilliant faith."

    Jesus tells us to have childlike faith. Children are not brilliant.

    You are right, we are not such good students. That's why he should not sends confused messages.
    If you want to be true to God and Jesus, abandon any kind of violence at all cost. By advocating any kind of violence, you are misrepresenting Christianity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by meshak View Post
    indeed, that's why I say he is not such a good teacher. He sends a mixed messages and confusion.

    God is not of confusion.

    It seems Jesus and Paul's word are so different. Jesus emphasizes being faithful to Him until end and Paul is no works.
    You blasphemy speaking ill of Paul's words in the Bible.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iouae View Post
    Paul is held up as the poster child for "no-works" Christianity.

    Yet note how he worked as a Christian. My point is that folks misread Paul. He never punted "no-works" Christianity. What he pushed was that even if one worked as hard as he (Paul) did, even that would not save one. Only faith in Christ saves.
    You are right, Paul worked hard for Jesus, because faith alone is dead, and those who are given much, much more is demanded.

    Acts 9:16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name."
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
    Do not just read the word do it.

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