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Thread: Scripture. What is considered Scripture?

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    Old Timer RealityJerk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I believe that I am born again and I accept the Bible as the Word of God. I am a Jew, a proselyte and a convert to Judaism and Israel. I accept the Torah, the TaNaK, and Matthew through Revelation. I accept Yeshua as the Messiah. The Torah is the Word of God. The TaNaK is the Word of God. It is important to be able to think about what you read.

    Believing something, doesn't make it true.

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    LIFETIME MEMBER Bright Raven's Avatar
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    Genesis through Revelation
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    Saying "Genesis through Revelation", doesn't make Genesis through Revelation, the infallible word of almighty God, anymore than a Muslim saying "Quran chapter 1 to Quran chapter 114", makes the Quran God's word.

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    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    Two things to consider:
    1) The Greek compound word godbreathed does not necessarily mean that God breathed the words. A compound word is not defined by its two roots. Are you aware that the early church fathers considered many non-canonical writings inspired.
    2) if you will take a thorough look at the passage from 2 Peter, you will see that it is not about scripture in its entirety. It refers to the prophecies of scripture spoken by people when moved by the Holy Spirit.

    It is important to know scripture, and it is also important to recognize what it really says and claims about itself.

    The first chapter of Luke provides an excellent example:
    Since many have undertaken to set down an orderly account of the events that have been fulfilled among us, 2 just as they were handed on to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and servants of the word, 3 I too decided, after investigating everything carefully from the very first, to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the truth concerning the things about which you have been instructed.

    Luke says he decided to write the gospel. It was not a divine revelation—it was the result of his thorough investigation. That is why there are minor, insignificant differences in the details between Luke and the other gospels. If God had breathed every word into Luke’s pen, there would be no factual differences between the synoptic gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke).
    I disagree with you. But you have given me some things to think about. Have you considered what a prophecy of Scripture is?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RealityJerk View Post
    Believing something, doesn't make it true.
    Correct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    Genesis through Revelation
    Is this with or without the designations Old Covenant and New Covenant or Old Testament and New Testament? I accept the TaNaK and Matthew through Revelation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I disagree with you. But you have given me some things to think about. Have you considered what a prophecy of Scripture is?
    Yes, it is a prophecy recorded in scripture.

    And scripture simply means writing, unless the context implies sacred writings.

    A sermon or a document can include the Word of God, and that doesn’t mean every word of the sermon or document is God speaking.

    The “Word of God”is not a synonym for “Bible.” To text that, try taking every instance of the term “Word of God” from the Book of Acts and substituting the word Bible in its place. You will see the passages become nonsense.

    The term Word of God in scripture has three meanings:
    1) The message of God for mankind
    2) A particular message from God (e.g., “the word of God came to...”)
    3) The message of God incarnate, Jesus The Messiah, who was the embodiment of the Word of God — and those who saw Him saw the Father

    To elevate every word of the Bible to “The Word of God” is not a teaching of scripture, and it tends to inappropriately deify a book which contains the Word of God but is not, in its entirety, the Word of God.

    We should turn our eyes upon Jesus.

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    I meant to test that, not to text that. I suppose I will have the ability to edit my posts after a probationary period on the forum.

    See if these verses from Acts make sense if you replace “Word of God” with “Bible.”

    When they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God with boldness.

    Acts 6:2 And the twelve called together the whole community of the disciples and said, “It is not right that we should neglect the word of God in order to wait on tables.

    Acts 6:7 The word of God continued to spread; the number of the disciples increased greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests became obedient to the faith.

    Acts 8:14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them.

    Acts 11:1 [ Peter’s Report to the Church at Jerusalem ] Now the apostles and the believers who were in Judea heard that the Gentiles had also accepted the word of God.

    Acts 12:24 But the word of God continued to advance and gain adherents.

    Acts 13:5 When they arrived at Salamis, they proclaimed the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews. And they had John also to assist them.

    Acts 13:7 He was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, an intelligent man, who summoned Barnabas and Saul and wanted to hear the word of God.

    Acts 13:46 Then both Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken first to you. Since you reject it and judge yourselves to be unworthy of eternal life, we are now turning to the Gentiles.

    Acts 17:13 But when the Jews of Thessalonica learned that the word of God had been proclaimed by Paul in Beroea as well, they came there too, to stir up and incite the crowds.

    Acts 18:11 He stayed there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them

    Recall that the Bible, as you have it, did not exist at that time.

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  13. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    I have noticed that people sometimes tend to pad the resume of the Bible, imagining it to be infallible and defining every word in it to be the Word of God. The Bible never made those claims for itself.
    Give the scripture that says that.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    We are to love and follow the Lord.
    You wouldn't know anything about the Lord if it weren't for the scriptures.
    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    Do you still maintain that Jesus quoted the OT in John 7?
    According to you, what the scripture says Jesus said might be wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    I will find a quote that might help and post it.
    I don't need your help.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    Here is the quote:

    “In short, the Scriptures, according to the early Fathers, are indeed inspired, but that is not the reason they are authoritative. They are authoritative, and hence canonical, because they are the extant literary deposit of the direct and indirect apostolic witness on which the later witness of the Church depends.”

    Excerpt From
    The Canon of the New Testament: Its Origin, Development, and Significance
    Bruce M Metzger
    https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/the...06791592?mt=11
    This material may be protected by copyright.
    I couldn't care any less what that person has to say. Unless he wants to debate here.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RealityJerk View Post
    Saying "Genesis through Revelation", doesn't make Genesis through Revelation, the infallible word of almighty God, anymore than a Muslim saying "Quran chapter 1 to Quran chapter 114", makes the Quran God's word.
    If you had God's Truth you would know the Holy Bible is true.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    I meant to test that, not to text that. I suppose I will have the ability to edit my posts after a probationary period on the forum.

    See if these verses from Acts make sense if you replace “Word of God” with “Bible.”

    When they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God with boldness.

    Acts 6:2 And the twelve called together the whole community of the disciples and said, “It is not right that we should neglect the word of God in order to wait on tables.

    Acts 6:7 The word of God continued to spread; the number of the disciples increased greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests became obedient to the faith.

    Acts 8:14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them.

    Acts 11:1 [ Peter’s Report to the Church at Jerusalem ] Now the apostles and the believers who were in Judea heard that the Gentiles had also accepted the word of God.

    Acts 12:24 But the word of God continued to advance and gain adherents.

    Acts 13:5 When they arrived at Salamis, they proclaimed the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews. And they had John also to assist them.

    Acts 13:7 He was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, an intelligent man, who summoned Barnabas and Saul and wanted to hear the word of God.

    Acts 13:46 Then both Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken first to you. Since you reject it and judge yourselves to be unworthy of eternal life, we are now turning to the Gentiles.

    Acts 17:13 But when the Jews of Thessalonica learned that the word of God had been proclaimed by Paul in Beroea as well, they came there too, to stir up and incite the crowds.

    Acts 18:11 He stayed there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them

    Recall that the Bible, as you have it, did not exist at that time.
    The New Testament is the written Word of God, so why would your test be a reasonable test?

    All the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    The New Testament is the written Word of God, so why would your test be a reasonable test?

    All the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed.
    I understand that you have been taught that the New Testament, in its entirety, is the Word of God. Are you aware that you cannot find that teaching presented in the Bible?

    I love the scriptures and follow Jesus. I don’t believe we need to make up claims for the Bible that it does not make for itself, do you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    I couldn't care any less what that person has to say. Unless he wants to debate here.
    To ignore the resources that God has made available to you could be something like saying “don’t confuse me with the facts, I know what I believe.”

    Metzger was the leading expert on the canon and textual criticism in the past 40 years.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_M._Metzger

    In the parable of the talents, Jesus taught that the Father requires us to make use of the resources He provides. Do you really not care about that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Give the scripture that says that.


    You wouldn't know anything about the Lord if it weren't for the scriptures.

    According to you, what the scripture says Jesus said might be wrong.



    I don't need your help.
    I will just focu on your third sentence for now. There are a few places in scripture where Jesus was misquoted. This is clear from the synoptic gospels. In a few cases Matthew, Mark, and Luke disagree on what Jesus said. Have you not noticed that in your studies?

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