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Thread: Scripture. What is considered Scripture?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judson50 View Post
    Scripture is anything that is θεόπνευστος
    Or “God Breathed” or “breathed out by God”.

    When Paul wrote the word “scripture” in 2 Tim 3:16 he was referring directly to the Old Testament (TaNaKh).


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    In 1 Timothy 5:18 Paul joins a New Testament scripture (Luke 10:7) to an Old Testament scripture (Deuteronomy 25:4) and calls them both scripture. In addition, we can see in 2 Peter 3:15-16 Peter recognizes what Paul writes as scripture.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    So what are you saying?
    I am saying that people in modern churches see the word “Scripture” and immediately think “Bible,” and that is inconsistent with what Scripture (graphe) meant in the first century.

    I hope that clarifies.

    The ubiquitous mistranslation of 1 Timothy 3 contributes to this. A better translation is “Every Scripture inspired by God is profitable...” It is the same form in Greek as “every good tree bears...” (which was not mistranslated “every tree is good and bears...”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Judson50 View Post
    Scripture is anything that is θεόπνευστος
    Or “God Breathed” or “breathed out by God”.

    When Paul wrote the word “scripture” in 2 Tim 3:16 he was referring directly to the Old Testament (TaNaKh).


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    Yes, Paul (or whoever wrote 1 Timothy) was referring to the sacred writings Timothy had known from his youth, which would have been what we call the Old Testament.

    I note that defining a compound word by its roots can lead to misunderstandings and errors, and that is why the compound Koine Greek word is often translated “inspired.”

    We don’t declare “understand” to mean “assume an erect posture below,” and we don’t declare a butterfly is a fly made of butter.

    Are you aware that early church writers considered many writings outside the canon inspired?

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    In 1 Timothy 5:18 Paul joins a New Testament scripture (Luke 10:7) to an Old Testament scripture (Deuteronomy 25:4) and calls them both scripture. In addition, we can see in 2 Peter 3:15-16 Peter recognizes what Paul writes as scripture.
    They are both scripture, which means writings.

    In John 7, Jesus quotes scripture that is not found in the Bible:As the scripture has said, "Out of the believer's heart (belly) shall flow rivers of living water.' "

    Here Jesus quotes scripture not in the canon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    They are both scripture, which means writings.

    In John 7, Jesus quotes scripture that is not found in the Bible:As the scripture has said, "Out of the believer's heart (belly) shall flow rivers of living water.' "

    Here Jesus quotes scripture not in the canon.
    No, it's more like to say that,

    "The Bible says that you shouldn't put the Lord's name in mouth only". Jesus is talking the how the water coming from rocks. It's rather a summary of several verses, and could possibly expressed in Greek in that scenario.

    "The Bible says" or "The Scripture says" isn't necessarily a direct quote but can be an explanation or summary or interpretation depending on situations. Especially under the circumstance that Greek is used to do so with the original verses in Hebrew.

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    Hawkins, we will have to agree to disagree on that point in several aspects. To me, this is clearly Jesus quoting scripture that has been lost.

    Also, this is not about water coming from rocks. It is about living water coming from the believer. Some would say this is a reference to the Holy Spirit.

    Many writings referred to in the Bible have been lost, such as the letter Paul wrote to Corinth before the letter we call 1 Corinthians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    Hawkins, we will have to agree to disagree on that point in several aspects. To me, this is clearly Jesus quoting scripture that has been lost.

    Also, this is not about water coming from rocks. It is about living water coming from the believer. Some would say this is a reference to the Holy Spirit.

    Many writings referred to in the Bible have been lost, such as the letter Paul wrote to Corinth before the letter we call 1 Corinthians.
    There is no "OT lost writings" from the perspective of OT Canon.

    It's not proper to get to conclude that "the verse is not in the Canon" even in the case of missing writings. It is because even when it is a direct quote and the writings are missing, those verses can still be inside the Canon. They are inside the Canon but the original canonical writings are lost. So it's never proper to say that "the verses are not in the Canon".

    Jesus was actually extending the OT verses to imply that He's the source of living water. It is because that it is an implication that it is not necessarily be a direct quote.

    The following is a reference from a commentary about John 7:38.


    College Press NIV Commentary:

    In Jesus’ day the Jerusalem celebration of Tabernacles involved a daily fetching of water from the Pool of Siloam in a golden pitcher, and a ritual pouring out of the water at the temple altar. The purpose of this ceremony was to remind the nation of Israel of God’s miraculous provision of water out of rocks while they were in the desert wilderness (Exod 17:1-7; Num 20:1-11; cf. Deut 8:15; Wisdom 11:4). But for the Jews God’s supplying of water was more than a past, historical event tied to the wilderness experience. The Scriptures repeatedly portrayed God as the one who provides spiritual water to the spiritually thirsty and looked ahead to a time when there would be an ultimate fulfillment of this thirst-quenching. Notice these texts (as well as Ps 107:9; Isa 35:7; cf. Rev 7:14,17; 21:6):
    For I will pour water on the thirsty land,
    and streams on the dry ground;
    I will pour out my Spirit on your offspring,
    and my blessing on your descendants.
    Isaiah 44:3
    Come all you who are thirsty,
    Come to the waters;
    and you who have no money,
    come, buy and eat!
    Isaiah 55:1
    Jesus echoes Isaiah when he announces, “If a man is thirsty, let him come to me and drink.” John weaves his editorial guidance into the words of Jesus to teach us that neither Tabernacles nor the offer of Jesus were really about water, but about the [Holy] Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive.
    Jesus ties this together by describing his offer of water/Spirit as having a scriptural antecedent, streams of living water will flow from within him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    They are both scripture, which means writings.
    It means writings from God.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    In John 7, Jesus quotes scripture that is not found in the Bible:As the scripture has said, "Out of the believer's heart (belly) shall flow rivers of living water.' "

    Here Jesus quotes scripture not in the canon.
    There is Old Testament scripture that says that.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
    Do not just read the word do it.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkins View Post
    No, it's more like to say that,

    "The Bible says that you shouldn't put the Lord's name in mouth only". Jesus is talking the how the water coming from rocks. It's rather a summary of several verses, and could possibly expressed in Greek in that scenario.

    "The Bible says" or "The Scripture says" isn't necessarily a direct quote but can be an explanation or summary or interpretation depending on situations. Especially under the circumstance that Greek is used to do so with the original verses in Hebrew.
    Living waters is reference to the Holy Spirit.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Living waters is reference to the Holy Spirit.
    I am not disagreeing with that.

    John 7:37 (NIV2011)
    37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink.

    Jesus said in a loud voice, "come to ME". God is the source of living water. In that scenario the "me" can well be Jesus Himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkins View Post
    I am not disagreeing with that.

    John 7:37 (NIV2011)
    37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink.

    Jesus said in a loud voice, "come to ME". God is the source of living water. In that scenario the "me" can well be Jesus Himself.
    I am not sure what you are saying. Jesus is God. Jesus is the Living Water and he gives the Living Water.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    It means writings from God.



    There is Old Testament scripture that says that.
    Please quote the OT scripture.

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    Hawkins, you wrote There is no "OT lost writings" from the perspective of OT Canon.

    What about the Book of Jasher/Jashar, mentioned in 2 Samuel 1?

    Then David called one of the young men and said, "Come here and strike him down." So he struck him down and he died. 16 David said to him, "Your blood be on your head; for your own mouth has testified against you, saying, "I have killed the Lord's anointed.' " 17 David intoned this lamentation over Saul and his son Jonathan. 18 (He ordered that The Song of the Bow be taught to the people of Judah; it is written in the Book of Jashar.) He said: 19 Your glory, O Israel, lies slain upon your high places! How the mighty have fallen! 20 Tell it not in Gath, proclaim it not in the streets of Ashkelon; or the daughters of the Philistines will rejoice, the daughters of the uncircumcised will exult. 21 You mountains of Gilboa, let there be no dew or rain upon you, nor bounteous fields! For there the shield of the mighty was defiled, the shield of Saul, anointed with oil no more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Shalom.

    Scripture. What is considered Scripture?

    Shalom.

    Jacob
    Scripture is the accumulated writings of holy men. Holy men decide what goes in or out. Because they rely on the scripture for their authority, they claim God wrote what they wrote. The common bible is comprised of 66 books finalized by a council of the RCC which considered itself inerrant.

    "Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evil doing of his ancestors."UB

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    Hawkins, and what of this lost book?

    1 Kings 11:41 NRSA
    https://www.biblestudytools.com/nrsa/1-kings/11-41.html
    41 Now the rest of the acts of Solomon, all that he did as well as his wisdom, are they not written in the Book of the Acts of Solomon?

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