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Thread: Scripture. What is considered Scripture?

  1. #2281
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    That's why I STILL wonder about your grades. STILL.

    It's actually kind of you to suggest he might not be very smart, because the fact is his spirit is evil. His mission is to attack the gospel, and now to attack the veracity of the Bible. He is out to sow dissension. He can call it whatever he wants, but it's clear what his goals are. They are to make men question God's word.

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    Over 4000 post club daqq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    It doesn’t solve problems.
    Lol, but you do not desire to see any of the problems on your list get solved or resolved: otherwise your reason for "being"(here) would no longer "be".

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    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    Lol, but you do not desire to see any of the problems on your list get solved or resolved: otherwise your reason for "being"(here) would no longer "be".
    Yep. He's on a mission, and it isn't one for the Lord.

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    Over 4000 post club daqq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Yep. He's on a mission, and it isn't one for the Lord.
    Wow, I must say that I never even thought of it that way. How does one defend such a position from the stance of a calling? Can you imagine someone saying, "The Lord has sent me to inform you all that His Word is full of errors"???

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    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    Wow, I must say that I never even thought of it that way. How does one defend such a position from the stance of a calling? Can you imagine someone saying, "The Lord has sent me to inform you all that His Word is full of errors"???
    Well, his last thread was attacking the Gospel. What a mission that was, and it turned out so well, didn't it?


    There are probably three main missions for the ministers of satan.

    1. Attack God's written word.

    2. Attack the Gospel.

    3. Attack the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ.

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  11. #2286
    TOL Subscriber Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    You are never going to get any traction pretending I did poorly in school, as I graduated with honors from the fourth ranked engineering school in the United States. Then I had a successful business career. So you certainly failed in these attempts.
    Not when I'm not the only one, I haven't.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    I am not sure why you call me a charismatic. I recognize those gifts haven’t passed away. I don’t have any of the gifts typically classified as charismatic.
    Er, I have you on record believing he raised Walter from the dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    But I suppose these are all distraction techniques, since you cannot take a position on the errors in the text other than “don’t look at them. End of story.” That is a very bad combination of naive, arrogant, and irresponsible. It doesn’t solve problems.
    See me? BLUE in the face. Understand that? Tell me you can at least comprehend that much. Please tell me you can. Surely at least ONE "A" should be able to accomplish that?
    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    I don’t know who reported you. It certainly wasn’t me.

    I am certain avoiding openly and honestly discussing the scriptures is worse than any discussion of natural occurrences.
    Me too! I'm concerned over 'honest' discusion, AS WELL AS your ACTUAL academic prowess. It is evident to all on here. I don't believe anyone can hide this. Certainly not you.

    The report was just silly. If they do it enough, they can get an infraction for that too. Somewhere there is a thread that makes fun of people who post reports that don't break TOL rules. The rating here is PG, not PG-13 or R. He'll have to catch on or enjoy a bit of time off. Why in the world are you responding to a post that wasn't sent to you? I truly have to wonder about those grades, Cobra. It 'shouldn't' be an issue, but it is, especially when you don't play by 'conventional' rules.

    Just about everyone can tell you, say within 15 points what my IQ is. They can also tell you what they believe my grades were and be fairly close. Not every of course, but most? Yeah, I think they can. I think 'your' academic prowess is evident here as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    No, I wasn’t brutalized. I am not indignant. I repeated those points because of that they revealed about Lon.
    Ahem "Defamation" of character. " Yeah, look at Lon, He is incredibly smarter than I am, but he isn't nice, so I have to do something else unscrupulous to 'try' to get people to listen to me" Do you 'enjoy' returning what you imagine evil, for evil or just like to do it so you can try and claim high ground through manipulation? Just a posturing fest then, isn't? That all you are interested in?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    If I recall correctly, Lon did try to explain the animals. I believe he said that Jesus sent them for one animal and that Jesus rode one animal.

    He implicitly declared Matthew in error.
    NOT "A" material. I'd even suggest getting it wrong is D or F worthy. In order for someone to 'believe' academic prowess, you must 'show' academic prowess. Go ahead and hold that against me and be SURE to 'quote me without context.' You haven't taken the high road. This isn't a 'noble' discussion OR debate tactic.
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

  12. #2287
    TOL Subscriber Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Well, his last thread was attacking the Gospel. What a mission that was, and it turned out so well, didn't it?


    There are probably three main missions for the ministers of satan.

    1. Attack God's written word.

    2. Attack the Gospel.

    3. Attack the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ.
    4. Attack and destroy His people.
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    4. Attack and destroy His people.
    If it were possible. It isn't, however.

    It's just a reminder to put on the whole armour of God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Faith in God is based on His word, and you have no faith in His word, so your "faith" is based on your own understanding. Which is why you are still lost and seeking....
    au contraire.

    I have great faith His Word, (both of them). I just don't go around saying "you have no faith in His word" were I to mean "you have no faith in His Bible."

    I've spoken before about black and white thinking. But we haven't discussed the Invisible Words Syndrome. This is when one reads or speaks a particular word, and yet invisibly substitutes a different word up inside his or her head for the meaning. You say 'word' but you mean 'Bible'.

    So.. here's what you truly meant to say...

    Faith in God is based on His word Bible, and you have no faith in His word Bible, ...
    And this is correct. I have no faith in a book whose contents was selected by Catholic Bishops (and a particular Catholic Bishop) back in 367 AD.

    Why do you? Why do you, gldz, have faith in Catholic Bishops?

    That always puzzles me.

    Zenn
    It is difficult to be reasonable with those who cannot reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    He has gotten a number of 'invalid' answers others believe valid

    He's your friend. Of course you want to stand up for him. Very noble Nice try
    You are reducing the conversation to partisan politics to avoid speaking about the facts and the issue. Nice try.

    HEY you are a conservative !!

    (Good luck with that.)
    .

    Zenn

    ... and those c minuses.
    It is difficult to be reasonable with those who cannot reason.

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    Over 4000 post club daqq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenn View Post
    Your imputed abuse is in your head.
    You are abusing those who disagree with you right here in this thread: taking their words and twisting them to suit your arguments and to make yourself look superior at their expense. Did you never stop to think that perhaps that is why you get the "daqq-enese"? Even one of your own, Watchman, has said that "daqq" can speak clearly when he wants to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenn View Post
    I have had discourse with hundreds if not thousands of Christians, and I can truthfully say that your position and ... uh... presentation is rather unique, though considerably incomprehensible. Having been an editor, albeit for a brief period of time, I would not want to touch any manuscript you might submit. My apologies if you've become offended over the quip 'daqq-enese', but unless you really want to remain an audience of one unto yourself, you have got to drop the pretense of being something 'special' because you're the only one who understands your 'special' vocabulary (and to hell with everybody else). It is a poor author who blames his readers for not understanding what he writes.
    As also said to Cobra, thank goodness you were not an end-of-the-first-century or second century scribe: for no doubt you would have taken it upon yourself to play "editor", no doubt even "special editor", since you fancy yourself as having a better understanding of Zechariah than even the author of Matthew, (I know, you say authors, plural, to minimize the gravity of your heresy, but I do not).

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenn View Post
    Yes, much of what you have said is scattered.
    You keep forcing that to be the case by your own assumptions and statements as you speak as if you know what you speak of when you do not. For instance you now introduce a juxtaposition between blood sacrifices and something you call the "smoke that comes from the glory of God", and then you say, "These are not even addressing the same topic, daqq. So yes, I question your interpretation abilities." But if I was to try and explain, you already know that I am forced to explain by way of what is written, the scripture, and if indeed I did then the vicious circle turns once again and you would no doubt accuse me again of being all over the place with the same inane retort once again, "Much of what you have said is scattered", etc., etc., etc., blah, blah, blah. You want to have your cake and eat it too, but the answers are scattered because your own discourse and accusations are all over the board: you fade out of one topic or context and into another in one breath, just as you accuse when you do not like the answer(s).

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenn View Post
    And here is a good example. Your reference to Lev 16:14 → Luk 11:20 is quite a stretch. You have compared the finger of a priest applying ritual blood to the finger of God, when Jesus was speaking of the power of the Holy Spirit to actually cast out demons. (You've never have actually met a real demon, have you?) One might better compare the finger of God with the finger of God Exo 31:18 → Luk 11:20.

    That said, your comparison of Lev 16:17 → Rev 15:8 is equally obtuse, in that one speaks of blood sacrifices, and the other speaks of smoke that comes from the glory of God. These are not even addressing the same topic, daqq. So yes, I question your interpretation abilities.

    I have had numerous conversations with Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses and others where these esoteric comparisons of interpretation were rather incomprehensible. So... if your identity is intrinsically intertwined with your 'special' revelation, then I understand the anxiety that shows in your posts. But you are quick to take offense, and really shouldn't be involved in these kinds of discussions. While you may think you have "walked in the way" long enough to understand your unique perspective, you have not "walked in the way" long enough to present them with any measure of clarity. If you yourself needed direct revelation (to understand whatever the heck it is you're talking about), then don't be upset if others do too.

    Zenn

    PS: And contrary to your sputtering, I did notice you were trying to defend Matthew by saying he was only quoting Zechariah. But, again, you didn't sufficiently present your case, and Matthew wasn't 'just' quoting Zechariah. He presented a narrative of action and linked this back to a prophetic utterance.
    That is really all just your opinion with a couple extra heapings of slather on top of opinion and some boasting on the side. One thing though, is it my fault that all you can see in Lev 16 are blood sacrifices? Read on into the next chapter: who is the One whose name is the Door? And what does it say about goats in Lev 17:7 KJV? Do you suppose the Prophets never noticed such things or wrote about them? such as in Isaiah 34 or Daniel 8? You only see blood sacrifices in Lev 16 because that is the only thing you are capable of seeing: but that does not make it so, and that you do despite what the Prophets and the Writings, (especially Psalms), tell you in other places which refute your understanding. Moreover the censers of Korah and those about him were brass, even the 250 censers of those who offered incense and died: but because they offered before the LORD, even though they offered in a profane manner and died, the scripture says that their censers were hallowed, (Num 16:1-50, which passage has already been referenced previously). And since their censers were hallowed or sacred, Moses is commanded to tell Eleazar the son of Ahron to beat their censers into brass plates and make a covering for the brazen altar, (Num 16:36-40). However Korah was not of the same priestly line as Ahron and his sons, for though they were all of Levi, the priesthood was separated into different functions serving both nearer unto the Lord, (Ahron and his sons), and less near unto the Lord, (for example Korah and his sons were sons of Yitzhar). Therefore I ask you: how do you know whether or not the different metals represent nearness in service unto the LORD? For the things nearer are generally gold while the things not so near are brass: I speak of the censers of Korah, (brass), and the high probability that the censers of Nadab and Abihu may have been gold, (being sons of Ahron, and thus nearer to the LORD in their service).

    Can you comprehend the intricacies of what I am saying here? For Lev 16:1 makes specific note that what follows in that passage was commanded at the time when Nadab and Abihu offered strange fire before the LORD and died. But what happened to their censers? and were they more likely golden censers? For if the censers of Korah and those about him were hallowed and sacred, even though they offered in a profane manner and died, and their censers were yet beaten into plates and used in the service of the brazen altar: what happened to the censers of Nadab and Abihu? For the LORD made the commandment clear when he commanded Moses to have Eleazer to beat the brazen censers into a covering for the brazen altar: the censers therefore must be used in the service of the sanctuary because they are hallowed and sacred. You might now go back and reread some of what has been said about this, for Lev 16:12 and Num 16:46 are the only two places in the Torah where the censer has the definite article attached to this word, (המחתה), and Lev 16:12 is therefore the first occurrence, and it seems to appear as if out of nowhere: but not if you have the Spirit of the Torah, the Word, to guide you.

    "blood sacrifices" ~ Zenenese . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    Wow, I must say that I never even thought of it that way. How does one defend such a position from the stance of a calling? Can you imagine someone saying, "The Lord has sent me to inform you all that His Word is full of errors"???
    It is actually that man-made doctrine of inerrancy that is wrong. It is not Godís Word. Inerrancy is not a claim of scripture. The deification of a book, with people actually saying that they worship the book, is something that is inappropriate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Well, his last thread was attacking the Gospel. What a mission that was, and it turned out so well, didn't it?


    There are probably three main missions for the ministers of satan.

    1. Attack God's written word.

    2. Attack the Gospel.

    3. Attack the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ.
    If you are saying that I did those things, you are wrong on 3 counts. You struck out.

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    Lon writes:
    I have you on record believing he raised Walter from the dead

    I don’t have any reason to doubt it.

    Why do you?

    Is it because you have decided that God doesn’t do miracles any more?

    If you think that way, you won’t see any miracles.

    Are you familiar with Cru, formerly known as Campus Crusade for Christ, and their Jesus Film project?

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    Over 4000 post club daqq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    It is actually that man-made doctrine of inerrancy that is wrong. It is not God’s Word. Inerrancy is not a claim of scripture. The deification of a book, with people actually saying that they worship the book, is something that is inappropriate.
    You do the same as Zenn, and it is abusive falsehood at someone else's expense, for we all know that Lon did not mean it the way you keep intentionally portraying it. Truth be told, if you really knew my position, you would have a field day with what I know to be true about the Memra-Logos-Word. In my "book" you are attributing sin to the Master, even though you call it error, ("to er" is to miss the mark, the same as is "to sin"). It is one thing to discuss, debate, and argue over variants from different manuscripts and codices, but quite another to say that the original author of Matthew did not know what he was talking or writing about. Both you and Zenn have made that accusation even though, again, you both like to say that you believe it was not Matthew himself but "some disciples of his" who wrote the Matthew account so as to water down and lessen the obvious and blatant-overt heresy of your accusation. You have both lifted yourselves up against an Apostle of Messiah: you may as well be Korah and those with him.

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