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Thread: Scripture. What is considered Scripture?

  1. #2236
    Journeyman Zenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    So you say that the Master abolished the commandment to honor your father and mother,
    daqq, you're losing it buddy. I didn't say anything, I just quoted the scriptures where Jesus clarified who that "mother" and "father" were in the Dead Testament.

    Go argue with Jesus, although it's rather obvious from your posts that as gldz follows Paul as her Messiah, you still follow Moses as Messiah.

    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    You thus make your own contradictions in not only the scripture but the very words of the Master whom you claim to follow and believe in. How can you say you "believe" in him when you do not care to uphold his Testimony and do not care when you force contradictions in his Testimony for your own benefit to satisfy your privately held doctrines?
    I don't have any privaetly held doctrines, daqq. Step back take a breather and if you can, recognize that you just came unglued by ONLY reading scripture verses.

    I don't see a contradiction in his Testimony regarding mother and father, any more than when Paul says "For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:" In this case, Israel is defined after the heart, not the bloodline, and this was obviously Jesus intent when redefining who the mother and father is that should be honored - the heart of the spirit in love supersedes bloodline. And I've given you two testimonies here.

    It's not really hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    Yes, according to *you* the scripture has errors,
    Cobra likes the word error. And to be accurate.... according to *me* different portions of scripture describe accounts that contradict one another.

    When one account has Jarius saying to Jesus that his daughter just died, while another account has Jarius saying to Jesus that his daughter is ill and near death. This is an outright contradiction between the two stories. ANY mentally sane person would understand this.

    I think the problem here is that you think I think that these contradictions destroy the validity of the testimony. I don't. Why do you think these contradictions would? (destroy the validity of the testimony)?

    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    If you are not careful the only thing going POOF might be you, (I would not be calling down anymore lightning if I were you, but that's just me, lol).
    Yep. That's you. No gifts at all. There can't be gifts because I don't like them.

    Zenn
    Last edited by Zenn; January 12th, 2018 at 12:48 PM. Reason: see strikethrough
    It is difficult to be reasonable with those who cannot reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    You don't get to stipulate what a valid answer is. THIS ONE 'assumes' there is no other option.


    Read the text Lon.

    It says "A valid answer..." it does not say "the only valid answer..."

    He did not present a false dilemma.

    Zenn
    It is difficult to be reasonable with those who cannot reason.

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    Over 2500 post club iouae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post

    And this is the purpose of Galatians....that the law was merely a schoolmaster to lead us to faith in Christ. Justification by faith...not by works (circumcision or any other kind of work or self effort).

    Gal. 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
    Knowing that a NAIL is not SCREWED INTO WOOD by the works of A SCREWDRIVER, but by the USE of A HAMMER, even we have believed in THE CORRECT INSTRUMENT, that we might NAIL IN A NAIL BY A HAMMER, and not by the works of the SCREWDRIVER: for by the works of the SCREWDRIVER shall no NAIL BE NAILED IN.

    You just hate screwdrivers
    Stop the culling of Cape Town's baboons!

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    This Gospel of the Kingdom was no longer a valid Gospel because the Jews had crucified the Lord of Glory when He came. Thus, "Repent and be baptised" was no longer valid, either, under Paul's Gospel of Grace.
    And BANG there it is in all the glory of black and white.

    The gospel Jesus taught is no longer valid because Jesus messed up and got himself killed.

    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Thus, "Repent and be baptised" was no longer valid
    And yet right after the disciples were filled with the Holy Ghost, God by the Holy Spirit has Peter lie to everybody when preaching truths gldz says are no longer valid:

    Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
    (Act 2:38-41 KJV)

    3,000 poor deluded souls who embraced an invalid gospel (according to gldz) and so must be heading off to hell because they listened to the Holy Spirit.

    gldz, with these declarations you've recently made, it is not hard to see that you have rejected ALL of Jesus teachings and have supplanted them with your new god Paul.

    Zenn

    PS: But I am well pleased that you are clearly presenting your beliefs.
    It is difficult to be reasonable with those who cannot reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenn View Post
    He who? Jesus? The words Jesus preached when He walked among us does not give life? gldz I am astonished that so many of your doctrinal assertions are just in blatant opposition what Jesus actually said. The very words of Christ contradict you.
    No, they don't.

    Jesus words give life:
    Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
    (Joh 5:24 KJV)
    Where do you see obey the commandments there?

    Jesus words give life:
    It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
    (Joh 6:63 KJV)
    The words He had just spoken. "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. I am that bread of life."

    Again, where are the commandments? Believing is what brings life.


    The scriptures I've been quoting are the words of Jesus who himself said they gave life. And furthermore commanded you to do these things.

    If ye love me, keep my commandments. (Joh 14:15 KJV)
    He was speaking to the Apostles in chapters 14 and 15. John 15:27 They were to bear witness until the Comforter would come. All this before Christ went to the cross and rose from the dead, and before Christ was the end of the law for righteousness. Romans 10:4

    Jesus Christ ended the law for righteousness for those who believe when He went to the cross....Paul didn't do that. Paul only reported it.


    Jesus teachings are not law, Moses gave the law. Jesus teachings are spirit and truth which bring life.
    Have you ever read Matt. 5....seen how Jesus magnified the law? Even to look at a woman with lust made you guilty of adultery. That was law and brought only death. Jesus most certainly taught the law. The purpose of the law was to bring men to faith in Christ. Of course He preached the law.

    Is there guile in Jesus? To mislead those who hear his words? For he said If ye love me, keep my commandments. Of course we can keep his commandments, and we do so with the help of the Holy Spirit. Otherwise Jesus was a very sick puppy to command people to do things he knew they couldn't.
    Oh, you mean that Holy Spirit who had not yet come when He walked among us?

    And once again you have taken the teachings of Jesus and discarded them into the trash making Paul your new Messiah. Are you a dispensationalist like those who say that Jesus revealed to Paul that nothing Jesus spoke on earth had worth or value?
    Wrong. What Jesus spoke on earth had great value. He told us to be PERFECT as the Father in Heaven is perfect. Most will see that they cannot be perfect, and what will they do then? Keep trying to be perfect or will they opt instead to turn to God for His mercy and GRACE? The Law has a purpose...to show men what sinners they are, and bring them to Christ.

    Do you think that the sermon on the mount was God playing mind games?
    No, I think it was God's way of getting us to admit our great need. Why do you think God asked Adam how he knew he was naked? Just to play mind games with Adam?

    I have heard of people taking the very words of the Son of God, slapping the label of LAW upon them and then flushing them down the same toilet along with the LAW of Moses to preach a Paul is Messiah gospel. But you may be the first to do such so blatantly and so radically adopting this doctrine stating that Jesus words were worthless, being some kind of Jesaic Law.

    Zenn
    I did not say Jesus' words were worthless. Do you read the Bible in the same way you read the words of others....read into them that way?

    I guess you don't think that the Risen Lord was much of anything, do you? Perhaps you doubt His death on the cross accomplished anything for us. We could just all try and keep those commandments, and Jesus need not have come at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Paul makes it clear that his Gospel was not that preached by the Apostles or our Lord when He walked the earth. It was given Him by revelation of the Risen and Ascended Lord.
    Absolutely.

    Zenn





    PS: Couldn't have been said better.
    It is difficult to be reasonable with those who cannot reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenn View Post
    And BANG there it is in all the glory of black and white.

    The gospel Jesus taught is no longer valid because Jesus messed up and got himself killed.
    Oh, the drama.

    Jesus didn't mess up. He came to die, and He accomplished what He came for.

    Perhaps you don't know that He came for the lost sheep of Israel. He did say that, you know?

    Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


    And yet right after the disciples were filled with the Holy Ghost, God by the Holy Spirit has Peter lie to everybody when preaching truths gldz says are no longer valid:

    Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
    (Act 2:38-41 KJV)

    3,000 poor deluded souls who embraced an invalid gospel (according to gldz) and so must be heading off to hell because they listened to the Holy Spirit.
    Oh the drama.

    I guess you don't know that Peter, himself, came to understand that God had better things in store for those who would believe in Paul's Gospel....stating, "We shall be saved even as they."

    Acts 15:10-12
    10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. 12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.

    gldz, with these declarations you've recently made, it is not hard to see that you have rejected ALL of Jesus teachings and have supplanted them with your new god Paul.

    Zenn

    PS: But I am well pleased that you are clearly presenting your beliefs.
    Praise God, Zenn is well pleased.

    Now, if you would move on and find as much interest in what the Risen Lord revealed to the Apostle Paul. It's really quite sad that you reject the knowledge that our Lord actually raised from the dead. Apparently, you haven't heard the Good News he brought about GRACE and the Gift of Salvation for those (Jews and Gentiles) who BELIEVE. The baptism is no longer water, but by the Spirit into the body of Christ.

    I hate to see people who get stuck on the wrong side of the cross...unaware of what the Lord Jesus Christ accomplished.

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    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iouae View Post
    Knowing that a NAIL is not SCREWED INTO WOOD by the works of A SCREWDRIVER, but by the USE of A HAMMER, even we have believed in THE CORRECT INSTRUMENT, that we might NAIL IN A NAIL BY A HAMMER, and not by the works of the SCREWDRIVER: for by the works of the SCREWDRIVER shall no NAIL BE NAILED IN.

    You just hate screwdrivers
    I suppose you find yourself humorous.

    I'm not sure whether to mock or just shake my head.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    I suppose you find yourself humorous.

    I'm not sure whether to mock or just shake my head.
    You have decided that because a screwdriver is useless for hammering in nails (or in spiritual terms, the law is useless at justifying or making one right with God) that the screwdriver is useless and needs to be thrown out of the toolbox.

    No. The screwdriver (law) has a different purpose 1) to tell you what constitutes sin 2) to show you where you are deficient 3) to make you feel guilty

    THE LAW CANNOT JUSTIFY.

    Only faith in/of Jesus can.

    Faith in/of Jesus is UTTERLY USELESS AT TELLING YOU WHAT SIN IS. That is not it's purpose. That's the law's purpose.

    Paul throws nothing out of the toolbox, least of all the law. Rom 7:12
    Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
    Stop the culling of Cape Town's baboons!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenn View Post
    When one account has Jarius saying to Jesus that his daughter just died, while another account has Jarius saying to Jesus that his daughter is ill and near death. This is an outright contradiction between the two stories. ANY mentally sane person would understand this.
    What contradiction? There is no conflict here except in the eyes of those who deny inerrancy.

    Jairus came to Jesus knowing his daughter was at the very point of dying or by now had actually died.

    While Jesus was dealing with the throng, a servant ran to Jairus to tell him his daughter now had no vital signs and they believed her to be gone.
    So Jairus gave Jesus the additional information that those with her said she was dead.

    None of the gospel writers got it wrong. They just told it differently.

    Look at Heb 11:22KJV if you want to know that the word τελευτάω means. How could Joseph, being dead, make mention of anything? The word includes the process of dying, not an actual instant in time. Its a verb, the action of which describes a process.
    Religion is man's attempt to make himself acceptable to God. Christianity is God making man acceptable to Himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Scared, aren't you?
    Not at all. I have just been asking you about Jairus for pages and pages, as well as about other errors, and you never respond.

    So I donít feel an obligation to answer any of your off-the-topic questions until you do a little answering yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    Again I ask:

    Specifically:
    1) Did Jairus initially ask Jesus to heal a sick girl or to raise a dead girl?
    2) Did Jairus learn his daughter was dead before Jesus started to his house or afterwards?
    Lonís answer:
    I'm not getting into you 'my ball, my rules' game. You don't 'get' to make the rules. All those playing get to decide or leave you all by yourself and go play someplace else.
    You claim the Bible is inerrant, and you will not explain its errors.

    That is not a Ďmy ball, my rulesí situation.

    It is clear evidence that you are wrong, know you are wrong, and wonít enter the ball game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by George Affleck View Post
    What contradiction? There is no conflict here except in the eyes of those who deny inerrancy.

    Jairus came to Jesus knowing his daughter was at the very point of dying or by now had actually died.

    While Jesus was dealing with the throng, a servant ran to Jairus to tell him his daughter now had no vital signs and they believed her to be gone.
    So Jairus gave Jesus the additional information that those with her said she was dead.

    None of the gospel writers got it wrong. They just told it differently.

    Look at Heb 11:22KJV if you want to know that the word τελευτάω means. How could Joseph, being dead, make mention of anything? The word includes the process of dying, not an actual instant in time. Its a verb, the action of which describes a process.
    George, your version adds to Mark and Luke’s account and directly contradicts Matthew’s account.

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    Over 5000 post club daqq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    You haven’t answered me.
    I asked
    Specifically:
    1) Did Jairus initially ask Jesus to heal a sick girl or to raise a dead girl?
    2) Did Jairus learn his daughter was dead before Jesus started to his house or afterwards?

    And you will not answer.
    You are being deceitful, I did already give you my answer to that and even told you that I view it the same as the answer to the centurion, which I also answered more than once, but you rejected and ignored.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    Despite the fact that you will not answer my question, I will answer yours.

    Jesus uses hyperbole often. His individual statements should not be taken in isolation and “prooftexted” into error.

    Jesus said the passage you quoted, told us we were to love one another, and rebuked harshly the religious leaders who dedicated their goods to the Lord so they would not have to take care of their parents.

    So, no, Jesus is not saying don’t take care of your parents. He is saying that following Jesus is our first responsibility, even if that means our entire family turns against us.

    I took care of my parents. I took care of my wife’s parents. Did you?

    There is a great difference between spiritualizing historical facts into nonsense and interpretation of the words of Jesus.
    According to the Testimony of the Master, you answered incorrectly, just as Zenn also answered incorrectly. I did not fully expound my understanding of that passage, as Glorydaz also has noted, but only showed you why your "plain sense" understanding of it is erroneous and how your own mindset breeds contradictions. However I did hint at the answer and touched lightly upon it from the writings of Paul and a passage from the Apocalypse, (Gal 4:22-27, Rev 11:8, moreover, O Egypt, "great of flesh", Eze 16:26 KJV, lol, in the allegorical language from all of Ezekiel 16).

    Matthew 10:34-38
    34 Think not that I am come to cast peace upon the earth: I came not to send forth peace, but a sword.
    (the macharia-sword of spiritual warfare, Rev 6:4)
    35 For I am come to sever a man from his father, and the daughter from her mother, and the daughter in law from her mother in law.
    36 And the enemies of a man shall be those of his own household.
    (Mic 7:5-6 referring to Dt 13:6)
    37 The one loving father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and the one loving son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
    38 And the one not taking up his cross and following after me is not worthy of me.


    As I have said before several times from the holy Testimony: the kingdom of Elohim is within you, (Luke 17:20,21). Everyone has "your father the Devil" and "your heavenly Father", (not just "the Jews" and "the Pharisees", O king, lol), and we are expected to cut off and cut away from that former spirit of the world and prince of the power of the air, the god of this world, and cleave away unto our heavenly Father by way of the only holy and approved Testimony of His Son the Messiah. You moreover have your "mother of harlots" who is in enmity against your "mother(covenant) Jerusalem of above", which Paul plainly says is an allegory, like Hagar -vs- Sarah, Ishmael -vs- Isaac, Esau -vs- Jacob, (twins, your old man nature and your new man in Messiah which at war in your heavens, (we wrestle not against flesh and blood, lol)), your "son of perdition" (Judas nature) -vs- the Son of Elohim, and so on and so on, the Flesh (mindset and nature) -vs- the Spirit (even the mind of Messiah). The Master therefore does not speak in terms of how you continue to speak: and because he quotes from Mic 7:5-6, and because that passage in turn references Dt 13:6, neither do those passages, the Prophet and the Torah passage, speak according to your carnal minded nature.

    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    The High Priest has two stones in his hidden pouch beneath the breastplate, the Urim and the Thummim, and the one is a white-light stone, (of approval), while the other is a stone of black light: be careful he does not give you what you came looking for, for he has all authority in the heavens and the earth to give to every man according to his deeds; and if the light that is in you be darkness, how great is that darkness.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenn View Post
    And BANG there it is in all the glory of black and white.


    We have one here already now, since I said these things, one who indeed speaks with the mouth of a lion, boasting great things such as raising the dead and calling down lightning from the heavens, and who at the same time blasphemes those among us who are tabernacling in the heavens: he has a king in his own little temple who raises the dead and calls down fire from the heavens in the sight of men; two horns like a lamb but speaks like a dragon. Repent, Cobra, change your thinking and mindset, and stop accusing the Word before it is too late and you too start raising the dead and calling down fire from the heavens and claiming all the glory for yourself: for Elohim Most High does not give such power to those who will turn against Him and take the glory and honor all for themselves, but His Kohen after the order of Melki-Tzedek will give you what you ask for if you keep demanding it, the black-light stone of the blackness of the darkness forever, (Jude 1:13, Mat 6:23, 2Thes 2:9-10, 11-12, Rev 13:11,12,13).
    Last edited by daqq; January 12th, 2018 at 07:04 AM.

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    Daqq writes;
    I did already give you my answer to that

    Then I am going assume you answered that Jairus asked for his sick daughter to be healed and Jairus only heard about her death after he and Jesus had started the journey to the house of Jairus.

    So you declared the gospel of Matthew in error, and the doctrine of inerrancy is proved false.

    Alternately, I could have assumed you answered that Jairus asked for his dead daughter to be resurrected and Jairus learned about her death after he and Jesus had started the journey to the house of Jairus.

    So you declared the gospel of Mark and Luke in error, and the doctrine of inerrancy is proved false.

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