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Thread: Scripture. What is considered Scripture?

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    KJV is the Best !!!
    Oh no it isn't:



    http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...reek_Index.htm

    http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...brew_Index.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    Where can we get a copy of the scriptures that are "inspired of God?"


    Not a peep.


    Let me guess-you:Here is the scripture, that says we no longer have the scriptures.


    Sit.
    Okay so you are scared to go first. Therefore let me show you how it is done:



    http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...reek_Index.htm

    http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...brew_Index.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    Oh, I agree. Anytime we use language. Ephesians 5:4 If you don't live by them, you live by your own code. Contrasts for thread posterity I'd reckon.



    On top of that, you agreed to abide by the forum rules. I 'was' bothered by your coarse language. God calls us to something better. We either live by the book, or we don't.
    1 Corinthians 13:11 Advice? Live by the book. Don't HAVE foul words in your vocabulary. Again, one lives BY the book or goes about correcting it. One of us is being remade in its image (perhaps the other, but if you don't esteem it like King David and I, I'm worried).
    Your underhandedness has hurt yourself more than me.
    Last edited by WatchmanOnTheWall; January 4th, 2018 at 03:05 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    Then by ALL MEANS, write what you think instead of what is said

    Are you dishonest, illiterate, or both?




    Dishonest. You weren't being 'loving.' You are here for your own ego. You CANNOT listen to another or his/her theology. You are as despicable as your inability to read OR represent another clearly. AGAIN, you are NOT here for that. I wish that you were.

    Worse? YOU would rather have enemies than friends over these matters and it shows. You attack and debate poorly, without regard for another, and without regard for truth EXCEPT what you THINK it is and are committed to. What you LOVE is your theories and your own lacking prowess which you esteem way and above what it actually is. You fail to deliver and are a poor communicator and likely a poor person for all this too. You came on TOL concerned MOST about YOUR agenda. Not making friends or actually caring about anybody. As I've said, I've prayed over your arrogance and ignorance. It isn't pleasing to God. He is capable of doing what He must, but YOU my friend, are only here to win a debate and your OWN way. And it IS plain. I don't have to be a mindreader, it is what this thread is producing by your own hand. YOU have done this. It is your work and the fruit of your labors. Worse? It is getting worse, not better. Sad days, that.
    I've made TOL friends with cobra.

    You vitriol is

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    No, but you won't listen to anything not your opinion The 1611 is important for a number of reasons. I'm not KJVonly in that I would make everyone read only it. That said, I read it most specifically because it is a word-for-word rather than idea for idea endeavor. It also has the greater wealth of academic work having been around since 1611 than any other translation. You cannot, for instance, use a concordance as well for the NIV as you can for the KJV specifically because of the different ways both are translated. Most commentaries and theology works reference the KJV for those 400 years as well.
    Wrong:



    http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...reek_Index.htm

    http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...brew_Index.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    No, he is saying without the Bible, that you attack, you couldn't possibly prove 'anything.'

    As I've said and you'll not accept coming from me: You don't read to understand AND you marginalize your opponent with 'special needs' and 'delusion.' Sorry, Cobra, you are lying to yourself. It isn't love, not even tough love. You haven't listened and it shows. There is no love without listening. There is just a wrecking ball you swing on an inerrant forum and a devil-may-care cavalier attitude toward those 'who you seek to wreck.' This isn't your first forum. You SHOULD have learned from your mistakes the first time so this didn't happen AGAIN


    People just aren't going to like you. I learned in my pastoral class a long time ago: People don't care what you know, until they know you care. God spent a great deal of time conveying His love culminating in the life and death of His Son on earth and heaven, I think specifically because people don't care what you know, until they know you care. Another way the paradigm is given: Truth and relationship. Truth without relationship is an uncaring unthinking sledge hammer. Relationship without truth is a veneer of acquaintance.

    Jesus said: The time is coming and is now here when TRUE worshippers will worship in Spirit (love) and Truth (what is right). Only with both can we be of any service to one another or God, thus the Lord Jesus Christ summed it up that all of everything given was based on two commands: To love God and Love one another.

    Nobody that reads 'all the law and the prophets lay on these two commands' and think 'errant.' THAT isn't going to happen. They are going to work, rather, on honing their own love for the Savior and His people.

    Again, no idea if I've reached you. You haven't heard a word I've said in thread but what you've latched onto to 'dig' into me back. That isn't love either.
    You haven't listened to or understood a word cobra has said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    I'm glad you watched that whole video I posted.
    I got through the first hour. I hope I get a badge?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WatchmanOnTheWall View Post
    Originally Posted by Lon
    No, but you won't listen to anything not your opinion The 1611 is important for a number of reasons. I'm not KJVonly in that I would make everyone read only it. That said, I read it most specifically because it is a word-for-word rather than idea for idea endeavor. It also has the greater wealth of academic work having been around since 1611 than any other translation. You cannot, for instance, use a concordance as well for the NIV as you can for the KJV specifically because of the different ways both are translated. Most commentaries and theology works reference the KJV for those 400 years as well.
    Wrong:



    http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...reek_Index.htm

    http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...brew_Index.htm
    Your image file says the same thing Lon said about the KJV! (word-for-word).

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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    Lol, Psalm 12:7 shows the same as what I posted to him:
    http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...Tpdf/psa12.pdf

    "you-shall-guard- them : you-shall-preserve- us"

    Thanks for posting that.
    Yes and notice it says forever! How can a bible last forever? It can't, as has been shown by the fact we no longer have the originals and when God makes a new earth and heaven, every existing bible will be destroyed. Only God's actual Words will last forever. Just as God's Words spoke creation into existence, His Word's are where the power is. Bibles are just one way to disseminate His Word's but are ultimately flawed. That is one reason why Jesus never wrote anything down.

    Psalm 12:7
    Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

    http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...Tpdf/psa12.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    Your image file says the same thing Lon said about the KJV! (word-for-word).
    Yes but it is only the 5th most accurate! (not including other versions) and where it brackets 'Thought for Thought' they are only an indication. The KJV clearly uses thought for thought and even strays into paraphrasing at times:

    Isaiah 40:7
    King James Bible
    The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass.

    Interlinear
    he dries up grass he decays blossom that spirit of Yahweh SHE reverses in him surely.

    Quite different! Oh and look; SHE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WatchmanOnTheWall View Post
    Yes and notice it says forever! How can a bible last forever? It can't, as has been shown by the fact we no longer have the originals and when God makes a new earth and heaven, every existing bible will be destroyed. Only God's actual Words will last forever. Just as God's Words spoke creation into existence, His Word's are where the power is. Bibles are just one way to disseminate His Word's but are ultimately flawed. That is why Jesus never wrote anything down.

    Psalm 12:7
    Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

    http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...Tpdf/psa12.pdf
    You really do have a reading comprehension problem just as your new found friends: the version you quote now in this post is from the side-bar in your interlinear, (correct?), but even that text is not in agreement with the Hebrew interlinear text right there on the page next to it! Can you not see that? Can you not tell the difference between the words "them" and "us"? Just like GO you apparently refuse to see it for what it says because in your mindset-paradigm it cannot possibly be speaking of both the Word and people of Elohim: for if it does, then that means you are yours are wrong. But it does indeed speak of Elohim keeping or guarding His words and sayings that are written and at the same time preserving His people into the age, (olam). And how does He do that? He preserves His people with His Word. You therefore are required to consume His Word and intake those holy, pure, and seven-times tried in the fire words and sayings into yourself and your very being: your heart, your mind, your soul, and then you yourself will be preserved into the age, (olam), and the Word will no doubt be with you because without the Word you will not be preserved. His Word endures forever, through his people: but without His Word becoming part of you, how is it you think you will be preserved into olam or the age to come? The only real reason therefore to say that the Word has error is because you do not wish to consume it.

    The Septuagint here uses logia, which is "oracles" or "sayings", just as the YLT previously posted:

    Psalm 12:6 LXX
    6 τα λογια κυριου λογια αγνα αργυριον πεπυρωμενον δοκιμιον τη γη κεκαθαρισμενον επταπλασιως

    Psalm 12:6 LXX Brenton Translation
    6 The oracles of the Lord are pure oracles; as silver tried in the fire, proved in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

    The same word is recorded as used by Stephen in the book of Acts:

    Acts 7:37-38 YLT
    37 this is the Moses who did say to the sons of Israel: A prophet to you shall the Lord your God raise up out of your brethren, like to me, him shall ye hear.
    38 'This is he who was in the assembly in the wilderness, with the messenger who is speaking to him in the mount Sinai, and with our fathers who did receive the living oracles
    [λογια ζωντα] to give to us;

    "λογια ζωντα" - "LIVING ORACLES"

    The only alternative you really have is the so-called Oral Torah:
    Would you like to go with that or the truth which is the logos-reasoning of the written Word?

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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    Originally Posted by WatchmanOnTheWall
    Yes and notice it says forever! How can a bible last forever? It can't, as has been shown by the fact we no longer have the originals and when God makes a new earth and heaven, every existing bible will be destroyed. Only God's actual Words will last forever. Just as God's Words spoke creation into existence, His Word's are where the power is. Bibles are just one way to disseminate His Word's but are ultimately flawed. That is why Jesus never wrote anything down.

    Psalm 12:7
    Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

    http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...Tpdf/psa12.pdf
    You really do have a reading comprehension problem just as your new found friends: the version you quote now in this post is from the side-bar in your interlinear, (correct?), but even that text is not in agreement with the Hebrew interlinear text right there on the page next to it! Can you not see that? Can you not tell the difference between the words "them" and "us"? Just like GO you apparently refuse to see it for what it says because in your mindset-paradigm it cannot possibly be speaking of both the Word and people of Elohim: for if it does, then that means you are yours are wrong. But it does indeed speak of Elohim keeping or guarding His words and sayings that are written and at the same time preserving His people into the age, (olam). And how does He do that? He preserves His people with His Word. You therefore are required to consume His Word and intake those holy, pure, and seven-times tried in the fire words and sayings into yourself and your very being: your heart, your mind, your soul, and then you yourself will be preserved into the age, (olam), and the Word will no doubt be with you because without the Word you will not be preserved. His Word endures forever, through his people: but without His Word becoming part of you, how is it you think you will be preserved into olam or the age to come? The only real reason therefore to say that the Word has error is because you do not wish to consume it.

    The Septuagint here uses logia, which is "oracles" or "sayings", just as the YLT previously posted:

    Psalm 12:6 LXX
    6 τα λογια κυριου λογια αγνα αργυριον πεπυρωμενον δοκιμιον τη γη κεκαθαρισμενον επταπλασιως

    Psalm 12:6 LXX Brenton Translation
    6 The oracles of the Lord are pure oracles; as silver tried in the fire, proved in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

    The same word is recorded as used by Stephen in the book of Acts:

    Acts 7:37-38 YLT
    37 this is the Moses who did say to the sons of Israel: A prophet to you shall the Lord your God raise up out of your brethren, like to me, him shall ye hear.
    38 'This is he who was in the assembly in the wilderness, with the messenger who is speaking to him in the mount Sinai, and with our fathers who did receive the living oracles
    [λογια ζωντα] to give to us;

    "λογια ζωντα" - "LIVING ORACLES"

    The only alternative you really have is the so-called Oral Torah:
    Would you like to go with that or the truth which is the logos-reasoning of the written Word?
    And by the way, the side-bar text in the interlinear which you linked is probably just a site-wide standard translation they uploaded to the entire Hebrew interlinear. It does not likely mean that they are suggesting that is the correct rendering because the rendering is given below the Hebrew text and contains that portion I quoted earlier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WatchmanOnTheWall View Post
    Yes but it is only the 5th most accurate! (not including other versions) and where it brackets 'Thought for Thought' they are only an indication. The KJV clearly uses thought for thought and even strays into paraphrasing at times:

    Isaiah 40:7
    King James Bible
    The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass.

    Interlinear
    he dries up grass he decays blossom that spirit of Yahweh SHE reverses in him surely.

    Quite different! Oh and look; SHE.
    She? You are committing a similar error to what GO and his commentators were attempting to do if you think that means what I think you think that means.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    Originally Posted by WatchmanOnTheWall
    Yes but it is only the 5th most accurate! (not including other versions) and where it brackets 'Thought for Thought' they are only an indication. The KJV clearly uses thought for thought and even strays into paraphrasing at times:

    Isaiah 40:7
    King James Bible
    The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass.

    Interlinear
    he dries up grass he decays blossom that spirit of Yahweh SHE reverses in him surely.

    Quite different! Oh and look; SHE.


    She? You are committing a similar error to what GO and his commentators were attempting to do if you think that means what I think you think that means.
    Ya know... that could actually help you if only you paid attention, understood, and believed some of the things already said from the scripture roundabout these parts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    You really do have a reading comprehension problem just as your new found friends: the version you quote now in this post is from the side-bar in your interlinear, (correct?), but even that text is not in agreement with the Hebrew interlinear text right there on the page next to it! Can you not see that? Can you not tell the difference between the words "them" and "us"? Just like GO you apparently refuse to see it for what it says because in your mindset-paradigm it cannot possibly be speaking of both the Word and people of Elohim: for if it does, then that means you are yours are wrong. But it does indeed speak of Elohim keeping or guarding His words and sayings that are written and at the same time preserving His people into the age, (olam). And how does He do that? He preserves His people with His Word. You therefore are required to consume His Word and intake those holy, pure, and seven-times tried in the fire words and sayings into yourself and your very being: your heart, your mind, your soul, and then you yourself will be preserved into the age, (olam), and the Word will no doubt be with you because without the Word you will not be preserved. His Word endures forever, through his people: but without His Word becoming part of you, how is it you think you will be preserved into olam or the age to come? The only real reason therefore to say that the Word has error is because you do not wish to consume it.

    The Septuagint here uses logia, which is "oracles" or "sayings", just as the YLT previously posted:

    Psalm 12:6 LXX
    6 τα λογια κυριου λογια αγνα αργυριον πεπυρωμενον δοκιμιον τη γη κεκαθαρισμενον επταπλασιως

    Psalm 12:6 LXX Brenton Translation
    6 The oracles of the Lord are pure oracles; as silver tried in the fire, proved in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

    The same word is recorded as used by Stephen in the book of Acts:

    Acts 7:37-38 YLT
    37 this is the Moses who did say to the sons of Israel: A prophet to you shall the Lord your God raise up out of your brethren, like to me, him shall ye hear.
    38 'This is he who was in the assembly in the wilderness, with the messenger who is speaking to him in the mount Sinai, and with our fathers who did receive the living oracles
    [λογια ζωντα] to give to us;

    "λογια ζωντα" - "LIVING ORACLES"

    The only alternative you really have is the so-called Oral Torah:
    Would you like to go with that or the truth which is the logos-reasoning of the written Word?
    You are obvious new to the interlinear word for word translation. The paraphrased right hand column is not meant to match the word for word translation on the left. That would be silly and serve no purpose. It is meant to help the read understand the non-grammatical word for translation. It is an aid but like all translations (that you are used to, like the KJV) they detract from the pure meaning the text and therefore loose some of the original meaning. Think of it like the difference between a photo and a painting. All you have been use to till now were paintings by different artists of the same scene now you have a photo and it is confusing for you but once you get used to it you will realise that you are looking at a clearer image (meaning of the original text). The only way to improve on this is to learn the original Hebrew or Greek.

    And again you are confusing God's Words and The Word's of God written down by men.

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