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Thread: Scripture. What is considered Scripture?

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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    You do the same as Zenn, and it is abusive falsehood at someone else's expense, for we all know that Lon did not mean it the way you keep intentionally portraying it. Truth be told, if you really knew my position, you would have a field day with what I know to be true about the Memra-Logos-Word. In my "book" you are attributing sin to the Master, even though you call it error, ("to er" is to miss the mark, the same as is "to sin"). It is one thing to discuss, debate, and argue over variants from different manuscripts and codices, but quite another to say that the original author of Matthew did not know what he was talking or writing about. Both you and Zenn have made that accusation even though, again, you both like to say that you believe it was not Matthew himself but "some disciples of his" who wrote the Matthew account so as to water down and lessen the obvious and blatant-overt heresy of your accusation. You have both lifted yourselves up against an Apostle of Messiah: you may as well be Korah and those with him.
    It is interesting that you aren’t willing to share your positions.

    To me, it is obvious that Matthew himself did not write the gospel that carries his name, that it was likely written by others who learned from him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    It is interesting that you aren’t willing to share your positions.

    To me, it is obvious that Matthew himself did not write the gospel that carries his name, that it was likely written by others who learned from him.
    You and yours made the accusation: it is up to you to prove what you say and lay out all of your evidence, (hence you get that now familiar phrase said to you so often, "case dismissed"). We have thoroughly discussed this fact, I even suggested that you start a new thread, post all of the passages concerned, and put forth your entire "thesis" as to why you believe you are correct in saying that Matthew is in error. However you declined to actually put forth your evidence for your accusation and have done nothing but make more accusations since that time. Moreover, after having studied that issue more in-depth, I did offer up some of the more important aspects, (imho), which were again ignored, and those points were, for one, the word amphodon in the Mark passage, (αμφοδον, Mark 11:4, which can either mean "the parting of two ways", or "the place where two ways meet", or even "the circle of the meeting of the ways", [like a city-center or town square]). And for two, the fact, (which neither of you have even mentioned), that the name of Hamor literally means "a donkey", and that is Hamor the father of Shekem, and that is the Shekem which is in the sides of the north, (Shekem, "the Ridge"), that is nearby Shalem-Salem-"Saleim", where Yohanan was also immersing, ("because there was much water there"). The two of you have no clue what you are reading in holy writ: you are the blind groping in darkness and trying to lead others into the ditch with you so that you may feel justified in not fully accepting and believing the Word. There are simply way too many variables that you have not even considered for your accusations to be correct. Your own plain sense reading of holy and supernal scripture from a holy and Living Elohim, who is Spirit, is utter plain sense carnal minded buffoonery: and that also has been presented, shown to be true, and rejected by the both of you.

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    Since the text of Matthew has no internal claims to being written by the Apostle Matthew, I don’t have the burden of proof.

    As for proof it was not written by an eyewitness, we need look no further than the writers placing Jesus on 2 animals for the triumphal entry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    Since the text of Matthew has no internal claims to being written by the Apostle Matthew, I donít have the burden of proof.

    As for proof it was not written by an eyewitness, we need look no further than the writers placing Jesus on 2 animals for the triumphal entry.
    Excuse my ignorance; can you please reference these two animals for this fool?


    Oh, and do you own a 2003 mustang Cobra? If not what is the reference/ avatar?
    peace

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

  5. #2300
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    Since the text of Matthew has no internal claims to being written by the Apostle Matthew, I don’t have the burden of proof.

    As for proof it was not written by an eyewitness, we need look no further than the writers placing Jesus on 2 animals for the triumphal entry.
    On the contrary:

    Matthew 9:9
    9 And as Yeshua passed along from that place, he saw a certain one being called Mattithyahu, sitting at the Asuppim,
    (1Chr 26:15 KJV, 1Chr 26:17 KJV) and he said to him, "Follow me", and rising up he followed unto him.

    This is a Levite and a Kohen, a son of Zechariah of the house of Kore, (H6981 Qore, "the Cryer"), whom you are accusing of not understanding the scripture and writings, (1Chr 26:1-5, 15-17, Mark 2:14, Luke 5:27). And that is whether or not your opinion is correct about it being written by "some of his disciples" because if even it were his disciples, (and it is not), then they would have the same understanding as their teacher.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    It is interesting that you aren’t willing to share your positions.
    Here is one of my positions illustrating your and Zenn's dilemma:

    Psalm 12:6-7
    6 The oracles of YHWH are pure oracles: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
    7 You shall keep them, O YHWH, You shall preserve them from this generation unto olam.

    Psalm 12:6-7
    6 The oracles of YHWH are pure oracles: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
    7 You shall keep them, O YHWH, You shall preserve us from this generation unto olam.

    Psalm 12:6-7
    6 The oracles of YHWH are pure oracles: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
    7 You shall keep us, O YHWH, You shall preserve us from this generation unto olam.

    Psalm 12:6-7
    6 The words of YHWH are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
    7 You shall keep them, O YHWH, You shall preserve them from this generation unto olam.

    Psalm 12:6-7
    6 The words of YHWH are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
    7 You shall keep them, O YHWH, You shall preserve us from this generation unto olam.

    Psalm 12:6-7
    6 The words of YHWH are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
    7 You shall keep us, O YHWH, You shall preserve us from this generation unto olam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by popsthebuilder View Post
    Excuse my ignorance; can you please reference these two animals for this fool?


    Oh, and do you own a 2003 mustang Cobra? If not what is the reference/ avatar?
    peace

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
    Here is the passage from Matthew 21:
    When they had come near Jerusalem and had reached Bethphage, at the Mount of Olives, Jesus sent two disciples, 2 saying to them, “Go into the village ahead of you, and immediately you will find a donkey tied, and a colt with her; untie them and bring them to me. 3 If anyone says anything to you, just say this, ‘The Lord needs them.’ And he will send them immediately.[a]” 4 This took place to fulfill what had been spoken through the prophet, saying,

    5 “Tell the daughter of Zion,
    Look, your king is coming to you,
    humble, and mounted on a donkey,
    and on a colt, the foal of a donkey.”
    6 The disciples went and did as Jesus had directed them; 7 they brought the donkey and the colt, and put their cloaks on them, and he sat on them.


    Yes, I so have a 2003 Mustang Cobra. It is a mineral grey convertible, and I took delivery in June 2002.

    It was warm enough in Atlanta this week for a top down ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    On the contrary:

    Matthew 9:9
    9 And as Yeshua passed along from that place, he saw a certain one being called Mattithyahu, sitting at the Asuppim,
    (1Chr 26:15 KJV, 1Chr 26:17 KJV) and he said to him, "Follow me", and rising up he followed unto him.

    This is a Levite and a Kohen, a son of Zechariah of the house of Kore, (H6981 Qore, "the Cryer"), whom you are accusing of not understanding the scripture and writings, (1Chr 26:1-5, 15-17, Mark 2:14, Luke 5:27). And that is whether or not your opinion is correct about it being written by "some of his disciples" because if even it were his disciples, (and it is not), then they would have the same understanding as their teacher.
    The gospel attributed to Matthew mentions Matthew, so that is your proof Matthew wrote the gospel?

    Hmmm, nobody can refute that!

    Of course, the same gospel mentions Lazarus and Peter and John and James.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    Here is one of my positions illustrating your and Zenn's dilemma:

    Psalm 12:6-7
    6 The oracles of YHWH are pure oracles: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
    7 You shall keep them, O YHWH, You shall preserve them from this generation unto olam.

    Psalm 12:6-7
    6 The oracles of YHWH are pure oracles: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
    7 You shall keep them, O YHWH, You shall preserve us from this generation unto olam.

    Psalm 12:6-7
    6 The oracles of YHWH are pure oracles: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
    7 You shall keep us, O YHWH, You shall preserve us from this generation unto olam.

    Psalm 12:6-7
    6 The words of YHWH are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
    7 You shall keep them, O YHWH, You shall preserve them from this generation unto olam.

    Psalm 12:6-7
    6 The words of YHWH are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
    7 You shall keep them, O YHWH, You shall preserve us from this generation unto olam.

    Psalm 12:6-7
    6 The words of YHWH are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
    7 You shall keep us, O YHWH, You shall preserve us from this generation unto olam.
    Hmmm, don’t see the word Bible or scriptures or canon in those passages.

    So, it is your dilemma, not mine.

    Pretending you can substitute “Bible” for other words in scripture is indefensible. But it may be all you have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    The gospel attributed to Matthew mentions Matthew, so that is your proof Matthew wrote the gospel?

    Hmmm, nobody can refute that!

    Of course, the same gospel mentions Lazarus and Peter and John and James.
    The fact that he does not refer to himself as Levi, a Levite, for one reason, (humility, which they all do show, but we had this conversation already concerning the centurion). Moreover just because you do not find evidence does not mean it is not there, just as in the example I just gave, (for one instance among others). You again make the catastrophic error in believing that just because *you yourself* believe something to be true it must therefore be true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    Hmmm, don’t see the word Bible or scriptures or canon in those passages.

    So, it is your dilemma, not mine.

    Pretending you can substitute “Bible” for other words in scripture is indefensible. But it may be all you have.
    You entirely missed my point.
    Did you carefully read each of them and the differences highlighted therein?
    Apparently not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    The fact that he does not refer to himself as Levi, a Levite, for one reason, (humility, which they all do show, but we had this conversation already concerning the centurion). Moreover just because you do not find evidence does not mean it is not there, just as in the example I just gave, (for one instance among others). You again make the catastrophic error in believing that just because *you yourself* believe something to be true it must therefore be true.
    That is funny, daqq.

    Any why wouldn’t students of Matthew do the same?

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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    You entirely missed my point.
    Did you carefully read each of them and the differences highlighted therein?
    Apparently not.
    Yes, I have discovered that your points are typically hidden.

    If you can’t be clear, don’t expect to be heard.

    For example, you never said whether Jesus told the two disciples to being one animal or two.

    And you never said whether the daughter of Jairus was known to be dead by Jairus before Jesus and Jairus started the journey to the house of Jairus.

    And you never reconciled the multiple errors in the genealogies.

    I could list other errors you expounded around rather than upon.

    To be fair, no one did. But others didn’t try. They either denied the text or said “Christians aren’t supposed to really look at the text.”

    You take a different approach: write something unintelligible and pretend it is profound.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    Yes, I have discovered that your points are typically hidden.

    If you can’t be clear, don’t expect to be heard.

    For example, you never said whether Jesus told the two disciples to being one animal or two.

    And you never said whether the daughter of Jairus was known to be dead by Jairus before Jesus and Jairus started the journey to the house of Jairus.

    And you never reconciled the multiple errors in the genealogies.

    I could list other errors you expounded around rather than upon.

    To be fair, no one did. But others didn’t try. They either denied the text or said “Christians aren’t supposed to really look at the text.”

    You take a different approach: write something unintelligible and pretend it is profound.
    Obfuscate much? Lol, there are at least seven different ways to understand Psalm 12:6-7, and that is according to the grammar in the original text: and all of those ways are true in the manner in which each one may be read, and therefore all seven ways are acceptable. Moreover that is precisely what the surface text says in the overall context: the oracles(sayings) and words of the LORD are seven-times purified or tried, (do not bother asking me about the seventh because it is like unto a pearl of great price, and it would take too much to explain it here, and you are not prepared to accept it anyways). And that is the same problem you have with the Matthew statement and many other passages: for you imagine that your understanding of the sayings and words that are written is the only way to translate and understand them. There is not just only one way to hear the Word, for there are seven Spirits before the throne: and when the Son of Elohim speaks there be seven thunders who utter their voices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenn View Post
    You are reducing the conversation to partisan politics to avoid speaking about the facts and the issue. Nice try.

    HEY you are a conservative !!

    (Good luck with that.)
    .

    Zenn

    ... and those c minuses.
    You know as well as I do, you can't fake grades. Nobody can. The 'veneer' of your or my proposition is as thick as your ability to think out of a paper bag. Do you know what though? Not nearly that bad as a slam. You are simply intimating I'm 'average.'

    The sad fact is, 'if' he used to get better grades, he's let it slide. Read everybody, not just me. Everyone has told him clearly his prowess is subpar whether it was is a different story.

    Whenever you submit your work for review, your teacher gives you a grade based on what you've done. There is no way this is A material.

    Back to the thread: I've answered. Simply 'asserting' is all that is going on here. To the degree you are complicit in poor thinking, er you are 'complicit in poor thinking' and theology. Own it.
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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