User Tag List

Page 8 of 164 FirstFirst ... 5678910111858108 ... LastLast
Results 106 to 120 of 2449

Thread: Scripture. What is considered Scripture?

  1. #106
    Over 1000 post club
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Atlanta area
    Posts
    1,224
    Thanks
    107
    Thanked 194 Times in 155 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    5173
    Jsanford, the Council of Cathage in 397 specified this canon:

    It was also determined that besides the Canonical Scriptures nothing be read in the Church under the title of divine Scriptures. The Canonical Scriptures are these: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua the son of Nun, Judges, Ruth, four books of Kings, two books of Paraleipomena, Job, the Psalter, five books of Solomon, the books of the twelve prophets, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezechiel, Daniel, Tobit, Judith, Esther, two books of Esdras, two Books of the Maccabees.

    17 Of the New Testament: four books of the Gospels, one book of the Acts of the Apostles, thirteen Epistles of the Apostle Paul, one epistle of the same [writer] to the Hebrews, two Epistles of the Apostle Peter, three of John, one of James, one of Jude, one book of the Apocalypse of John.

    18 So let the church over the sea be consulted to confirm this canon. Let it also be allowed that the Passions of Martyrs be read when their festivals are kept.

    20 Let this be made known also to our brother and fellow-priest Boniface, or to other bishops of those parts, for the purpose of confirming that Canon. Because we have received from our fathers that those books must be read in the Church.


    Is this the canon you accept? Note it exceeds 66 books.

    I prefer the NT canon of the Church of the East. It has a 22-book NT, which excludes the books Eusebius mentioned as disputed in his Church History from around 300 AD.

  2. #107
    Over 1000 post club
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Atlanta area
    Posts
    1,224
    Thanks
    107
    Thanked 194 Times in 155 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    5173
    P.S. you can find that canon from the Council of Carthage of 397 here:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Councils_of_Carthage

    And other places

  3. #108
    ☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) ☜☜☜☜☞☞☞☞ A Calvinist! ☜☜☜☜☜ Ask Mr. Religion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Chandler, Arizona USA
    Posts
    6,566
    Thanks
    4,301
    Thanked 3,788 Times in 2,152 Posts

    Blog Entries
    148
    Mentioned
    87 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)



    Rep Power
    2147686
    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    It is ironic that you would advise against taking Rome’s mythological bait while quoting a Roman Catholic Latin rewriting of lost Greek text.
    Rufinus did the translation of these homilies upon request (Barbara Bruce, trans., and Cynthia White, ed., Origen: Homilies On Joshua (Washington, D.C.: The Catholic University Of America Press, 2002, pp. 23-24). He could have interpolated a passage or altered the text in the process of doing a translation for somebody else, but the fact that he was doing the work at somebody else's request suggests that he wasn't so interested in altering the text as to initiate the process himself. He was doing a translation that somebody else asked him to do.

    "Other studies have confirmed the paraphrastic nature of his [Rufinus'] work, but have judged the changes to make for clarity and the thought to remain faithful to the Greek....After explaining how he had expended much labor on changing the hortatory manner of the homilies on Leviticus into the form of an exposition and supplying what was wanting in the homilies on Genesis and Exodus, he said he translated the homilies on Joshua and a few others 'just as we found them, literally and without great effort.' Annie Jaubert, in her French translation of the Homilies, supported Rufinus's statement. She noted constructions that were more dependent on Greek than on Latin syntax and a curtness of speech and density of expression that gave the feel of unpolished notes he may have been working from." (Barbara Bruce, trans., and Cynthia White, ed., Origen: Homilies On Joshua (Washington, D.C.: The Catholic University Of America Press, 2002, pp.16-18)

    Notice that Rufinus explained his different intentions in different contexts. Sometimes he intended to produce a paraphrase. Other times he intended a more literal rendering. And he specified that his work on Origen's Homilies On Joshua was a case of the latter.

    And exactly how much interest in canonical issues do we find in the writings of Rufinus? I and others are aware of only one passage in his writings in which he lists the New Testament canon, the commonly cited passage in his Commentary On The Apostles' Creed. He doesn't seem to have been so concerned about the New Testament canon as to be motivated to change the text of Origen.

    B.F. Westcott noted that this passage in Origen is "characteristic of Origen's style" (B.F. Westcott, A General Survey Of The History Of The New Testament Canon (New York: The MacMillan Co., 1896, p. 368). Barbara Bruce (op. cit., p. 74) notes the possible influence of Clement of Alexandria on a portion of the passage. Clement is more likely to have influenced Origen than to have influenced Rufinus.

    Both the internal and the external evidence are against the notion that the canon in this passage of Origen came from Rufinus.

    I could go on, but will let this end here lest I give you more of a platform for your oddities than is necessary or desired.

    AMR
    Embedded links in my posts or in my sig below are included for a reason. Tolle Lege.



    Do you confess?
    Founder, Reformed Theology Institute
    AMR's Randomata Blog
    Learn Reformed Doctrine
    I fear explanations explanatory of things explained.
    Christian, catholic, Calvinist, confessional, Presbyterian (PCA).
    Lex orandi, lex credenda: everyone is a Calvinist on their knees.
    The best TOL Social Group: here.
    If your username appears in blue and you have over 500 posts:
    Why?



  4. #109
    Over 1000 post club
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Atlanta area
    Posts
    1,224
    Thanks
    107
    Thanked 194 Times in 155 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    5173
    It is interesting that you quote a Catholic source to support this document after writing
    Don't take Rome's mythological history bait.


    The words of the document are quite inconsistent with the bulk of the work of Origen. He happens to mention as “received” the documents later declared canonical, did not mention 7 documents he quoted (some extensively) and called divinely inspired.

    So the writing has no credibility with me given its inconsistency with the undisputed works of Origen. You are welcome to embrace it if you choose, but I would only do so if I thought it appropriate to desperately seek to support the unsupportable.

    Would you now opine on the Luke/Mark staff difference?

  5. #110
    ☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) ☜☜☜☜☞☞☞☞ A Calvinist! ☜☜☜☜☜ Ask Mr. Religion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Chandler, Arizona USA
    Posts
    6,566
    Thanks
    4,301
    Thanked 3,788 Times in 2,152 Posts

    Blog Entries
    148
    Mentioned
    87 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)



    Rep Power
    2147686
    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    Would you now opine on the Luke/Mark staff difference?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    I could go on, but will let this end here lest I give you more of a platform for your oddities than is necessary or desired.
    AMR


    AMR
    Embedded links in my posts or in my sig below are included for a reason. Tolle Lege.



    Do you confess?
    Founder, Reformed Theology Institute
    AMR's Randomata Blog
    Learn Reformed Doctrine
    I fear explanations explanatory of things explained.
    Christian, catholic, Calvinist, confessional, Presbyterian (PCA).
    Lex orandi, lex credenda: everyone is a Calvinist on their knees.
    The best TOL Social Group: here.
    If your username appears in blue and you have over 500 posts:
    Why?



  6. #111
    BANNED God's Truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    38,504
    Thanks
    1,987
    Thanked 2,693 Times in 2,477 Posts

    Blog Entries
    3
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    P.S. you can find that canon from the Council of Carthage of 397 here:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Councils_of_Carthage

    And other places
    Nothing that you speak of is beneficial for life in Christ.

  7. #112
    Over 1000 post club
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Atlanta area
    Posts
    1,224
    Thanks
    107
    Thanked 194 Times in 155 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    5173
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post


    AMR
    I was sure you could not resolve the error. I just wanted to see if you would try.

  8. #113
    Over 1000 post club
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Atlanta area
    Posts
    1,224
    Thanks
    107
    Thanked 194 Times in 155 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    5173
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Nothing that you speak of is beneficial for life in Christ.
    On the contrary, the false doctrine of inerrancy of the scriptures has caused many people to abandon the faith. If people understand they can follow Jesus without following lies, it is helpful.

    A person who pretends Mark and Luke do not disagree on the words of Jesus prior to the missionary journey is elevating their false doctrine above what the scripture actually says. That is ironic.

  9. #114
    ☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) ☜☜☜☜☞☞☞☞ A Calvinist! ☜☜☜☜☜ Ask Mr. Religion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Chandler, Arizona USA
    Posts
    6,566
    Thanks
    4,301
    Thanked 3,788 Times in 2,152 Posts

    Blog Entries
    148
    Mentioned
    87 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)



    Rep Power
    2147686

    Exclamation The Alleged "staff" or "no staff" Synoptic "Problem"

    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    I was sure you could not resolve the error. I just wanted to see if you would try.
    I will indulge you as my foil this one final time.

    Matthew 10:1,9-10 (KJV)
    Matthew 10:1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
    Matthew 10:9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
    Matthew 10:10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.

    Mark 6:7-8 (KJV)
    Mark 6:7 And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;
    Mark 6:8 And commanded them that they should take nothing for their journey, save a staff only; no scrip, no bread, no money in their purse:

    Luke 9:1,3 (KJV)
    Luke 9:1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
    Luke 9:3 And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece.

    Matthew 10:10 includes a further clarification: Do not acquire a staff as special equipment for the tour of the twelve. Matthew 10:10 often is rendered with "extra" in the verse, as in

    Don't take a traveling bag for the road, or an extra shirt, sandals, or a walking stick, for the worker is worthy of his food. HCSB

    The word "extra" applies to shirt, sandals, or walkings stick. Naturally the solid KJV rendering catches the "extra" meanings in the pluralizations shown therein.

    Mark 6:8 teaches that this did not require that the disciples discard or leave behind the walking stick that they normally took with them wherever they went, while they were following Jesus. The twelve are to go about with the staff they had at the time, but they were not to seek one specially, or make it a condition of their travelling.

    For fun see a variety of renderings:
    Mark 6:8: https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/mARK%206%3A08
    Luke 9:3: https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Luke%209%3A03
    Matthew 10:10: https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/e...hew%2010%3A010

    No "synoptic problem" here or anywhere else in Holy Writ.

    Now please feel free to have the last word. I have no time to interact with anyone who denies the infallibility, and plenary verbal inspiration of Scripture. You are trying to function out of your weight class. Your fifteen minutes are up.

    AMR
    Embedded links in my posts or in my sig below are included for a reason. Tolle Lege.



    Do you confess?
    Founder, Reformed Theology Institute
    AMR's Randomata Blog
    Learn Reformed Doctrine
    I fear explanations explanatory of things explained.
    Christian, catholic, Calvinist, confessional, Presbyterian (PCA).
    Lex orandi, lex credenda: everyone is a Calvinist on their knees.
    The best TOL Social Group: here.
    If your username appears in blue and you have over 500 posts:
    Why?



  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Ask Mr. Religion For Your Post:

    glorydaz (November 30th, 2017)

  11. #115
    Over 1000 post club
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Atlanta area
    Posts
    1,224
    Thanks
    107
    Thanked 194 Times in 155 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    5173
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    I will indulge you as my foil this one final time.

    Matthew 10:1,9-10 (KJV)
    Matthew 10:1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
    Matthew 10:9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
    Matthew 10:10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.

    Mark 6:7-8 (KJV)
    Mark 6:7 And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;
    Mark 6:8 And commanded them that they should take nothing for their journey, save a staff only; no scrip, no bread, no money in their purse:

    Luke 9:1,3 (KJV)
    Luke 9:1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
    Luke 9:3 And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece.

    Matthew 10:10 includes a further clarification: Do not acquire a staff as special equipment for the tour of the twelve. Matthew 10:10 often is rendered with "extra" in the verse, as in

    Don't take a traveling bag for the road, or an extra shirt, sandals, or a walking stick, for the worker is worthy of his food. HCSB

    The word "extra" applies to shirt, sandals, or walkings stick. Naturally the solid KJV rendering catches the "extra" meanings in the pluralizations shown therein.

    Mark 6:8 teaches that this did not require that the disciples discard or leave behind the walking stick that they normally took with them wherever they went, while they were following Jesus. The twelve are to go about with the staff they had at the time, but they were not to seek one specially, or make it a condition of their travelling.

    For fun see a variety of renderings:
    Mark 6:8: https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/mARK%206%3A08
    Luke 9:3: https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Luke%209%3A03
    Matthew 10:10: https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/e...hew%2010%3A010

    No "synoptic problem" here or anywhere else in Holy Writ.

    Now please feel free to have the last word. I have no time to interact with anyone who denies the infallibility, and plenary verbal inspiration of Scripture. You are trying to function out of your weight class. Your fifteen minutes are up.

    AMR
    Since Luke Jesus said “take no staff,” you have simply chosen to deny what the text says.

    I have seen that approach many times. It should be embarrassing to anyone who uses it.

  12. #116
    Over 1000 post club
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Atlanta area
    Posts
    1,224
    Thanks
    107
    Thanked 194 Times in 155 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    5173
    It should say “Since in Luke...”

    Luke 9:3 He said to them, "Take nothing for your journey, no staff, nor bag, nor bread, nor money—not even an extra tunic...

    You deny what the text in Luke says, pretending it says “no extra staff.”

    When your doctrine causes you to deny what the Bible says, both your doctrine and your actions are inappropriate.

  13. #117
    BANNED God's Truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    38,504
    Thanks
    1,987
    Thanked 2,693 Times in 2,477 Posts

    Blog Entries
    3
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    On the contrary, the false doctrine of inerrancy of the scriptures has caused many people to abandon the faith. If people understand they can follow Jesus without following lies, it is helpful.
    The scriptures don't lie.
    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    A person who pretends Mark and Luke do not disagree on the words of Jesus prior to the missionary journey is elevating their false doctrine above what the scripture actually says. That is ironic.
    What kind of damage does staff make?
    You do more damage for not teaching people to read all the Bible.
    There are people who are not reasonable and they will fall away for such things as one staff or not more than one.

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to God's Truth For Your Post:

    jsanford108 (November 29th, 2017)

  15. #118
    Over 1000 post club
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Atlanta area
    Posts
    1,224
    Thanks
    107
    Thanked 194 Times in 155 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    5173
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    The scriptures don't lie.

    What kind of damage does staff make?
    You do more damage for not teaching people to read all the Bible.
    There are people who are not reasonable and they will fall away for such things as one staff or not more than one.
    If you get to the point that you can admit that “take no staff” means “take no staff,” rather than “don’t take two staffs,” let me know and we can do continue the discussion.

  16. #119
    BANNED God's Truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    38,504
    Thanks
    1,987
    Thanked 2,693 Times in 2,477 Posts

    Blog Entries
    3
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by 2003cobra View Post
    If you get to the point that you can admit that “take no staff” means “take no staff,” rather than “don’t take two staffs,” let me know and we can do continue the discussion.
    The scripture was PLAINLY about not packing anything, and it is clear that it was about not taking an extra staff.

    When you can humble yourself you would be wiser.

  17. #120
    Over 1000 post club
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Atlanta area
    Posts
    1,224
    Thanks
    107
    Thanked 194 Times in 155 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    5173
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    The scripture was PLAINLY about not packing anything, and it is clear that it was about not taking an extra staff.

    When you can humble yourself you would be wiser.
    If you get to the point that you can admit that “take no staff” means “take no staff,” rather than “don’t take two staffs,” let me know and we can continue the discussion.

    Luke 9:3 He said to them, "Take nothing for your journey, no staff, nor bag, nor bread, nor money—not even an extra tunic.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us