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Thread: Roy Moore, OJ Simpson, And why I don't believe you.

  1. #91
    Over 5000 post club fool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmoney View Post
    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/...rom-the-senate


    Over the last 48 hours, Republicans have been abandoning Roy Moore in droves. Last night on his Fox News show, Moore dead-ender Sean Hannity put Moore under a 24-hour deadline to prove his innocence or drop out of the race. In this climate it’s now widely assumed that should he be elected Moore either will be or should be expelled from the Senate over the multiple accusations of pursuing and in some cases assaulting teenage girls in the 1980s.

    ....

    But we’re dealing here with issues which must be given due weight and consideration apart from Moore’s alleged crimes. Our entire constitutional system is based on duly constituted elections for public officials. The ability for a house of Congress to expel one of its own members is a power so great that it contains within it the power to overturn our entire system of government. Our whole system of government is based on the idea that the people of individual states decide who will represent them in the Senate rather than the Senate deciding who will or won’t represent a given state.

    Yes, there are exceptions. And yes, the constitution explicitly gives the Senate the power to expel members. But the history is instructive. Fifteen senators have been expelled from the Senate in the history of the country. All of them were expelled for what amounted to treason and sedition. Fourteen of those were expelled in 1861 and 1862 for supporting the Confederacy. The one remaining was expelled in 1797 for conspiracy and treason tied to inciting the British to invade Spanish Florida. Each of the fifteen was expelled for treason, making war against the country itself, something that makes legitimately being a part of the government an impossibility.

    In fairness, twice in recent history, the Senate committee which reviews these matters recommended a senator for expulsion but the senators in question resigned before the Senate could vote. This was Harrison Williams in 1982 (bribery conviction in Abscam) and Bob Packwood for a long history of sexual harassment as Senator. I think proceedings may have also begun against John Ensign who got charged with financial crimes tied to an affair. But I’m not certain. In any case, he resigned.

    Packwood’s case is the most analogous. The Senate was preparing to expel him for a number of reasons. But they were all reasons rooted in a long history of sexual harassment and sexual misconduct. I don’t remember every particular but I believe there were numerous instances that would now be classed as assault. (What happened in Packwood’s case was that he kept a diary in which he detailed it all.) But those were things he did as a Senator and more or less right up to the point he was about to be booted. As I noted above, Senators have only been expelled from the Senate for sedition. Others who resigned from the Senate under threat of expulsion did so because they had been convicted of crimes or were found by the Senate to have violated rules as a senator.

    ...

    Having said all this, I’m not saying definitively that it would be wrong to expel Moore. What concerns me is that it is being treated as a simple and obvious expedient when it is, in fact, a completely unprecedented move and highly questionable in terms of the precedent it sets regardless of Moore’s past crimes. The party at issue here isn’t Moore. It’s Alabama voters. The polls released since this scandal broke do not show them in a very good light at all. But voters have a perfect right to be terrible.
    So, he's gonna win and be seated.
    Everyman is a voice in the dark.
    I II III IV

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  3. #92
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    Good article on how these scandals are selectively lensed in the media.

    http://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=372557
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
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    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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    Comment 34 is correct.
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Has Mitch McConnell said anything about Franken?
    Did he have time? It seems like that whole thing was less than one news cycle.
    Everyman is a voice in the dark.
    I II III IV

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    Quote Originally Posted by fool View Post
    So, the police have a trespass order against an assistant DA and there's no documentation?
    Sorry, I need documentation.
    There's no documentation that he was banned or "ran off".
    So it's not semantics, it's there's no evidence that any of this ever happened.
    My response was based on your focus on a ban. The semantics is that if store managers were unofficially trying to prevent him from hanging around then it's effectively the same thing as a ban. He was a problem and wasn't wanted around.

    There wouldn't be any documentation if it was unofficial.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kmoney View Post
    My response was based on your focus on a ban. The semantics is that if store managers were unofficially trying to prevent him from hanging around then it's effectively the same thing as a ban. He was a problem and wasn't wanted around.

    There wouldn't be any documentation if it was unofficial.
    So was he banned from the mall as the article implies or was he run off of select stores?
    Everyman is a voice in the dark.
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    The fact that a number of merchants were creeped out by him hanging around high school girls is just one more confirmation of the accusations.
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fool View Post
    30 sources but no proof. Where's the proof? Give me some proof. You're not going to get rid of this guy without proof.
    I don't think any amount of evidence would convince you. You can always choose not to believe someone. If this were a court of law, one reliable witness could constitute "proof". We have 30. What you have to balance is the credibility of the witnesses against the accused.


    Quote Originally Posted by fool View Post
    The 14 year old is the most compelling, phone records? that should be easy. Phone records showing Moore called her house on these occasions that she claims?
    Phone records from the 1970s? Are you nuts?

    Sorry, but you don't always have the luxury of smoking-gun evidence.
    Global warming denialists are like gravity denialists piloting a helicopter, determined to prove a point. We may not have time to actually persuade them of their mistake.

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  14. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by fool View Post
    Did he have time? It seems like that whole thing was less than one news cycle.
    He's the head R in the Senate, 2nd most powerful R in the country (sadly), as such never more than a spit away from mic and camera. Let's see him bloviate over this the way he did over Moore.
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    Roy Moore has been in office for years and the Washington Post has know about his background for years.
    He's been in state office, and I don't know what makes you think WaPo sat on a story for years. But if so....so what? Does that make it ok?


    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    It's not his background that is suspicious (they already knew), it is the timing of bringing it to national attention that smacks of politics.
    Ok. Not sure what the actual objection us supposed to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    Fool is not questioning whether one that is a child molester should be prosecuted.
    Fool agrees with that.
    Fool is questioning, as many others are, the timing of their concern for political gain.
    We all know how folks will keep information to themselves until there comes a time that revealing that info will benefit them and hurt the other side.
    Silent for years UNTIL it can be of use politically.
    Politics is being questioned, not child molestation.
    Actually, he questioned the motivations of the women coming forward. I pointed out that that isn't what happened.
    Global warming denialists are like gravity denialists piloting a helicopter, determined to prove a point. We may not have time to actually persuade them of their mistake.

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    The story, if true, would likely not unseat a judge.

    But let that judge try running for Senate and it's time to spring that story.

    There is NO WAY people who would use this story as a political weapon did not know about it before now. Moore has made way too many enemies.

    Besides, the GOP, half of the Uniparty, wants Moore gone as much as Democrats do. That's why I'm really interested to see what, if anything, McConnell says about Franken, a SEATED Senator.
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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    As for the mall banning thing, this is as close as Wikipedia gets to evidence:

    Multiple locals recounted having heard that Moore had been banned from the Gadsden Mall due to his pursuits of teenage girls there.
    Heresay.
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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    http://www.weeklystandard.com/scorec...rticle/2010508

    Not one Democrat, so far, calls on Franken to resign.
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fool View Post
    So was he banned from the mall as the article implies or was he run off of select stores?
    Not sure. The latter seems more likely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    There is NO WAY people who would use this story as a political weapon did not know about it before now. Moore has made way too many enemies.
    So, people who would make it a political weapon didn't know and the people now aren't using it as a political weapon?

    Besides, the GOP, half of the Uniparty, wants Moore gone as much as Democrats do. That's why I'm really interested to see what, if anything, McConnell says about Franken, a SEATED Senator.
    Do you think that McConnell would rather have a Democrat than Moore? The only way that would make sense to me is with the idea that they could more easily replace Jones after 1 term than replace Moore, but that's a risk when the Republicans are trying to make the most of their time with Trump and both houses. I'd wager that Moore is still better than a Democrat.

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