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Thread: Roy Moore, OJ Simpson, And why I don't believe you.

  1. #46
    Over 6000 post club rexlunae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fool View Post
    Sometimes when you frame a guilty man all people can see is the frame job.
    OJ Simpson might have done it and you might have convinced a jury of that based on the gloves and the shoe prints and left it alone. But they had to go spraying blood everywhere and then nobody believed anything they had to say that might have been the truth.

    Now comes Roy Moore who might really be a creep but he was the Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court TWICE (after getting removed once) so nobody is going to convince me that they just crawled out from under a rock and realized that the Roy Moore that is running for Senate is THAT Roy Moore they dated in high school. If the allegations are true then all these women just happened to wait until one month before the election to come forward.

    When it would do the most damage.

    And there's no time to investigate the claims.

    They are going to have to forgive me if I don't believe them.
    Well, that isn't what happened. Because Roy Moore was leading in an election for an important Senate seat, the Washington Post started digging into his background. They learned of old accusations that were not secret, but that were not widely known outside Gadsden. And they contacted the women and their friends for confirmation, leading them to run an article with 30 sources, all on the record. The first round of women didn't "come forward" all of a sudden. They picked up the phone when the Washington Post called. Later, additional women came forward, bolstered by the stories of others that had been brought to light.

    It all makes a lot more sense when you actually get the story straight.

    Also, the pattern for these harrassment stories against prominent people is that a small number of cases come to light, and that triggers a torrent.
    Global warming denialists are like gravity denialists piloting a helicopter, determined to prove a point. We may not have time to actually persuade them of their mistake.

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  3. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by fool View Post
    Sometimes when you frame a guilty man all people can see is the frame job.
    OJ Simpson might have done it and you might have convinced a jury of that based on the gloves and the shoe prints and left it alone. But they had to go spraying blood everywhere and then nobody believed anything they had to say that might have been the truth.

    Now comes Roy Moore who might really be a creep but he was the Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court TWICE (after getting removed once) so nobody is going to convince me that they just crawled out from under a rock and realized that the Roy Moore that is running for Senate is THAT Roy Moore they dated in high school. If the allegations are true then all these women just happened to wait until one month before the election to come forward.

    When it would do the most damage.

    And there's no time to investigate the claims.

    They are going to have to forgive me if I don't believe them.
    There are inconsistencies on both sides.

    There are inconsistencies with Moore's statement in his interview with Sean Hannity.
    He first said he did not recall ever dating an underage girl, and later said that he would never have dated an underage girl unless their mother agreed to it and that her mother not only agreed to it but encouraged her daughter to go out with him.

    And as you have pointed out, the signature is inconsistent with Moore's signature.

    So yeah, I too would like to see how these inconsistencies are rectified on both sides.

    We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
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    We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rexlunae View Post
    Well, that isn't what happened. Because Roy Moore was leading in an election for an important Senate seat, the Washington Post started digging into his background.
    Roy Moore has been in office for years and the Washington Post has know about his background for years.
    It's not his background that is suspicious (they already knew), it is the timing of bringing it to national attention that smacks of politics.

    Fool is not questioning whether one that is a child molester should be prosecuted.
    Fool agrees with that.
    Fool is questioning, as many others are, the timing of their concern for political gain.
    We all know how folks will keep information to themselves until there comes a time that revealing that info will benefit them and hurt the other side.
    Silent for years UNTIL it can be of use politically.
    Politics is being questioned, not child molestation.

    We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
    They already know monsters exist.
    We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

  5. #49
    Over 1500 post club nikolai_42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WizardofOz View Post
    Meanwhile, those who actually have something to lose by disavowing Moore are speaking out

    Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the majority leader, declared, “I believe the women.” Senator Cory Gardner of Colorado, the head of the Senate Republican campaign arm, said that the Senate should vote to expel Mr. Moore, a former State Supreme Court judge, if he won “because he does not meet the ethical and moral requirements of the United States Senate.”



    Roy Moore Is Accused of Sexual Misconduct by a Fifth Woman
    Actually, McConnell has quite a bit to lose if Moore wins. Someone as outspoken as Moore (and as clearly right wing) threatens what is a predominantly establishment set of elected representatives. McConnell backed Moore's opponent in the primary. The reason Moore is even a viable candidate is the same reason Trump was put in office. So this is clearly big for McConnell.

    I don't know if Moore is guilty, but all I've heard is second and third hand innuendo. Nothing concrete. The allegations by the women are conveniently very old. Why let him even get this far? Why not make an issue of it at the primary if this is all such common knowledge? Because it isn't very visible. So this is clearly intended to publicly bring down someone who many Republicans don't want elected. Again...justified or not? I don't know but it all seems too much like suggestion playing on the fact that those on the left (and middle, I suspect) don't like Moore at all. They would like nothing more than to prove him a hypocrite.

    So I would personally like to have McConnell answer one question - does he believe the women who accused George Bush? Why not make a statement to that effect if this is really about the abuse of power in the Republican party?
    If God promises life, He slayeth first; when He builds, He casteth all down first. God is no patcher; He cannot build on another's foundation. - William Tyndale

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    The Signature

    1. The 1977 Yearbook has a loop in the first downward stroke of the letter “R.” The actual signature does not.
    2. The middle of the uppercase “R” is mangled, and does not meet with the second upward stroke, as it does with the actual signature.
    3. The lowercase “y” has a large loop. The actual signature does not.
    4. The closing stroke of the signature with the letter “y” extends outward. The letter “y” in the actual signature extends upward, loops and then goes downward, after crossing the first loop of the uppercase “R” twice.
    5. The starting point begins at the top arch of the uppercase “M” and then loops before creating the first arch. In the actual signature, the starting point begins below the first arch, and does not have a loop.
    6. There is not a tail on the closing stroke of the uppercase “M.” In the actual signature, there is a tail.
    7. The first “o” is larger than the second “o.” In the actual signature, the second “o” is larger than the first “o.”
    8. The “e” in the 1977 year book signature has a small loop. The “e” in the actual signature has a large loop.Secondly, we will compare the “Olde Hickory House” to his printed name.
    9. The “e” is clearly different and has a starting point below the line, then loops. The actual printed “e” directly beings with the loop.
    10. The lowercase “r” is uppercase. In the actual printed writing, the “r” is clearly lowercase.
    11. The “y” has a curved dip. The actual printed “y” has a sharp angled stroke.
    12. The “o” is opened on the right. In the actual printed writing, the “o” is indented on the left and closed.


    Pic of signatures in spoiler:

    Spoiler








    We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
    They already know monsters exist.
    We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

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  8. #51
    Over 5000 post club WizardofOz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClimateSanity View Post
    How do you figure McConnell has something to lose by disavowing Moore?
    If the GOP establishment rejects Moore, they almost guarantee a democrat win. McConnell has an important senate seat to lose which will hinder GOP agendas in the senate. If Moore loses, McConnell loses a bit of power.
    “To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

    ― Theodore Roosevelt

    Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem

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    Quote Originally Posted by CabinetMaker View Post
    Times change.
    Sure.
    But molestation has not.
    It's not more abhorrent now than it was then.
    There have always been victims that speak up.

    Neither party disagreed that molestation was not abhorrent or that no one should speak up.

    But depending on which party side you were on, the response and spin on that info was vastly different to achieve favor for their party candidate, not the victim.
    The only time you see a party throw one of their own under the bus is when it can bolster the perspective approval ratings of their party to citizens.
    Otherwise, they look the other way of any misdeeds.

    We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
    They already know monsters exist.
    We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

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    TOL Legend The Barbarian's Avatar
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    Now, it appears that a democrat was sexually assaulting women in the same manner that Trump has.

    Sen. Al Franken apologized on Thursday after Los Angeles TV broadcaster Leeann Tweeden accused him of sexual harassment.

    https://www.aol.com/article/news/201...asnt/23279768/

    Yes, he admitted it and apologized, so he's not like Trump or Moore. The lady was an adult, so he's not like Moore.

    But there's no place for this kind of thing.

    I'd say he's in bigger trouble than Moore, since Franken has to face Minnesota voters and Moore's pedophilia has yet to turn most Alabama voters against him.
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

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  13. #54
    Censorship is the height of vanity Rusha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Now, it appears that a democrat was sexually assaulting women in the same manner that Trump has.

    Sen. Al Franken apologized on Thursday after Los Angeles TV broadcaster Leeann Tweeden accused him of sexual harassment.

    https://www.aol.com/article/news/201...asnt/23279768/

    Yes, he admitted it and apologized, so he's not like Trump or Moore. The lady was an adult, so he's not like Moore.

    But there's no place for this kind of thing.

    I'd say he's in bigger trouble than Moore, since Franken has to face Minnesota voters and Moore's pedophilia has yet to turn most Alabama voters against him.
    Indeed ...

    Oh no, wait. Fake news!
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    Quote Originally Posted by WizardofOz View Post
    If the GOP establishment rejects Moore, they almost guarantee a democrat win. McConnell has an important senate seat to lose which will hinder GOP agendas in the senate. If Moore loses, McConnell loses a bit of power.
    What makes you think McConnell cares about a Democrat win? It much more important to him that an anti establishment guy and evangelical church like Moore loses......no what what. A Democrat win is acceptable because the threat Moore poses is much more hurtful to McConnell than what a Democrat senator can do. McConnell wants somebody that will cooperate and play ball....not someone who will actually fight the liberal agenda like Moore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Now, it appears that a democrat was sexually assaulting women in the same manner that Trump has.

    Sen. Al Franken apologized on Thursday after Los Angeles TV broadcaster Leeann Tweeden accused him of sexual harassment.

    https://www.aol.com/article/news/201...asnt/23279768/

    Yes, he admitted it and apologized, so he's not like Trump or Moore. The lady was an adult, so he's not like Moore.

    But there's no place for this kind of thing.

    I'd say he's in bigger trouble than Moore, since Franken has to face Minnesota voters and Moore's pedophilia has yet to turn most Alabama voters against him.
    This is the kind of coming forward that we need. Franken is not facing an Election in less than a month. Time to verify (which was easy because there's pictures), he confessed, apologized, and she accepted the apology. Should be water under the bridge (unless there's others) but you're right that it is Minnesota and they're pretty straight laced.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClimateSanity View Post
    What makes you think McConnell cares about a Democrat win? It much more important to him that an anti establishment guy and evangelical church like Moore loses......no what what. A Democrat win is acceptable because the threat Moore poses is much more hurtful to McConnell than what a Democrat senator can do. McConnell wants somebody that will cooperate and play ball....not someone who will actually fight the liberal agenda like Moore.
    You sound like Ed Henry
    “To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

    ― Theodore Roosevelt

    Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem

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    Quote Originally Posted by fool View Post
    Gimme your best link. I'll watch it because you recomend it.
    That's the respect that being on this board with you for a decade earns.
    What did you think of the interview?
    “To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

    ― Theodore Roosevelt

    Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem

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    Quote Originally Posted by rexlunae View Post
    Well, that isn't what happened. Because Roy Moore was leading in an election for an important Senate seat, the Washington Post started digging into his background. They learned of old accusations that were not secret, but that were not widely known outside Gadsden. And they contacted the women and their friends for confirmation, leading them to run an article with 30 sources, all on the record. The first round of women didn't "come forward" all of a sudden. They picked up the phone when the Washington Post called. Later, additional women came forward, bolstered by the stories of others that had been brought to light.
    30 sources but no proof. Where's the proof? Give me some proof. You're not going to get rid of this guy without proof. The 14 year old is the most compelling, phone records? that should be easy. Phone records showing Moore called her house on these occasions that she claims?
    Everyman is a voice in the dark.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fool View Post
    This is the kind of coming forward that we need. Franken is not facing an Election in less than a month. Time to verify (which was easy because there's pictures), he confessed, apologized, and she accepted the apology. Should be water under the bridge (unless there's others) but you're right that it is Minnesota and they're pretty straight laced.
    While it is true that Franken's behavior was inexcusable, his straightforward admission and apology show wisdom and perhaps charactter. If Trump or Moore or Weinstein had done this from the start, they'd probably not be as despised as they are.

    Although it's probably true that on one-time lapse in behavior is more understandable than a pattern of abuse such as we see in the other three.
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

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