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Thread: God does not have a Father

  1. #91
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger 2 View Post
    There is no reason to insist that the speaker of Rev. 22:16 spoke at Rev. 22:12, 13 and the NASB (and all the other Bibles I cited) show the same.
    The speaker at Revelation 22:12-13 says, " come quickly."

    And what John said later makes it plain that the speaker is Jesus Christ:

    "He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus"
    (Rev.22:20).

    The one who said "I come quickly" at verse 12 is the one to whom John says, "come, Lord Jesus."

    It is the Lord Jesus who is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, and that means that the Lord Jesus is God:

    "And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son"
    (Rev.21:6-7).

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    Over 4000 post club 1Mind1Spirit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Whatever its meaning it is in regard to God and God alone:

    "And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son" (Rev.21:6-7).

    Here are the words of the Lord Jesus:

    "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).

    You can't say that you haven't been warned!
    Thanks for your concern.

    But I'm sure I have nothing to fear in believing Jesus is God's son.

    If there's something more he wants me to know he will show me in due time.

    That being said, work out your own salvation.

  3. #93
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Mind1Spirit View Post
    But I'm sure I have nothing to fear in believing Jesus is God's son.
    You have nothing to fear if you understand that the phrase "Son of God" speaks of the Lord Jesus' nature as being God.

    When the Apostle Paul denounced Elymas the sorcerer as "Thou son of the devil" (Acts 13:10) the Jews would have understand his words as describing the man's character and nature. And when the Jews heard the Lord Jesus refer to Himself as the Son of God they understood that He was claiming that His nature was that of God (Jn.10:33-36).

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    Rookie Tigger 2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    You have nothing to fear if you understand that the phrase "Son of God" speaks of the Lord Jesus' nature as being God.

    When the Apostle Paul denounced Elymas the sorcerer as "Thou son of the devil" (Acts 13:10) the Jews would have understand his words as describing the man's character and nature. And when the Jews heard the Lord Jesus refer to Himself as the Son of God they understood that He was claiming that His nature was that of God (Jn.10:33-36).
    Even if you are correct about 'character and nature' that still does not make Elymas ('a son of the devil') the Devil or even equal to the Devil. He may have some characteristic of the Devil, but he is in no way equal to the Devil! - compare John 8:44.

    In the same way, understanding those called 'sons of God' or 'the son of God,' certainly does not make them God or equally God!! - compare Luke 3:38; Job 38:7; Ps. 89:6; Matt. 5:9.
    Last edited by Tigger 2; December 7th, 2017 at 08:51 PM.

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    LIFETIME MEMBER meshak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    You have nothing to fear if you understand that the phrase "Son of God" speaks of the Lord Jesus' nature as being God.
    I don't have anything to fear believing Jesus is Son of God without changing to God the Son.

    You are correcting Jesus' own word.

    what a concept.
    If you want to be true to God and Jesus, abandon any kind of violence at all cost. By advocating any kind of violence, you are misrepresenting Christianity.

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    Over 4000 post club 1Mind1Spirit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger 2 View Post
    Even if you are correct about 'character and nature' that still does not make Elymas ('a son of the devil') the Devil or even equal to the Devil. He may have some characteristic of the Devil, but he is in no way equal to the Devil! - compare John 8:44.
    I like that translation.

    We know that Jesus did not speak from his own resources.

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    LIFETIME MEMBER meshak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Mind1Spirit View Post
    I like that translation.

    We know that Jesus did not speak from his own resources.
    His resources are His Father's word.
    If you want to be true to God and Jesus, abandon any kind of violence at all cost. By advocating any kind of violence, you are misrepresenting Christianity.

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    Over 4000 post club 1Mind1Spirit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meshak View Post
    His resources are His Father's word.


    John 12:49 (ASV) For I spake not from myself; but the Father that sent me, he hath given me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

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    Over 4000 post club oatmeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    You have nothing to fear if you understand that the phrase "Son of God" speaks of the Lord Jesus' nature as being God.

    When the Apostle Paul denounced Elymas the sorcerer as "Thou son of the devil" (Acts 13:10) the Jews would have understand his words as describing the man's character and nature. And when the Jews heard the Lord Jesus refer to Himself as the Son of God they understood that He was claiming that His nature was that of God (Jn.10:33-36).
    Elymas was no more the Devil himself or a third of a triune Devil, than Jesus is God himself or part of a triune god
    "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

    "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

    Pro scripture = Protestant

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    Tigger 2 (Yesterday)

  16. #100
    Over 4000 post club oatmeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    The speaker at Revelation 22:12-13 says, " come quickly."

    And what John said later makes it plain that the speaker is Jesus Christ:

    "He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus"
    (Rev.22:20).

    The one who said "I come quickly" at verse 12 is the one to whom John says, "come, Lord Jesus."

    It is the Lord Jesus who is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, and that means that the Lord Jesus is God:

    "And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son"
    (Rev.21:6-7).
    God is everywhere present.

    God is already everywhere.

    He does not have to go anywhere to be at any place.

    Jesus Christ however, does have to go somewhere to be at that somewhere because Jesus Christ is not everywhere present, or else he would already be there, thus not needing to announce, "I come quickly"

    John understood that, why can't you?

    Jesus Christ and God both claim to be the alpha and the omega

    Jesus Christ was in his Father's business.

    God is in the alpha and omega business, and the son of God follows in his Father's footsteps like a good son would

    Jesus Christ made sure no one snatched those with eternal life away, just like his father. see the context of John 10:30 They are one in purpose, not one in identity.

    To say that Jesus and the Father are one in identity is to state that Jesus is the Father and the Father is Jesus, thus if you claim to be a trinitarian you just lost one of your three gods, for two of them are identical, they are the same person, if your interpretation of John 10:30 is to be believed instead of simply being mouthed

    As for Rev 21:6-7, who is the person that overcame ?

    It is Jesus Christ that overcame.

    Jesus Christ is the son of God, God is Jesus' God and Jesus is the son of God.
    "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

    "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

    Pro scripture = Protestant

  17. #101
    Over 4000 post club oatmeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Whatever its meaning it is in regard to God and God alone:

    "And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son" (Rev.21:6-7).

    Here are the words of the Lord Jesus:

    "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).

    You can't say that you haven't been warned!
    Jesus Christ is the beginning of what? God's plan for man's redemption and salvation in action.

    Jesus Christ accomplished our redemption and salvation, It is finished. He is the end of it. There is no more to be done except for man to believe God's word and thus believe Romans 10:9-10 and I Timothy 2:4
    "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

    "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

    Pro scripture = Protestant

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