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Thread: Moment of Salvation Compared to Water Baptism

  1. #946
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Believe WHAT???!!!
    Are you not even aware that "believing" and "obeying" are not the same thing. The Lord Jesus said that those who believe in Him will be raised up on the last day. He didn't say believe and obey.

    Since you cannot even understand these simple things it becomes clear that you are being referred to in this verse:

    "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned"
    (1 Cor.2:14).

    Those of us who are born of God know the things which are "freely" given to us but according to you we must work for those things:

    "Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God"
    (1 Cor.2:12).

    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    John 8:51 Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death."

    "Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death"
    (KJV).

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  3. #947
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    So Paul and those with him were in error when they answered the following question in the way that they did?:

    "And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).

    You should worry less about obedience and concentrate on actually believing what the Scriptures say. Any obedience which you think you might have done will come to nothing unless you believe the truth revealed in the Bible.



    It is your teaching which nullifies the teaching of the Lord Jesus when He walked the earth:

    "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day"
    (Jn.6:40).

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to glorydaz For Your Post:

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  5. #948
    TOL Legend God's Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Are you not even aware that "believing" and "obeying" are not the same thing.
    Jesus says to believe, so believe is obeying if you do it.
    Believing without obedience is dead, like a dead body.

    James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    The Lord Jesus said that those who believe in Him will be raised up on the last day. He didn't say believe and obey.
    Jesus said to believe in him. Believe in him about what? Believe in what he says. What does he say? Jesus says to repent of your sins. It is why he died. You don't want to come to the Father through Jesus and have those sins washed away? Think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post

    Since you cannot even understand these simple things it becomes clear that you are being referred to in this verse:

    "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned"
    (1 Cor.2:14).
    You don't understand that scripture because you weren't given understanding.
    Understanding is given to people who obey.

    John 14:21 The person who has my commandments and obeys them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will reveal myself to him."

    Psalm 119:100 I have more understanding than the elders, for I obey your precepts.

    Proverbs 3:32 For the LORD detests the perverse but takes the upright into his confidence.

    Proverbs 1:23 Repent at my rebuke! Then I will pour out my thoughts to you, I will make known to you my teachings.

    See Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight.

    John 7:17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.

    John 8:30 While he was saying these things, many people believed in him. 31Then Jesus said to those Judeans who had believed him, "If you continue to follow my teaching, you are really my disciples

    2 Timothy 2:25 correcting opponents with gentleness. Perhaps God will grant them repentance and then knowledge of the truth.

    Luke 11:28 He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."


    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post

    Those of us who are born of God know the things which are "freely" given to us but according to you we must work for those things:

    "Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God"
    (1 Cor.2:12).


    "Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death"
    (KJV).
    All the scriptures that say 'believe', they don't nullify all the words that say 'obey' and 'repent'.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

  6. #949
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Are you not even aware that "believing" and "obeying" are not the same thing. The Lord Jesus said that those who believe in Him will be raised up on the last day. He didn't say believe and obey.

    Since you cannot even understand these simple things it becomes clear that you are being referred to in this verse:

    "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned"
    (1 Cor.2:14).

    Those of us who are born of God know the things which are "freely" given to us but according to you we must work for those things:

    "Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God"
    (1 Cor.2:12).



    "Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death"
    (KJV).
    Actually, there is a required obedience during this Mystery Age also.

    The obedience of faith - of simply believing...

    The obedience of that righteousness which is not of the law, rather, of faith.

    Of simply believing that the faith of Christ: the Cross in our stead, was more than sufficient.

    Rom. 5: 6-8.

  7. #950
    TOL Legend God's Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    Actually, there is a required obedience during this Mystery Age also.

    The obedience of faith - of simply believing...

    The obedience of that righteousness which is not of the law, rather, of faith.

    Of simply believing that the faith of Christ: the Cross in our stead, was more than sufficient.

    Rom. 5: 6-8.
    Faith is definitely obeying. However, obedience to the faith doesn't mean you don't have to obeying anything else.

    Romans 1:5 King James Bible
    By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:


    The old law did not require faith, even though some Jews had it. The old law required works of the law, and those works were the purification works, wherein the person had to clean themselves. There were many purification works that every person had to do to clean themselves.
    Since Jesus, no one has to do those works purification works of the law anymore; all one has to do to be made clean now is to believe that Jesus' blood cleans them, of the sins they repent of doing.

    That is the not of by works Paul preached. Paul never taught that no one has to obey God anymore. Not of by works means you don't have to clean yourself by getting circumcised and offering the blood of animals, etc.

    We still have to obey Jesus by not committing adultery, not lusting, not murdering, not getting angry, not stealing, being content with what we have, caring for family members, not bearing false witness, not gossiping, thinking good thoughts, etc.

    Jesus doesn't even save a person and clean them and make his home with them unless they repent of their sins, and have forgiveness in their heart. One must ask for forgiveness to God for your sins and be forgiving to those who sinned and sin against you. You are to call on Jesus to help you, to save you.

    During the time of Jesus and then later just the apostles on the earth laying the foundation, the apostles did many things during this special time like no other; God testified to what they said as truth by allowing them to speak in tongues, heal people, and raise the dead. This was the time also when Gentiles where being saved, and they were being saved without searching for God, without looking for God. The apostles came to them and said God has now ordained, appointed your race to be able to be saved too, even though you were enemies to God by not getting circumcised when He commanded, etc. God was offering salvation to the Jews and to the Gentiles before the Gentiles searched for Him; this was during the laying of the foundation. As the foundation was still being laid, and the scriptures being written by letter, the people were hearing the truth, the true gospel, they knew it was true because it was the apostles preaching it and God testified to it by signs and miracles. If someone wanted to be saved, all they had to do is to go into one of the homes where church was being held, or answer their own front door when an apostle or disciple came knocking; or all they had to do was be in the market place, or synagogue, or they could go to Paul's own house.

    Now a days if one wants to be saved, they have to weed through all the many false doctrines implanted by Satan and his demons. We have the scriptures now of the old and new. If one wants to find God, a God whom they heard about from other people here and there, they can get a Bible and search for Jesus' teachings and then obey those teaching and be saved.

    One learns not to ever give up, give out, or give in, it could take time, and nothing is more important. Jesus himself saves, and we have his words more available. But there is an onslaught of false teachings ready to confuse the one who wants to be saved. There are denominations that will hinder one and succeed with the person never being saved in this life. There will be denominations and false doctrines to confuse and detour the believer with things that are not of God.

    We are told to train ourselves, to work out our salvation. We are to stay humble with that forgiving heart, as we ask for forgiveness and repent on our road to the end. We are warned to be careful, to watch our lives and doctrine closely. How does anyone get that we don't have to do anything is a teaching one must recognize as strange and unreasonable.

    God's Word is true and life. Never ever is obeying the cause of confusion and condemnation.
    If anyone is in the snare of the devil to believe and preach falseness, all one has to do is humble themselves and repent, believe the truth that obeying and repenting is what the Way teaches and leads us.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

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