User Tag List

Page 39 of 64 FirstFirst ... 293637383940414249 ... LastLast
Results 571 to 585 of 950

Thread: Moment of Salvation Compared to Water Baptism

  1. #571
    TOL Legend God's Truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    38,504
    Thanks
    1,987
    Thanked 2,693 Times in 2,477 Posts

    Blog Entries
    3
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    Why did Peter COMMAND they be baptized? If Cornelius is the norm then why were no other converts commanded to be baptized?
    God wants us to get water baptized.

    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post

    It is not a denomination. There is no headquarters other than in heaven, no creed other than the bible. We are set up just like the church Jesus died for and we read about in scripture.
    It is a denomination.

    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post

    Baptist-Christian Catholic-Christian We are merely Christians with Christ name on our building. What name is on your building??
    I belong to the body of Christ.
    I do not join a denomination because they all preach some falseness.
    The denomination you belong has a lot of truth but ruins it by claiming no one receives the Holy Spirit before a water baptism.


    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    You did not give a scripture so I had to assume who you were talking about, Simon. Who are you talking about?
    The people in Samaria were water baptized but they did not receive the Holy Spirit. Peter and John had to come and they prayed for them to receive the Holy Spirit because they had not received the Spirit.

    Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

    Acts 8:14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit."
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

  2. #572
    Over 3000 post club turbosixx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,558
    Thanks
    174
    Thanked 269 Times in 240 Posts

    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    134749
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    God wants us to get water baptized.
    Sorry, but that doesn't answer my question. Why did Peter COMMAND them to be baptized in this case and not in any other conversion?


    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    It is a denomination.
    Then what is not a denomination?



    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    I belong to the body of Christ.
    I do not join a denomination because they all preach some falseness.
    The denomination you belong has a lot of truth but ruins it by claiming no one receives the Holy Spirit before a water baptism.
    What is the name on your building?


    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    The people in Samaria were water baptized but they did not receive the Holy Spirit. Peter and John had to come and they prayed for them to receive the Holy Spirit because they had not received the Spirit.

    Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

    Acts 8:14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit."
    I would suggest you are confusing receiving the spiritual gifts of the Holy Spirit with being saved. The Spiritual gifts could only be given by the laying of apostles hands. If you will notice, they didn't receive the gifts without the laying of hands.
    Acts 8:18 Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money,

    Rom. 1:11 For I long to see you, that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to strengthen you—
    2 Tim. 1:6 For this reason I remind you to fan into flame the gift of God, which is in you through the laying on of my hands,

    To say that they were not saved until the apostles prayed for them and laid hands on them is setting a dangerous precedent.
    How do we know that all the people who have been baptized in the name of Jesus for the last 2,000 years are saved without the prays and hands of the apostles?
    Wretched man that I am.

  3. #573
    TOL Legend God's Truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    38,504
    Thanks
    1,987
    Thanked 2,693 Times in 2,477 Posts

    Blog Entries
    3
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    I would disagree. Paul does not question they are believers.
    The scripture says they found some 'disciples'.

    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post

    He never teaches them about Jesus only straightens out the issue of baptism.
    No, he tells them about the Holy Spirit, whom they did not even know there was one.

    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    If you will read the end of Acts 18, you will see why Paul does not teach them Jesus.
    Acts 18:24 Now a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was an eloquent man, competent in the Scriptures. 25 He had been instructed in the way of the Lord. And being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things concerning Jesus, though he knew only the baptism of John. 26 He began to speak boldly in the synagogue, but when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately. 27 And when he wished to cross to Achaia, the brothers encouraged him and wrote to the disciples to welcome him. When he arrived, he greatly helped those who through grace had believed, 28 for he powerfully refuted the Jews in public, showing by the Scriptures that the Christ was Jesus.
    We see Apollos taught Jesus accurately but only knew John's baptism. That's why there were believers but had not been baptized into Jesus' name.

    V.27 Apollos went to Achaia which is where Corinth is located. While Apollos was there Paul rolls into Ephesus.

    19:1 And it happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the inland[a] country and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples. 2 And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 3 And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into John's baptism.” 4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking in tongues and prophesying.
    If they were disciples of John, they would not know Jesus died for their sins and we would see Paul telling them that.
    That is problematic because you are writing into the scriptures something that might not be accurate. John the baptizer proclaimed that Jesus was the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. The Jews knew that lambs were sacrificed and purified people of their sins.
    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    He doesn't because the only thing they didn't know accurately was baptism.
    They were water baptized by John and it was a baptism of repentance. That is what water baptism is for.

    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    That's why he doesn't question if they believed, or if they knew Jesus, he only teaches them about baptism. Then he baptizes them right before giving them the Holy Spirit.
    I am not sure why you are still missing it. Paul asks them if they received the Holy Spirit when they believed. They say they never heard of the Holy Spirit. So I ask you, how are they to believe in the Holy Spirit if they did not even know he existed? Paul then tells them that John says to believe in Jesus and Paul baptizes them with the Holy Spirit. They receive the Holy Spirit after they were told about the Holy Spirit. They were already water baptized before so they now only needed the Holy Spirit.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

  4. #574
    Over 3000 post club turbosixx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,558
    Thanks
    174
    Thanked 269 Times in 240 Posts

    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    134749
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    I am not sure why you are still missing it. Paul asks them if they received the Holy Spirit when they believed. They say they never heard of the Holy Spirit. So I ask you, how are they to believe in the Holy Spirit if they did not even know he existed? Paul then tells them that John says to believe in Jesus and Paul baptizes them with the Holy Spirit. They receive the Holy Spirit after they were told about the Holy Spirit. They were already water baptized before so they now only needed the Holy Spirit.
    From my viewpoint you are missing it.

    John did not witness nor teach Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. That is of first importance to becoming a Christian.
    1 Cor. 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.
    That is the foundation of Christianity. John didn't witness it nor teach it. Paul could not have given them the Holy Spirit without them knowing that. Apollos taught them everything but the proper baptism.
    Wretched man that I am.

  5. #575
    Over 3000 post club turbosixx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,558
    Thanks
    174
    Thanked 269 Times in 240 Posts

    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    134749
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    They receive the Holy Spirit after they were told about the Holy Spirit. They were already water baptized before so they now only needed the Holy Spirit.
    This is not the correct sequence found in the passage. They were baptized in the name of Jesus before they received the Holy Spirit.

    v.5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
    How do we know what it means to be baptized in the name of Jesus?
    Acts 10:47 Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

    Then after being baptized in the name of in v.6 And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking in tongues and prophesying.
    Wretched man that I am.

  6. #576
    TOL Legend God's Truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    38,504
    Thanks
    1,987
    Thanked 2,693 Times in 2,477 Posts

    Blog Entries
    3
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    Sorry, but that doesn't answer my question. Why did Peter COMMAND them to be baptized in this case and not in any other conversion?
    Why do you say it doesn’t answer your question? God wants us to get water baptized. They were already saved and Peter said to water baptism them.
    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    Then what is not a denomination?
    A religious denomination is a subgroup within a religion that operates under a common name, tradition, and identity. The term refers to the various Christian denominations.
    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    What is the name on your building?
    I do not belong to a denomination so why do you think there is a building?

    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post

    I would suggest you are confusing receiving the spiritual gifts of the Holy Spirit with being saved.
    They did not get saved yet because they did not have the Holy Spirit.

    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post

    The Spiritual gifts could only be given by the laying of apostles hands. If you will notice, they didn't receive the gifts without the laying of hands.
    Acts 8:18 Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money,

    Rom. 1:11 For I long to see you, that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to strengthen you—
    2 Tim. 1:6 For this reason I remind you to fan into flame the gift of God, which is in you through the laying on of my hands,
    Paul gave the Holy Spirit by laying hands.
    During the laying of the foundation, gifts were given to show that a person was saved.
    It is how God testified to what the apostles taught as being from God.

    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post

    To say that they were not saved until the apostles prayed for them and laid hands on them is setting a dangerous precedent.
    No one is saved unless they receive the Holy Spirit.
    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post

    How do we know that all the people who have been baptized in the name of Jesus for the last 2,000 years are saved without the prays and hands of the apostles?
    When there were apostles who walked the earth, they helped lay the foundation. God testified to what they said by allowing them to give gifts of the Holy Spirit and other miracles such as healing people and raising the dead.

    God already testified to the gospel, and the foundation has already been laid.
    We are given the Holy Spirit by Jesus himself now.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

  7. #577
    TOL Legend God's Truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    38,504
    Thanks
    1,987
    Thanked 2,693 Times in 2,477 Posts

    Blog Entries
    3
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    From my viewpoint you are missing it.

    John did not witness nor teach Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. That is of first importance to becoming a Christian.
    1 Cor. 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.
    That is the foundation of Christianity. John didn't witness it nor teach it. Paul could not have given them the Holy Spirit without them knowing that. Apollos taught them everything but the proper baptism.
    Even Paul says John told you to believe in the one who comes after him.

    Acts 19:4 Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus."

    John 1:29
    The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

  8. #578
    Over 3000 post club turbosixx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,558
    Thanks
    174
    Thanked 269 Times in 240 Posts

    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    134749
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Why do you say it doesn’t answer your question? God wants us to get water baptized. They were already saved and Peter said to water baptism them.
    Peter didn't just say to baptize them, he commanded. Why did he command it?
    The same Greek word for command is used here:
    Matt. 1:24 When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife,

    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    I do not belong to a denomination so why do you think there is a building?
    You do not meet with other Christians in a building? House? Under a tree?


    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    They did not get saved yet because they did not have the Holy Spirit.
    Only the apostles laid hands giving the Holy Spirit. What about the eunuch, is he saved? Philip was not an apostle.
    Acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him.


    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Paul gave the Holy Spirit by laying hands.
    During the laying of the foundation, gifts were given to show that a person was saved.
    It is how God testified to what the apostles taught as being from God.
    I agree that God testified to their word. While I agree we can know someone is saved by being given spiritual gifts, I don't agree that's why they were given. The bible doesn't say that.

    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    We are given the Holy Spirit by Jesus himself now.
    How do you know you have been given the Holy Spirit?
    Wretched man that I am.

  9. #579
    TOL Legend God's Truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    38,504
    Thanks
    1,987
    Thanked 2,693 Times in 2,477 Posts

    Blog Entries
    3
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    This is not the correct sequence found in the passage.
    That is not true.

    5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.

    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    They were baptized in the name of Jesus before they received the Holy Spirit.
    And this is what I said: "They receive the Holy Spirit after they were told about the Holy Spirit. They were already water baptized before so they now only needed the Holy Spirit."

    Now why are you saying wrong sequence?

    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post

    v.5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
    How do we know what it means to be baptized in the name of Jesus?
    Acts 10:47 Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
    Because they were already given the Holy Spirit and saved.

    In the other scriptures with Samaria, they were water baptized and not given the Holy Spirit, they had merely been baptized in the name and it was of no effect because they did not receive the Holy Spirit.
    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    Then after being baptized in the name of in v.6 And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking in tongues and prophesying.
    Right.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

  10. #580
    Over 3000 post club turbosixx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,558
    Thanks
    174
    Thanked 269 Times in 240 Posts

    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    134749
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Even Paul says John told you to believe in the one who comes after him.

    Acts 19:4 Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus."

    John 1:29
    The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world.
    What did John teach about Jesus? Is that enough to be a Christian?
    Wretched man that I am.

  11. #581
    Over 3000 post club turbosixx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,558
    Thanks
    174
    Thanked 269 Times in 240 Posts

    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    134749
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    That is not true.

    5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.



    And this is what I said: "They receive the Holy Spirit after they were told about the Holy Spirit. They were already water baptized before so they now only needed the Holy Spirit."

    Now why are you saying wrong sequence?
    Correct me if I'm wrong. They were first water baptized into John's baptism. Then Paul baptizes (water) them in the name of Jesus then he lays hands on them and that is when they receive the Holy Spirit. Is that how you see it?
    Wretched man that I am.

  12. #582
    Over 3000 post club turbosixx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,558
    Thanks
    174
    Thanked 269 Times in 240 Posts

    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    134749
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    In the other scriptures with Samaria, they were water baptized and not given the Holy Spirit, they had merely been baptized in the name and it was of no effect because they did not receive the Holy Spirit.
    How do we die with Christ?
    Wretched man that I am.

  13. #583
    TOL Legend God's Truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    38,504
    Thanks
    1,987
    Thanked 2,693 Times in 2,477 Posts

    Blog Entries
    3
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    Peter didn't just say to baptize them, he commanded. Why did he command it?
    The same Greek word for command is used here:
    Matt. 1:24 When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife,
    Why are you having such a hard time with this? It was a major happening that the Gentiles could be included in salvation. Peter commanded that they be water baptized because they were saved and water baptism is commanded by God.

    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    You do not meet with other Christians in a building? House? Under a tree?
    I don’t belong to a denomination.

    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    I agree that God testified to their word. While I agree we can know someone is saved by being given spiritual gifts, I don't agree that's why they were given. The bible doesn't say that.
    The Bible does say it.

    Hebrews 2:4 God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.

    Acts 14:3 So Paul and Barnabas spent considerable time there, speaking boldly for the Lord, who confirmed the message of his grace by enabling them to perform signs and wonders.

    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    How do you know you have been given the Holy Spirit?
    Do you not know?
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

  14. #584
    TOL Legend God's Truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    38,504
    Thanks
    1,987
    Thanked 2,693 Times in 2,477 Posts

    Blog Entries
    3
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    What did John teach about Jesus? Is that enough to be a Christian?
    Jesus saves those he accepts. He knows everyone's heart. Jesus tells us who he saves; he saves those who believe and obey him.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

  15. #585
    TOL Legend God's Truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    38,504
    Thanks
    1,987
    Thanked 2,693 Times in 2,477 Posts

    Blog Entries
    3
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong. They were first water baptized into John's baptism. Then Paul baptizes (water) them in the name of Jesus then he lays hands on them and that is when they receive the Holy Spirit. Is that how you see it?
    Where does it say water? They were already baptized with water. I believe Paul said he baptizes them in the name of Jesus and then he laid his hands on them and then they received the Holy Spirit.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us