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Thread: Moment of Salvation Compared to Water Baptism

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    From your understanding, did Jesus nail the old covenant to the cross or no?
    Jesus didn't "nail" anything to anything.. He died on a cross to fulfill the LAW. The LAW is NOW a Personality, . . . HIM. Why not get understanding about what redemption accomplished?
    "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cross Reference View Post
    Jesus didn't "nail" anything to anything.. He died on a cross to fulfill the LAW. The LAW is NOW a Personality, . . . HIM.
    Col. 2:14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.

    Face value
    Wretched man that I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    From your understanding, did Jesus nail the old covenant to the cross or no?
    Since you think that Paul, the apostle of the gentiles, and the 12 apostles for the 12 tribes of Israel preached exactly the same thing.... Show us where anyone BUT Paul said anything that would make you think that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    Col. 2:14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.

    Face value
    Why is Paul the only one to say that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    [QUOTE=turbosixx;5142756]
    I agree KJB is good grammar.
    No, you don't.

    I accept it at face value 100%.
    That's a lie.

    The KJB is Greek translated into English.
    You mean Greek translated into English, correct? I agree.

    To understand what it's telling us, we have to use the rules of grammar. If we do not, then how can anyone understand what is truth?
    That is further evidence yu DON"T believe the KJV, "face value" by insinuating it is poor grammar.

    You do not use the rules of grammar or context to understand what the bible is saying. I can only assume because you like what you understand to be truth and don't want to change it.
    Neither does my Yak shepherd friend in lower Siberia who reveals his love to God from a pure heart plus nothing.

    I have Strongs and other qualified helps that don't seek to cast a shadow on what has been accepted for humdreds of years if not, thousands of years as the truth of it all.

    Saying the 120 were baptized with the Holy Spirit violates the rules of grammar, the context and common sense.
    Only in your elitist, prideful, heart.
    "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Since you think that Paul, the apostle of the gentiles, and the 12 apostles for the 12 tribes of Israel preached exactly the same thing.... Show us where anyone BUT Paul said anything that would make you think that.
    Is this your way of avoiding the question?

    The proof is in the pudding. Paul and the 12 taught the same thing, Christ.

    Addressing Israel
    Peter: 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words;
    Paul: 16 Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel,

    Christ descended from David
    Peter: 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
    Paul: 23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Savior, Jesus:

    Christ died
    Peter: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
    Paul: 28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain.

    David saw decay
    Peter: 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
    Paul: 36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

    Christ did not see decay
    Peter: 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
    Paul: 37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.


    Jesus resurrected
    Peter: 32 This Jesus hath God raised up,
    Paul: 30 But God raised him from the dead:

    People witnessed the resurrection
    Peter: 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
    Paul: 31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people.

    Forgiveness of sins through Jesus
    Peter: 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
    Paul: 38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

    Jesus is Israel’s savior
    Peter: 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
    Paul: 23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Savior, Jesus:
    Wretched man that I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    Is this your way of avoiding the question?

    The proof is in the pudding. Paul and the 12 taught the same thing, Christ.

    Addressing Israel
    Peter: 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words;
    Paul: 16 Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel,

    Christ descended from David
    Peter: 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
    Paul: 23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Savior, Jesus:

    Christ died
    Peter: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
    Paul: 28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain.

    David saw decay
    Peter: 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
    Paul: 36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

    Christ did not see decay
    Peter: 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
    Paul: 37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.


    Jesus resurrected
    Peter: 32 This Jesus hath God raised up,
    Paul: 30 But God raised him from the dead:

    People witnessed the resurrection
    Peter: 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
    Paul: 31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people.

    Forgiveness of sins through Jesus
    Peter: 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
    Paul: 38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

    Jesus is Israelís savior
    Peter: 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
    Paul: 23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Savior, Jesus:
    Mid-Acts Dispensationalists do NOT deny that they both taught SOME things in common. Paul did NOT receive revelation that contradicted what came BEFORE and he 100% CONFIRMED it.

    But Paul was given ADDITIONAL revelation that Churchianity has attempted to MASH into being "all the same" and that is your problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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  11. #383
    Over 3000 post club turbosixx's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Cross Reference;5142889]
    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post

    No, you don't.


    That's a lie.


    You mean Greek translated into English, correct? I agree.



    That is further evidence yu DON"T believe the KJV, "face value" by insinuating it is poor grammar.



    Neither does my Yak shepherd friend in lower Siberia who reveals his love to God from a pure heart plus nothing.

    I have Strongs and other qualified helps that don't seek to cast a shadow on what has been accepted for humdreds of years if not, thousands of years as the truth of it all.



    Only in your elitist, prideful, heart.
    I'm sorry but just because I don't believe you doesn't mean I don't believe God's word. You have not shown me using the context that the 120 were baptized with the Holy Spirit. PLEASE use the context to show me where I've gone astray. All you have given me is you're opinion.

    Let's try this. Here is what you propose looks like.

    Acts 1:1 In the first book, O Theophilus, I have dealt with all that Jesus began to do and teach, 2 until the day when he was taken up, after he had given commands through the Holy Spirit to the apostles whom he had chosen. 3 He presented himself alive to them (apostles) after his suffering by many proofs, appearing to them during forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God.
    13 And when they (apostles) had entered, they (apostles) went up to the upper room, where they (apostles) were staying, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot and Judas the son of James. 14 All these (apostles) with one accord were devoting themselves (apostles) to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers. 15 In those days Peter stood up among the brothers (the company of persons was in all about 120) and said,
    So now we see the 120 mentioned. Based on what YOU say, the pronouns following are now the 120.

    16 “Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus. 17 For he was numbered among us (120) and was allotted his share in this ministry.”
    There were 120 chosen? Not according to verse 2.

    18 (Now this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness, and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out. 19 And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the field was called in their own language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.) 20 “For it is written in the Book of Psalms,
    “‘May his camp become desolate,
    and let there be no one to dwell in it’;
    and
    “‘Let another take his office.’
    21 So one of the men who have accompanied us (120) during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us (120) , 22 beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us (120) —one of these men must become with us (120) a witness to his resurrection.”

    If the 120 are chosen and numbered, why would they chose from the 120 to add to the 120?
    23 And they (120) put forward two, Joseph called Barsabbas, who was also called Justus, and Matthias. 24 And they (120) prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which one of these two you have chosen 25 to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.”

    Apostleship, there were 120 apostles?

    26 And they (120) cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthias, and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

    Using the 120 doesn't make sense.
    Wretched man that I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Mid-Acts Dispensationalists do NOT deny that they both taught SOME things in common. Paul did NOT receive revelation that contradicted what came BEFORE and he 100% CONFIRMED it.

    But Paul was given ADDITIONAL revelation that Churchianity has attempted to MASH into being "all the same" and that is your problem.
    Please point out the additional. I see no additional.
    Wretched man that I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    Please point out the additional. I see no additional.
    Of course you don't. You already have your story and you're going to stick to it no matter what.

    That you cannot understand the difference of Christ choosing 12 on earth when He was ministering to Israel and choosing one after His ascension when Israel was blinded in part is par for the course with Churchianity.

    God is not through with Israel (Romans 11). The dispensation of the grace of God is a limited time offer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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  15. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Of course you don't. You already have your story and you're going to stick to it no matter what.

    That you cannot understand the difference of Christ choosing 12 on earth when He was ministering to Israel and choosing one after His ascension when Israel was blinded in part is par for the course with Churchianity.

    God is not through with Israel (Romans 11). The dispensation of the grace of God is a limited time offer.
    Did Jesus nail the old covenant to the cross?
    Wretched man that I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    Did Jesus nail the old covenant to the cross?
    You don't even read what I write. You're just so anxious to get back to your Churchianity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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  18. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    You don't even read what I write. You're just so anxious to get back to your Churchianity.
    I read it but sometimes it takes us away from what we're talking about.

    You said,
    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post

    Pentecost was a continuation of God's dealing with Israel. It was a lawfully required feast day, after which they continued to keep the law.
    So based on this reply, I can better understand you if I know what your stance is on did Jesus nail the old covenant to the cross.
    Wretched man that I am.

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    [QUOTE=turbosixx;5142915]
    Quote Originally Posted by Cross Reference View Post

    I'm sorry but just because I don't believe you doesn't mean I don't believe God's word. You have not shown me using the context that the 120 were baptized with the Holy Spirit. PLEASE use the context to show me where I've gone astray. All you have given me is you're opinion.

    Let's try this. Here is what you propose looks like.

    Acts 1:1 In the first book, O Theophilus, I have dealt with all that Jesus began to do and teach, 2 until the day when he was taken up, after he had given commands through the Holy Spirit to the apostles whom he had chosen. 3 He presented himself alive to them (apostles) after his suffering by many proofs, appearing to them during forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God.
    13 And when they (apostles) had entered, they (apostles) went up to the upper room, where they (apostles) were staying, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot and Judas the son of James. 14 All these (apostles) with one accord were devoting themselves (apostles) to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers. 15 In those days Peter stood up among the brothers (the company of persons was in all about 120) and said,
    So now we see the 120 mentioned. Based on what YOU say, the pronouns following are now the 120.

    16 “Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus. 17 For he was numbered among us (120) and was allotted his share in this ministry.”
    There were 120 chosen? Not according to verse 2.

    18 (Now this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness, and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out. 19 And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the field was called in their own language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.) 20 “For it is written in the Book of Psalms,
    “‘May his camp become desolate,
    and let there be no one to dwell in it’;
    and
    “‘Let another take his office.’
    21 So one of the men who have accompanied us (120) during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us (120) , 22 beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us (120) —one of these men must become with us (120) a witness to his resurrection.”

    If the 120 are chosen and numbered, why would they chose from the 120 to add to the 120?
    23 And they (120) put forward two, Joseph called Barsabbas, who was also called Justus, and Matthias. 24 And they (120) prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which one of these two you have chosen 25 to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.”

    Apostleship, there were 120 apostles?

    26 And they (120) cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthias, and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

    Using the 120 doesn't make sense.
    Seek to be born again and you will see that it does make sense. Mathias is irrelevant. We might suppose Christ had Paul in mind and the 12 acted presumptiusly. Your Greek would never suggest such a thing. However, The Holy Spirit might and we have every reason to believe for Paul instead of Mathias.
    "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cross Reference View Post

    Seek to be born again and you will see that it does make sense.
    I would go into what it means to be born again but I'm sure you wouldn't use the context of God's word there either.

    Thanks for talking with me
    Wretched man that I am.

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