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Thread: Moment of Salvation Compared to Water Baptism

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    TOL Legend God's Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cross Reference View Post
    Well, hug him, er, his word, more.

    Argh, you are so, um, funny? ugh
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cross Reference View Post
    So it was that Paul received (2) baptisms and (1) infilling. . . . jusr like what happened at the house of Cornielus, Acts 10. cf Acts 19 and the account of the disciples of John.
    2 baptisms creates a dilemma. Paul said there's one.

    Eph. 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
    Wretched man that I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    When you keep preaching no one can be saved before a water baptism
    I only know what the bible tells me.

    After all Paul had done, did he still have his sins before water baptism?
    Acts 22:16 And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.

    In Romans Paul says this about baptism.
    6:3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
    When he says "all of us who" that leaves out everyone that hasn't been baptized.
    Last edited by turbosixx; December 7th, 2017 at 06:40 PM.
    Wretched man that I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    Hi and the Acts 22:16 is RECAPITULATION of what happened in Acts 9:6 !!

    Paul called Jesus KURIOS / LORD and the second Paul called Jesus Lord , Paul called Jesus Lord BY THE HOLY SPIRIT !

    1 Cor 12:3 is very clear that NO ONE calls Jesus Lord EXCEPT by the Holy Spirit !!

    In Acts 9:17 , Ananias says , ' Has sent me so that you might recover sight , and might be FULL OF HOLY SPIRIT !!

    In verse 18 , " INSTANTLY , and having stood up he was BAPTIZO / GIVEN , Holy Spirit !!

    In Phil 3:7 under the Law , FAULTLESS !!

    dan p

    dan p
    Baptizo doesn't mean given. You'll have to direct me to where you get that information before I believe that. It means to submerge.

    It's the same Greek word used when Peter commands that Cornelius be water baptized after they had received the Holy Spirit. So it can't be Holy Spirit baptism. Peter even calls it water.

    Why would the Holy Spirit be waiting on Paul because Ananias say "why do YOU delay".
    After all Paul had done receiving his sight and being filled with the Holy Spirit, what does the inspired word tell us. Wash away your sins. He still had his sins.
    22:16 And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’
    Wretched man that I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    Baptizo doesn't mean given. You'll have to direct me to where you get that information before I believe that. It means to submerge.

    It's the same Greek word used when Peter commands that Cornelius be water baptized after they had received the Holy Spirit. So it can't be Holy Spirit baptism. Peter even calls it water.

    Why would the Holy Spirit be waiting on Paul because Ananias say "why do YOU delay".
    After all Paul had done receiving his sight and being filled with the Holy Spirit, what does the inspired word tell us. Wash away your sins. He still had his sins.
    22:16 And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’

    Hi and where did VINE dictionary get the word SUBMERGE ?

    Is Vine's words INSPIRED ?

    Any one can use a word that BEST describes what the Greek means !!

    Give a meaning to BAPTISMA translated BAPTISM in Eph 4:5 and in Rom 6:4 and in Acts 19;4 where Baptizo and BAPTISMA are both used !!

    How about DIVERS WASHING where the Greek word is BAPTISMOS , what does that mean ??

    How about 1 Cor 10:2 , where thsy were BAPTIZED , UNTO Moses , in the CLOUD and in the SEA , and what word for BAPTISM will you use HERE ??

    dan p

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    Hi and where did VINE dictionary get the word SUBMERGE ?
    From the English language and it's not even close to given.

    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    Is Vine's words INSPIRED ?
    No but neither are you.

    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    Any one can use a word that BEST describes what the Greek means !!
    Anyone can but I would not trust just anyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    in Acts 19;4 where Baptizo and BAPTISMA are both used !!
    One is a noun talking about John's and the other is a verb talking about doing it. To the best of my knowledge of the top of my head.
    G907 and G908

    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    How about DIVERS WASHING where the Greek word is BAPTISMOS , what does that mean ??
    baptismos: (the act of) a dipping or washing
    Original Word: βαπτισμός, οῦ, ὁ
    Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
    Transliteration: baptismos
    Phonetic Spelling: (bap-tis-mos')
    Short Definition: dipping, washing
    Definition: dipping, washing (of a ceremonial character).

    These are referring to the old law, not in the name of Jesus.

    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    How about 1 Cor 10:2 , where thsy were BAPTIZED , UNTO Moses , in the CLOUD and in the SEA , and what word for BAPTISM will you use HERE ??

    dan p
    They were submerged under water by the cloud and the sea.
    Wretched man that I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    From the English language and it's not even close to given.

    No but neither are you.


    Anyone can but I would not trust just anyone.


    One is a noun talking about John's and the other is a verb talking about doing it. To the best of my knowledge of the top of my head.
    G907 and G908


    baptismos: (the act of) a dipping or washing
    Original Word: βαπτισμός, οῦ, ὁ
    Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
    Transliteration: baptismos
    Phonetic Spelling: (bap-tis-mos')
    Short Definition: dipping, washing
    Definition: dipping, washing (of a ceremonial character).

    These are referring to the old law, not in the name of Jesus.


    They were submerged under water by the cloud and the sea.

    Hi and in Ex 14:22 and Israel went upon DRY ground and the ONLY one to get SUBMERGED IN WATER were the Egyptians , who pursed Israel , so much for SUBMERGED !!

    Your words how was Israel SUBMERGED ??

    When you get ready , tell me what Acts 19:4 means , when it uses BAPTIZED 2 times , and are they the same word ?

    dan p

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    I only know what the bible tells me.

    After all Paul had done, did he still have his sins before water baptism?
    Acts 22:16 And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’

    In Romans Paul says this about baptism.
    6:3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
    When he says "all of us who" that leaves out everyone that hasn't been baptized.
    Those scriptures do not say Cornelius and his whole household are liars.
    Last edited by God's Truth; December 7th, 2017 at 10:36 PM.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    Hi and in Ex 14:22 and Israel went upon DRY ground and the ONLY one to get SUBMERGED IN WATER were the Egyptians , who pursed Israel , so much for SUBMERGED !!

    Your words how was Israel SUBMERGED ??

    When you get ready , tell me what Acts 19:4 means , when it uses BAPTIZED 2 times , and are they the same word ?

    dan p
    Yes, they were on dry ground but Paul says twice they were under the cloud and in the sea. That is totally covered with water.
    For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
    Why would Paul make this point?


    In Acts 19, John baptized(verb G907) with baptism(noun G908).
    Wretched man that I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    2 baptisms creates a dilemma. Paul said there's one.

    Eph. 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
    No dilemna. I asked you to review Acts 10 and 11 and Acts 19:1-5 for understanding. You apparently didn't do that.

    So a gain: Paul experienced (2) baptisms. Compare Acts 19:1-5 KJV to understand the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and how is was administered by the laying of hands by Paul and to understand that that is how Paul received it from Ananius befroe Ananius baptized him with water. Compare this also with the account with Peter, who didn't lay his hands on them, at the house of Cornielus to see (2) baptisms which he had a hard time explaining to those back in Jerusalem because Cornielus and co., were all Gentiles..
    "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Those scriptures do not say Cornelius and he whole household are liars.
    I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this statement.

    I will assume you don't agree with the ones I posted because it contradicts what you see in the situation with Cornelius.?

    If that's the case then you have to reconcile it somehow. How do you make both true?
    Wretched man that I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    Yes, they were on dry ground but Paul says twice they were under the cloud and in the sea. That is totally covered with water.
    For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
    Why would Paul make this point?


    In Acts 19, John baptized(verb G907) with baptism(noun G908).
    Hi and how were they BAPTIZO into Moses ??

    In Acts 19:4 and indedd John BAPTIZED / BAPTISMA wit a BAPTISM / BAPTIZO OF REPENTABCE !!

    First this is water baptism by John , verse 3 !!

    This BAPTISM was with WATER / HUDOR !!

    This baptism was for Israel !!

    The Greek word BAPTISMA means a BAPTIZER and there have only been 2 BAPTIZERS / BAPTISMA John and the HOLY SPIRIT !!

    You are wrong on all of your Posts !!

    And where you asked why GIVEN , you can also use the word PLACED !!

    dan p

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cross Reference View Post
    No dilemna. I asked you to review Acts 10 and 11 and Acts 19:1-5 for understanding. You apparently didn't do that.

    So a gain: Paul experienced (2) baptisms. Compare Acts 19:1-5 KJV to understand the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and how is was administered by the laying of hands by Paul and to understand that that is how Paul received it from Ananius befroe Ananius baptized him with water. Compare this also with the account with Peter, who didn't lay his hands on them, at the house of Cornielus to see (2) baptisms which he had a hard time explaining to those back in Jerusalem because Cornielus and co., were all Gentiles..
    No need to review I'm quite familiar with them. I have looked at this hard because I want to understand the truth.

    I would politely suggest that in Acts 19 you are calling the laying of hands a baptism when the bible does not. It say "the Holy Spirit came on them". The bible calls Cornelius being baptism with the Holy Spirit baptism but not in Acts 19. No where in scripture is receiving the Holy Spirit by laying of hands called a baptism.

    If we look at Acts 2:38 it says "be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit"
    One baptism but a giving of the Holy Spirit.
    Wretched man that I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    Hi and how were they BAPTIZO into Moses ??
    Paul said it, not me.

    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    In Acts 19:4 and indedd John BAPTIZED / BAPTISMA wit a BAPTISM / BAPTIZO OF REPENTABCE !!

    First this is water baptism by John , verse 3 !!


    This BAPTISM was with WATER / HUDOR !!
    I'm with you so far.

    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    This baptism was for Israel !!
    This where you lose me. It was for everyone. Was the jailer Israel? Cornelius?

    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    The Greek word BAPTISMA means a BAPTIZER
    No it doesn't. Please reference where you got this information.

    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    And where you asked why GIVEN , you can also use the word PLACED !!

    dan p
    Again, Please reference where you got this information.
    Wretched man that I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbosixx View Post
    Paul said it, not me.


    I'm with you so far.


    This where you lose me. It was for everyone. Was the jailer Israel? Cornelius?


    No it doesn't. Please reference where you got this information.


    Again, Please reference where you got this information.


    Hi and where do think WHERE VINE'S got his ?

    When a Greek can not be translated , it is what is called TRANSLITERATION !!

    And MOST GREEK words have more than one MEANING !!

    You NEED to do more STUDYING !!

    The Greek word BAPTISM , and the are , BAPTO , BAPTIZO , BAPTIMA , BAPTISMLS and you can use 12 ways to translate them !!

    The Greek word CHARIS / GRACE also has 12 different ways to translate it !!

    Get a Greek book or use google !!

    dan p

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