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Thread: Shooting at First Baptist Church in Texas

  1. #91
    Over 500 post club everready's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by This Charming Manc View Post
    evil, barbaric, senseless, slaughter, meaningless, vicious, repugnant ... do I need to add more?
    Who do you think is inciting the people to act this way?

    You have been taught to insidiously plant the seeds of jealousy and hatred between communities, provinces, states that were at peace, and incite them to deeds of blood, involving them in war with each other, and to create revolutions and civil wars in countries that were independent and prosperous, cultivating the arts and the sciences and enjoying the blessings of peace. To take sides with the combatants and to act secretly with your brother _ _ _ _ _ _, who might be engaged on the other side, but openly opposed to that with which you might be connected, only that the _ _ _ _ _ _ might be the gainer in the end, in the conditions fixed in the treaties for peace and that the end justifies the means.

    everready
    John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

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    Over 1000 post club exminister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    So, your argument is, as I see it, that we need to destroy the Constitution to protect ourselves. We need to place ourselves within the confines of a totally benevolent dictatorship to be safe, as if such a thing as a completely benevolent dictatorship exists. Ask the Venezualens, Cubans, Chinese, North Koreans, etc... if you don't believe me. My question is, at what cost safety? To me, liberty is worth far, far more than safety. Nothing can ever guarantee us safety, so why give away liberty in an attempt to gain a mirage? To me the tradeoff is simply unacceptable. I know what it's like to live in a dictatorship. I grew up in one in which one person's word was law, and woe betide you if you crossed that will no matter how unintentionally.

    Liberty of conscience, liberty of thought, liberty of action, liberty to protect yourself is worth far more than the alternative. It's like comparing diamonds to mud.
    How reactive. How is it you see others as diametrically opposed to you if they question what you say? Do you have a big need to brand and pigeon-hole others? I identified myself already as a gun owner,a 22 rifle. I have had a number of other guns as well. 32m handgun was the largest, but I have fired a variety of guns at shooting ranges. Nothing wrong there.

    Do you think felons should have guns? They can't vote. Do you think we should not have background checks?

    Do you think criminally insane should have a gun?

    Do you think a man who spent a year in military jail for beating his wife and her child should own a gun?

    How does limiting gun ownership to responsible citizens destroying the Constitution? I am not reading in the 2nd amendment every lunatic and criminal has the right to own a gun.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2nd Amendment
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
    Proverbs 17:19 Whoever loves a quarrel loves sin

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgarden View Post

    I continue to be appalled as to the number of conservative Christians who are the most ardent supporters of the NRA agenda - including the proliferation of assault weapons!
    I continue to be appalled as to the number of weenies that always expect someone else to protect them instead of taking some responsibility yourselves.
    There is not anything that a law enforcement officer could have done at that church than you could have done yourself.
    It only took one neighbor with a gun and willing to use it that sent the murderer on the run.
    No telling how many more would have lost their lives if everyone just waited for official responders to show up.
    Stop blaming the 2nd amendment for you being such a weenie.

    God Bless America

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  5. #94
    Over 4000 post club Nihilo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by This Charming Manc View Post
    evil, barbaric, senseless, slaughter, meaningless, vicious, repugnant ... do I need to add more?
    Sure, murderous, wicked, barbarous, vile, cowardly, wrong, gravely immoral, antisocial, just any word that you could describe abortion on demand with, yes. None of these words is working, as a WORD. TERRORISM as a word does work, because we already know how to think wrt acts of terror, and all we need to do is start thinking in this way, when these acts of terrorism occur. We're stumbling and bumbling around for how to respond to these attacks, and we just have to identify it as terrorism and we'll "figger" it out. But we have to acknowledge it as terrorism so we can make sense of the senseless slaughter (two of your words).

    Unfortunately, we know they will continue, it's not right now reasonable to believe the terror attacks will stop, because we're in the middle of a war with terrorists of all stripes. This is the most frightening enemy army we've ever faced, because they're like drones, zombies, unorganized, no purpose, no moral limits, impossible to detect right now, and they are among US.

    You people have made your choice in your own war with this walking dead army. You caved, to make them stop attacking you. You gave in, and they've definitely taken a break, because you caved, and now you're stripped of freedom that your forbears possessed. I estimate that you'll reverse that choice, and that when you do, it will be too little too late, and a very sad day indeed for your home kingdom. So I hope you don't wait that long, for all of your sakes.

    You don't think the terrorists went away, do you? They're still there with you. They'll kill you just as soon as look at you, we know, tragically, from experience.
    THE LORD JESUS CHRIST IS RISEN. Matthew 28:6 (KJV) Mark 16:6 (KJV) Luke 24:6 (KJV)

    Romans 10:9 (KJV) 1st Corinthians 15:14 (KJV)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    So, your argument is, as I see it, that we need to destroy the Constitution to protect ourselves. We need to place ourselves within the confines of a totally benevolent dictatorship to be safe, as if such a thing as a completely benevolent dictatorship exists. Ask the Venezualens, Cubans, Chinese, North Koreans, etc... if you don't believe me. My question is, at what cost safety? To me, liberty is worth far, far more than safety. Nothing can ever guarantee us safety, so why give away liberty in an attempt to gain a mirage? To me the tradeoff is simply unacceptable. I know what it's like to live in a dictatorship. I grew up in one in which one person's word was law, and woe betide you if you crossed that will no matter how unintentionally.

    Liberty of conscience, liberty of thought, liberty of action, liberty to protect yourself is worth far more than the alternative. It's like comparing diamonds to mud.

    God Bless America

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    Really is that the tone of someone 'Mature in the Lord'?

    Texas has highest rates of gun ownership and some of the least restrictive gun laws in the world. Yet 26 people including women and children were murdered before the armed citizens were able to respond. Were they weenies?

    This is hardly a month after 58 people were gunned down at a country music show in Vegas. Were they weenies for not taking assault rifles to a music concert?

    Maybe the answer is less guns not more guns, maybe im wrong but cant we debate whhtout insulting each other ?

    We both profess a faith which has a tradition of not responding to violence with violence.

    Was Stephen a weenie? Or Peter? or Paul? or James? or any of those other unnamed martyrs of first century who refused to defend themselves?

    What about Jesus, what would you call him? Should he not of have defended himself? Was he being a weenie when he tells us to turn the other cheek?


    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    I continue to be appalled as to the number of weenies that always expect someone else to protect them instead of taking some responsibility yourselves.
    There is not anything that a law enforcement officer could have done at that church than you could have done yourself.
    It only took one neighbor with a gun and willing to use it that sent the murderer on the run.
    No telling how many more would have lost their lives if everyone just waited for official responders to show up.
    Stop blaming the 2nd amendment for you being such a weenie.
    SJKW Extraordinaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    1. An AR-15 which the general public can buy off the shelf is not an assualt rifle. Assault rifles are legal for only law enforcement, intelligence, and military personell.

    2. Why shouldn't conservative Christian's be in favor of liberty? To me it seems to be a no-brainer. Our Constitution is the only protection we have to worship as we please, to speak our minds freely, and to follow the dictates of our own consciences. And yet you seemingly advocate that we give all that up, for once the Constitution is invalidated in one area it is much easier to invalidate in another area. It is a very slippery slope once that road is entered.

    3. Liberty is only achieved through blood shed. History teaches us that. Ask the Anglo-Saxons. Ask the Dutch. Ask the Belgians. Ask the French. Ask the Finns. Ask Americans. Ask the Poles. Ask any nation or people that has throughout history had to fight to become a free nation. And, liberty is only maintained at the price of blood and suffering too. Even those nations who became free without violence only had that chance because others who came before them had died for their own liberty, and as such passed that liberty on to others when the time came, rather than making them shed blood. The desire to enslave/control others has lived within the hearts of man ever since the fall of Adam and Eve. It is a part of human nature that we cannot escape through wishful thinking. And, it is encouraged by our great enemy, the devil. It is one of the fundamental principles of his kingdom, and he is the prince of this world.


    The NRA's version of Creation!

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    Over 4000 post club Nihilo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    I continue to be appalled as to the number of weenies that always expect someone else to protect them instead of taking some responsibility yourselves.
    There is not anything that a law enforcement officer could have done at that church than you could have done yourself.
    It only took one neighbor with a gun and willing to use it that sent the murderer on the run.
    No telling how many more would have lost their lives if everyone just waited for official responders to show up.
    Stop blaming the 2nd amendment for you being such a weenie.
    You could have done it yourself especially with a rifle; it's much easier to shoot accurately (the only just reason for gun control) with a rifle than with any handgun, even while under the influence of epinephrine/adrenaline. Plus any rifle is easily accurate out to 100 yards, and most people can hit a person from 150 yards or more with a decent site and a little patience and discipline, and many people can be accurate out to 500 yards or more with good optics and a good gauge of the wind. Handguns can be accurate only in the hands of the very best shooters at those ranges, trick shot type shooters, while most people couldn't rely upon it to stop a person from much beyond 50 yards, and within 20 yards is really where most people would need to be aiming to hit a person reliably.
    THE LORD JESUS CHRIST IS RISEN. Matthew 28:6 (KJV) Mark 16:6 (KJV) Luke 24:6 (KJV)

    Romans 10:9 (KJV) 1st Corinthians 15:14 (KJV)

    Trevor: "I know how to drive, man."
    Ricky: "You also know how to be stupid."

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    Quote Originally Posted by This Charming Manc View Post
    I feel safe at every church I attend because I know there is virtually no chance that man will burst in with evil intent armed with an assault rifle and dressed in body armour.

    In a country with 300,000,000 guns in personal possession, I understand the feeling of wanting good men round with guns to keep you safe.

    But I feel and stats show i am safer in a country with virtually no guns in public ownership.
    Have you ever borne arms? Have you ever been armed? Military, police? As a civilian?
    THE LORD JESUS CHRIST IS RISEN. Matthew 28:6 (KJV) Mark 16:6 (KJV) Luke 24:6 (KJV)

    Romans 10:9 (KJV) 1st Corinthians 15:14 (KJV)

    Trevor: "I know how to drive, man."
    Ricky: "You also know how to be stupid."

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    Down there with them spiders musterion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by This Charming Manc View Post
    Looked in the mirror lately?
    My country has not allowed itself to be almost entirely disarmed and so longs for any other country not disarmed to be as equally helpless. Especially in the midst of an imported invasion.
    Not a single cluster of living fruit was, or ever will be, harvested from the tree of legality. Law can only produce “dead works,” from which we need to have conscience purged just as much as from “wicked works.”

    C. H. Mackintosh


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    Quote Originally Posted by jgarden View Post


    The NRA's version of Creation!
    All I can say to that is: Wow. What a refutation. What reliance on facts and logic.

    Sorry, but I just couldn't hold back the sarcasm after a response like that. It seems the only reply you were capable of was an adhominen response.

  14. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgarden View Post


    The NRA's version of Creation!
    You bet your censored that when the Nazis invented the assault rifle (German sturmgewehr; storm-rifle), it was a big day in history! Yes sir. Or ma'am, as the case may be.
    THE LORD JESUS CHRIST IS RISEN. Matthew 28:6 (KJV) Mark 16:6 (KJV) Luke 24:6 (KJV)

    Romans 10:9 (KJV) 1st Corinthians 15:14 (KJV)

    Trevor: "I know how to drive, man."
    Ricky: "You also know how to be stupid."

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    Quote Originally Posted by exminister View Post
    How reactive. How is it you see others as diametrically opposed to you if they question what you say? Do you have a big need to brand and pigeon-hole others? I identified myself already as a gun owner,a 22 rifle. I have had a number of other guns as well. 32m handgun was the largest, but I have fired a variety of guns at shooting ranges. Nothing wrong there.

    Do you think felons should have guns? They can't vote. Do you think we should not have background checks?

    Do you think criminally insane should have a gun?

    Do you think a man who spent a year in military jail for beating his wife and her child should own a gun?

    How does limiting gun ownership to responsible citizens destroying the Constitution? I am not reading in the 2nd amendment every lunatic and criminal has the right to own a gun.
    I'll just respond to what I see as the main idea behind your post.

    The political left will never be satisfied with what you ask for. Maybe you would, but the forces behind the so-called gun control movement? Not a chance. If you really think the left is against violence, poverty, crime, etc... take a look at the cities the left has been in political control of for the last 5 or 6 decades. Those areas are full of violence, poverty, crime, and they are vast seas of hopelessness. If the ideas the left espouses as cures for all these things actually worked, then we would see model cities with little poverty, crime, violence, and a population that is filled with hope. We don't see any of that in those areas. Instead we see the breakdown of the black family structure which leads directly to everything I listed above. Before the so-called "war on poverty" started the percentage of black children born in 2 parent households was far in excess of what it is today. In 1910 more than 2/3 of blacks lived in integrated neighborhoods. From 1890 to 1950 black partiicipation in the labor force was higher, percentage wise, than the white participation rates.

    Where are all of those statistics now? They have sunk through the floor. They are horrendous.

    What follows is a good link to what has actually happened.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/artic...an_family.html

    So, results are what tells the true story of what the left actually wants to accomplish for it is the sure result of everything they promote as good ideas. What they push as "reasonable" gun control will not do what they claim. And their goal is the disarming of the US citizenry for a disarmed citizenry is helpless before a government that is running amok. That is the very reason the 2nd amendment exists. The founding fathers knew there would come a time when the people would have to take back their liberty from those who wanted to control them, rather than serve them as a government is supposed to do.

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  17. #104
    Over 4000 post club Nihilo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by This Charming Manc View Post
    Hi Nihilo,

    Your not wrong to use the word terror, and if it makes you feel in anyway better go ahead.

    I tend to draw the distinction that terrorism is done in pursuit of a cause, however mad or insane the cause is.

    It doesn't seem this chap had a cause or motive beyond hate and personal vendetta.

    I fully understand you wanting to draw maximum attention to heinous nature of his crimes, but I do find the distinction real.

    All the best.
    http://us.cnn.com/2017/11/06/us/what...rnd/index.html

    Bottom line, there's no good reason not to call this Terrorism. Lo:

    even though [another terrorist attack] met some of the criteria, federal authorities never used the terrorism label. Avoiding the label made it easier for them to pursue the death penalty.
    The reason we're not using the WORD TERRORISM is dumb!
    Last edited by Nihilo; November 6th, 2017 at 11:04 PM. Reason: Lo:
    THE LORD JESUS CHRIST IS RISEN. Matthew 28:6 (KJV) Mark 16:6 (KJV) Luke 24:6 (KJV)

    Romans 10:9 (KJV) 1st Corinthians 15:14 (KJV)

    Trevor: "I know how to drive, man."
    Ricky: "You also know how to be stupid."

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    This is the kind of convoluted logic that Trump, the NRA, Republican politicians and their "motley crew" of conservative supporters employ to justify the unjustifiable!

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