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Thread: If Evolution

  1. #511
    Over 2500 post club iouae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Nope. Evidence.
    You have rock solid evidence for Creation?

    Start by explaining the geologic column and why organisms are sorted into layers?
    I am not a prophet, but I am expecting a smart retort, not a smart answer.

    Stop pretending Darwinists have contributed anything useful to this discussion.
    Yes they have. They have provided a foil to your rapier sharp wit.

    So do evolutionists.
    That's what I said - evolutionists too have faith. I see you are new to this reading thing.

    It doesn't matter if something is logical "to" someone; it matters whether it is logical at all.
    Are you chief inspector of the logic police?
    Have you considered that pushing a Book under evolutionist's noses does not constitute evidence to them?

    Show an animal that pops onto the scene suddenly and without forebears, as occurred in the Cambrian explosion - that is the sort of evidence they are looking for. Even then, folks like Barbarian are pretty good at lifting rocks and finding forebears.

    You can't play a rational part in a conversation when your assertions always need so much correcting.
    I don't start a priori insisting that my book "The Holy Bible" is right and your book "On the origin of species" is wrong, when the whole point of the discussion is to prove that. That would be irrational.

    But Stripe, you are not so much into research. Surprise me with some actual science in your answers.
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  2. #512
    Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iouae View Post
    You have rock solid evidence for Creation?
    Literally yes, but not philosophically.

    Start by explaining the geologic column and why organisms are sorted into layers?
    That's not how rocks show creation; that's how they are evidence for the flood.

    Radiometric features are more in line with pointing to creation. Basement rocks and unstable isotopes. That sort of thing.

    Also, astronomy.

    But at the most fundamental level, the most obvious evidence for creation is not in physics, it's in philosophy.

    I am not a prophet.
    Don't worry, nobody would ever accuse you of that.

    That's what I said - evolutionists too have faith. I see you are new to this reading thing.
    You were speaking of faith in something else.

    Are you chief inspector of the logic police?
    That's @Clete.

    I'm his deputy.

    Have you considered that pushing a Book under evolutionist's noses does not constitute evidence to them?
    That's one of the many fatal flaws in the thinking of Darwinists; they reject ideas because of their source. It's called the genetic fallacy.

    I think they are fooled by the name into thinking it's a good thing.

    Show an animal that pops onto the scene suddenly and without forebears, as occurred in the Cambrian explosion - that is the sort of evidence they are looking for. Even then, folks like Barbarian are pretty good at lifting rocks and finding forebears.
    You've bought into the notion that the two competing ideas are equally founded.

    They're not.

    Creationism has logic, philosophy, mathematics, and evidence all going for it. Darwinsm has lots of words, yelling and red faces, but not much else.

    I don't start a priori insisting that my book "The Holy Bible" is right and your book "On the origin of species" is wrong, when the whole point of the discussion is to prove that. That would be irrational.
    I'm not trying to prove anything.

    All I ask is that you present what you believe and defend it rationally while allowing me to do the same.

    But Stripe, you are not so much into research. Surprise me with some actual science in your answers.
    You'll get what you're given and like it, otherwise, take a hike.
    Last edited by Stripe; January 13th, 2018 at 01:52 AM.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    When the world is a monster
    Bad to swallow you whole
    Kick the clay that holds the teeth in
    Throw your trolls out the door

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.

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  4. #513
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    http://potiphar.jongarvey.co.uk/2014...fossil-record/

    Worth a read on whether finding the fossils is the problem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    All I ask is that you present what you believe and defend it rationally while allowing me to do the same.



    You'll get what you're given and like it, otherwise, take a hike.
    So which is it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by iouae View Post
    So which is it?
    Whichever you choose.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    When the world is a monster
    Bad to swallow you whole
    Kick the clay that holds the teeth in
    Throw your trolls out the door

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Whichever you choose.
    I choose the first option,
    Originally Posted by Stripe
    All I ask is that you present what you believe and defend it rationally while allowing me to do the same.
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    io,dealing with Stripe is pointless. He is a troll. He will resort to emojis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonahdog View Post
    io,dealing with Stripe is pointless. He is a troll. He will resort to emojis.


    Wake us up when you have something of value to contribute.

    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    When the world is a monster
    Bad to swallow you whole
    Kick the clay that holds the teeth in
    Throw your trolls out the door

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Stripe For Your Post:

    Tambora (January 13th, 2018)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post


    Wake us up when you have something of value to contribute.

    Oh Stripey, I'm still waiting for you to explain the physics/"Darwinist" issue you raised in the Ark/speciation thread.
    Think you could manage that? Contribute something of value there?

  13. #520
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    From http://potiphar.jongarvey.co.uk/2014...fossil-record/

    3 – Historical tests of the completeness of the fossil record

    In natural history fieldwork, the “collector curve” is often used to indicate how close to complete ones work is, as new discoveries will begin to tail off. ....
    .... Benton gives similar graphs on dinosaur discoveries:


    Fig09.jpegOne can see that in the old European collecting grounds, the graph is near saturation, whereas in the less-studied Chinese beds, there is still a steep curve, with a levelling of uncertain significance only in the last decade or two. It is fair, though, to predict that some time in this century the Chinese graph will match the European, and that other areas will follow suit (presumably Antarctica being the last to yield its unique species).

    This means that we can be pretty certain that we are now aware of most European dinosaur species that have left fossils.


    It is my opinion that the strongest evidence against evolution is encapsulated in graphs such as the above.

    What we see with fossil hunting is that at first finds are slow, then they pick up pace, then the curve flattens out as no new dinosaur fossil species are found.

    That last sentence in italics above shows that we have [nearly] the complete fossil record of European dinosaurs. And do European dinosaurs have most missing links filled in? Absolutely not. The graph is SHOUTING at us that the chances of further missing links being found is nearly zero. We have almost all we are going to have.

    This being the case, are we satisfied that evolution occurred, since dinosaurs occur as different animals, with NOT ONE SINGLE DINOSAUR HAVING ALL ITS MISSING LINKS. Most of the dinosaur record is ghost lineages. And the graph is telling us it will stay that way.

    And the same applies to all fossils. The Chinese dinosaur record is rapidly becoming the same as the European one with the flattened top of the "S" shaped curve appearing.

    All fossil records follow the same curve.

    This is strong evidence that these dinosaurs were created as individual species.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iouae View Post
    All fossil records follow the same curve.

    This is strong evidence that these dinosaurs were created as individual species.
    Wow, you should be teaching this at a major university, or at least be publishing in "Science".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonahdog View Post
    Wow, you should be teaching this at a major university, or at least be publishing in "Science".
    Thanks Jonahdog.

    I am no prophet but I think the evolutionists are soon going to be invoking their god Taphonomy

    taphonomy
    taˈfɒnəmi
    noun
    the branch of palaeontology that deals with the processes of fossilization.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonahdog View Post
    Oh Stripey, I'm still waiting for you to explain the physics/"Darwinist" issue you raised in the Ark/speciation thread.
    Think you could manage that? Contribute something of value there?
    Already done, Dum Dum. Try reading.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    When the world is a monster
    Bad to swallow you whole
    Kick the clay that holds the teeth in
    Throw your trolls out the door

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iouae View Post
    This is strong evidence that these dinosaurs were created as individual species.
    Could it also be used as evidence that fossils are hard to make and rare to find? Thus be compatible with a methodological naturalism world view?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4string View Post
    Could it also be used as evidence that fossils are hard to make and rare to find? Thus be compatible with a methodological naturalism world view?
    Hi 4string. That would be to play the taphonology card which says that fossils are rare to make and rarer to find.

    Even if that were so, (which I absolutely disagree with, but have not thought of how to prove it), then the fossil record is what it is. So let's look at what it is as if we have a nearly mature set of data. Does the evidence support creation or evolution?

    Large ghost lineages (lots of missing fossil links) support creation.
    Small or few ghost lineages support evolution.

    The fossil record, if one looks at any tree of life, is mostly ghost lineages, therefore it settles it for me.

    Evolutionists will insist that with time more and new fossils will come in. And they are right. But look at the graph and the rate they are coming in. It would take forever to fill in the ghost lineages at the current rate, so they will never, in many lifetimes, "prove" evolution.

    Evolutionists have faith in finding missing links, but if the science says it will take forever to find these if they exist, maybe they should reject methodological naturalism (which is a strategy for studying the world, by which scientists choose not to consider supernatural causes - even as a remote possibility. ).

    Ps. Here may be why fossils are not as rare as evolutionists make them out to be.

    Some fossils are found in huge numbers of the exact same species.
    Why can we not find just one missing link fossil?

    Are we saying that animals went through their missing link stages very quickly and in small numbers which so reduced the chances of finding missing links?

    I see absolutely no mechanism to suggest any life form today is a "missing link", hurrying to extinction, without leaving a trace of it being here on earth.

    I believe that fossils are more likely captured by some catastrophe which captures a snapshot of all creatures around at the time of the catastrophe. Luckily for us, the geologic column is full of catastrophes and mass extinctions capturing fossils.

    But normal life has means of capturing fossils on an ongoing basis. Means such as mudslides and amber resin, and tar pits, volcanic eruptions burying things in ash. Most species of dinosaurs were around for 75 million years according to evolutionists, and are they telling us that NOT ONE of the missing links got fossilised, while thousands of their kin were being fossilised?

    And if one is a YEC and does not like mention of long periods of geologic time, remember this is what evolutionists believe. Those long periods of time mean lots of time for JUST ONE missing link to get fossilised and found.
    Last edited by iouae; January 13th, 2018 at 04:03 PM.
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